Third Blackfyre Rebellion: Who Dishonorably Killed Haegon?

[Bael's Bastard]

Feel free to discuss any aspect of this rebellion. But within that topic, who do you think dishonorably killed Haegon?

Is it conceivable that Bloodraven had already committed and escaped punishment for such a killing before the shenanigans all those years later with Aenys in 233?

I tend to think that Aerion killed Haegon, and that this may be what the World book is alluding to when it refers to "the actions of Aerion Brightflame."

Maybe some other candidate out of left field? Would Bittersteel kill Haegon to avoid the hostage situation that prevented him from crowning Haegon for almost a decade?

 

[The Grey Wolf]

2 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Feel free to discuss any aspect of this rebellion. But within that topic, who do you think dishonorably killed Haegon?

Is it conceivable that Bloodraven had already committed and escaped punishment for such a killing before the shenanigans all those years later with Aenys in 233?

I tend to think that Aerion killed Haegon, and that this may be what the World book is alluding to when it refers to "the actions of Aerion Brightflame."

Maybe some other candidate out of left field? Would Bittersteel kill Haegon to avoid the hostage situation that prevented him from crowning Haegon for almost a decade?

 

I personally don't think it was either Aerion or Bloodraven because:

1. Why stop at Haegon? Why not kill Bittersteel too while you're at it?

2. If it was that obvious it would make more sense for the text to just tell us that.

3. Why on earth would either one be allowed to speak at Bittersteel's trial if either one had done that? Seriously, Bloodraven/Aerion's word would be worth literally less than shit at that point.

4. "Actions" imply that Aerion did more than just one bad thing.

[Lord Corlys Velaryon]

@Bael's Bastard I used to be adamant it was Aerion, but now I lean towards that not being the case. Even if the 3rd BfR caused Maekar & Brynden to put aside their differences, possibly even bond, I don't see proto-Stannis making Bloodraven his Hand if he had murdered Haegon in cold blood. Let alone unpunished. And to a lesser degree, Aerion; being summoned to court by his father (perhaps to even serve on the Small Council) when he became king, not being exiled again or anything (afawk), & perhaps being the Prince of Dragonstone depending on when Daeron died. That's an interesting thought wrt Bittersteel, but I really don't see him doing that. Although & by the same token, I do think there's a (very small) chance that he at least attempted to have Daemon the Younger assassinated to free up Haegon for the crown. (Most likely imo, Aegor just crowned Haegon anyway & Daemon died a natural death or Lord Rivers just had him quietly killed, having outlived his purpose).

Given notoriously-disinterested-in-politics Aerys sent the Balon Greyjoy of his day (dude who just keeps rebelling & really should be executed) to the Wall instead of the chopping block, along with how the fuck the likes of the Yronwoods & everyone else (perhaps the Reynes &/or Peakes included) who supported the Black Dragon for the second or third time still retained so much (if losing anything major, land & castle-wise, at all); that not only a Targaryen supporter, but an actual member of their court, was who committed the heinous crime. Perhaps akin to Egg with Bloodraven, Aerys felt he had to show extra leniency & mercy to Bittersteel (& the Blackfyre supporters) because of what one of his men did to Haegon.

@The Grey Wolf Good points. Actually, Aerion's actions need not necessarily be all bad, even considering Yandel's praise for Maekar & Egg. He was most likely both a hero & villain wrt what he did during the war, imo. We know he was a pretty decent fighter, obviously would've had the very best education, & serving in the Second Sons could've tempered him (to some degree) in any number of ways.

[Lord Varys]

I'd go with @The Grey Wolf there, too. We do not know. And we are not supposed to know at this point. There is no reason to believe that the text is giving us 'hints' there as to who was behind that deed.

One assumes that the person behind that is going to turn out to be a person we know - or are going to get to know - during the Dunk & Egg stories. It doesn't have to be a prominent member of House Targaryen, it could be someone in their service, someone who ends up being double-crossed, greatly hurt, or betrayed by the Blackfyres or their followers.

The Third Blackfyre Rebellion should involve much more people than just the guys Yandel mentions. One assumes Dunk is also going to play a role in that one, but if he does we have no idea yet what he is going to do there.

And who knows? Perhaps it is Dunk himself? Say, he captures Haegon and is (falsely?) under the impression that the man commanded the rape/murder of his wife? Or the murder of Egg? What he would do in such a scenario.

I expect Aerion to be an ass and an asset during the Rebellion. It is not unlikely that he is going to save the day in some battle, or at least helping the really good guys to defeat the Blackfyres.

One should also keep in mind that there is no reason to believe that Haegon and Bittersteel are going to be captured in the same battle or by the same people. That could already explain why whoever killed Haegon did not get around to kill Bittersteel, too.

[Lion of the West]

16 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Feel free to discuss any aspect of this rebellion. But within that topic, who do you think dishonorably killed Haegon?

I would think it was some puppet of Bloodraven or Bloodraven himself wearing a glamour that he used to pin the dead on someone else. We know that Bloodraven killed Aenys and wanted Aegor dead. It would certainly not be beyond his capabilites to arrange for Haegon to die.

16 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Is it conceivable that Bloodraven had already committed and escaped punishment for such a killing before the shenanigans all those years later with Aenys in 233?

Very, very possible. He don't pull punches when it comes to the Blackfyres.

16 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I tend to think that Aerion killed Haegon, and that this may be what the World book is alluding to when it refers to "the actions of Aerion Brightflame."

I think that Aerion will play a more conventional role as a battle commander and prominent knight in the rebellion.

16 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Maybe some other candidate out of left field? Would Bittersteel kill Haegon to avoid the hostage situation that prevented him from crowning Haegon for almost a decade?

Nah, I thin that if Aegor did it, it would have been noted as a horrible crime done by Bittersteel. So if Aegor did it, he did it in a smart way to not leave many or any traces leading back to him.

[Lord Corlys Velaryon]

On 11/9/2017 at 11:54 PM, Lord Varys said:

One assumes that the person behind that is going to turn out to be a person we know - or are going to get to know - during the Dunk & Egg stories. It doesn't have to be a prominent member of House Targaryen, it could be someone in their service, someone who ends up being double-crossed, greatly hurt, or betrayed by the Blackfyres or their followers.

Actually, it'd be very interesting if it was say Raymun Fossoway, or someone like him. A Robert Reyne say perhaps, also. Although I'm not sure how or why he would go unpunished, let alone his daughter matched to the heir of Casterly Rock & that same kid made his squire. On the subject, those suggest to me that it's actually very unlikely that the Reynes fought for the Blackfyres again then - I could perhaps see it with the betrothal only in a weird ensure-their-future-support move, but absolutely not with Tywald being made Robert's squire. At best, his heir Roger would've been made Gerold's squire (i.e. ward) & more likely a direct hostage of the Crown, even an outright prisoner if Bloodraven so chose.

On 11/9/2017 at 11:54 PM, Lord Varys said:

The Third Blackfyre Rebellion should involve much more people than just the guys Yandel mentions. One assumes Dunk is also going to play a role in that one, but if he does we have no idea yet what he is going to do there. And who knows? Perhaps it is Dunk himself? Say, he captures Haegon and is (falsely?) under the impression that the man commanded the rape/murder of his wife? Or the murder of Egg? What he would do in such a scenario.

It'll be interesting to see how The Sellsword will work into it all. IIRC, you & others have posited that Dunk may even give us a direct view into the Golden Company, with Bittersteel & Haegon themselves. That's interesting, but I very much doubt Dunk would be the one, though I suppose it is possible.

On 11/9/2017 at 11:54 PM, Lord Varys said:

I expect Aerion to be an ass and an asset during the Rebellion. It is not unlikely that he is going to save the day in some battle, or at least helping the really good guys to defeat the Blackfyres.

@LionoftheWest Wrt your comment on the matter too, I wonder if Aerion may even bring in the Second Sons for the Red Dragon.

On 11/9/2017 at 11:54 PM, Lord Varys said:

One should also keep in mind that there is no reason to believe that Haegon and Bittersteel are going to be captured in the same battle or by the same people. That could already explain why whoever killed Haegon did not get around to kill Bittersteel, too.

Good point. I could definitely see it going either way - Aegor is captured first (perhaps with a separate command elsewhere - he & Fireball seem to have fought separately for much of the First, from Daemon too) & his king continues the fight (not unlikely to try & free him), or the pretender king is taken (could be where he is slain if Bittersteel refused to stand down).

On 11/10/2017 at 2:53 AM, LionoftheWest said:

I would think it was some puppet of Bloodraven or Bloodraven himself wearing a glamour that he used to pin the dead on someone else. We know that Bloodraven killed Aenys and wanted Aegor dead. It would certainly not be beyond his capabilites to arrange for Haegon to die.

I'd actually be surprised if the murderer didn't work for Bloodraven one way or another, but the glamour proposal is very interesting. Of course, such could (& presumably did) explain how he would've seemingly got away from it.