US politics: Alabama Jones and the Temple of Moore

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Lulz. Hoisted on his own petard, and whatnot.

[LongRider]

Assange can't confirm the DM's, but someone can................        

[LongRider]

Now we now why 45 dictated that letter about Jr's Trump Tower meeting with the Russian 'adoption' lawyer.  Jr just can't keep his pie hole shut!  

[Altherion]

@Rippounet

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How "forced to convert" or "driven out" are we talking about? Are you referring to Spain or Eastern Europe? I'm not certain.

As you say, how different the cultures are plays a role. But there's also the fact that many Muslims originally arrived in Europe through military conquests which is kind of a special case. Obviously invaders and refugees aren't seen in the same light.

Both. And yes, invaders and refugees are seen in different light -- but when there are enough refugees, the distinction begins to blur. There's certainly no shortage of Europeans who see the current wave as an invasion rather than a humanitarian crisis.

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Dude, half a century is nothing. And the fact that a black man became the US president since then is extremely encouraging.
In the long-run, integration and tolerance are far stronger than racism. Racism can at best claim temporary victories with -generally- limited consequences. And short of genocide and/or mass deportation, it's actually pretty damn difficult to prevent different peoples from mingling. The idea of a white-ethno-state is a pipe dream. But it's a useful tool for some who benefit from divide-and-conquer strategies (i.e. the 1%).

Half a century is the longest timescale at which I believe one can plausibly claim that one effect is important (and even that's a stretch). If you go back further (e.g. one or two centuries), almost every society on the planet will be practically unrecognizable. It's also roughly the timescale on which other groups became accepted in American society. Remember, discriminatory sentiment was once directed at the Irish, at Germans, at Eastern Europeans and many others... but this effect falls off until it is very difficult to notice within half a century or less. This obviously hasn't happened with certain other groups.

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That is true, and that's the one nuance I would bring to my argument. It's hard to predict how environmental crises will affect population movements -and integration- in the coming decades or centuries. Many conflicts will arise because of this.

The thing about neo-nazism is that it prevents the emerging of class consciousness and indirectly prevents lasting solutions to the global problem of inequality. It's very useful to the "masters of the world" as Chomsky calls them.

Humanism is going to be increasingly precious in the times to come.

Practically everything is useful to them though: divide-and-conquer works even better when there are many divisions. For example, Humanism in its original form is at best studied as a historical movement (and even then not by too many people) and the most popular of its descendants serve the same exact masters.

[maarsen]

59 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Now we now why 45 dictated that letter about Jr's Trump Tower meeting with the Russian 'adoption' lawyer.  Jr just can't keep his pie hole shut!  

It's not just Jr. I still remember Watergate and the shitstorm that was. This... this is a shitstorm cubed. Every incompetent boob in the country seems to be getting his 15 minutes of infamy.

[Kalbear]

Per WaPo it might be tough to expel Moore from the Senate, notably because there's a question of whether or not the Senate has jurisdiction to expel something for things done outside of Senatorial time:

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Consider William Roach, about whom questions were raised in 1893. The allegation against Roach was that he had embezzled money when serving as a bank teller before being elected to the Senate. The Senate declined to investigate.

“After extensive deliberation,” the Senate historian wrote, “the Senate took no action, assuring that it lacked jurisdiction over members’ behavior before their election to the Senate. The alleged embezzlement had occurred 13 years earlier.” (The historian had no dates for Roach’s or Burton Wheeler’s allegations.)

 

 

[Sivin]

2 minutes ago, maarsen said:

It's not just Jr. I still remember Watergate and the shitstorm that was. This... this is a shitstorm cubed. Every incompetent boob in the country seems to be getting his 15 minutes of infamy.

Would you feel confident saying one way or another if that's a result of the modern 24 hour news cycle or because this situation really is that slapdicked? 

[Sivin]

Just now, Kalbear said:

Per WaPo it might be tough to expel Moore from the Senate, notably because there's a question of whether or not the Senate has jurisdiction to expel something for things done outside of Senatorial time:

 

But that's for an offense that had occurred over a decade earlier right? Roy Moore will always be a rapist fucking creep. 

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, WinterFox said:

But that's for an offense that had occurred over a decade earlier right? Roy Moore will always be a rapist fucking creep. 

Being a rapist creep is not something necessarily that the Senate can kick someone out for. 

[Sivin]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

Being a rapist creep is not something necessarily that the Senate can kick someone out for. 

But I really want it! 

[Sivin]

All jokes aside, is anyone else watching CNN right now? 

The reporter who wrote the Atlantic story that broke the Trump Jr.-Wikileaks connection just said that the pages of conversation Jr. released via Twitter omitted a communication in which Wikileaks told Jr. not to let Daddy concede early on election night when HRC had a lead, and to contest the results. 

 

Thats HUGE

[Mudguard]

3 hours ago, Kalbear said:

In other news - Don Jr was in contact with Wikileaks openly for over a year, despite saying he hadn't been and no one in the campaign had been. 

https://shareblue.com/busted-don-jr-emailed-secret-plan-to-collude-with-wikileaks-to-entire-trump-campaign/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/13/16646310/donald-trump-jr-wikileaks-messages?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

Neither article mentions that Don Jr. previously denied being in contact with Wikileaks.  If he lied about it, I would think that these articles would have mentioned it.  Do you have a citation for this?  They've denied collusion with Russia, but being in contact with the Wikileaks twitter account isn't the same as collusion with Russia.

[DanteGabriel]

7 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Neither article mentions that Don Jr. previously denied being in contact with Wikileaks.  If he lied about it, I would think that these articles would have mentioned it.  Do you have a citation for this?  They've denied collusion with Russia, but being in contact with the Wikileaks twitter account isn't the same as collusion with Russia.

They let Mike Pence make false statements about it, because Pence did deny that the campaign was talking to Wikileaks. They also let Pence falsely claim that Flynn never discussed sanctions with the Russians, and that they weren't seeking security clearance for Flynn's idiot son.

That's not to say Pence lied. I think it's likely they kept him in the dark. But the Trump campaign allowed their VP to make multiple false statements with regard to the campaign's involvement with Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/13/pence-trump-wikileaks-russia-244863

[The Anti-Targ]

50 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Being a rapist creep is not something necessarily that the Senate can kick someone out for. 

Nor is it possibly a verdict that can be established in a court of law. At which point, on what basis can the Senate kick Moore out because people know he's a rapist creep but can't establish it as a criminal conviction, and therefore in the eyes of the law he is not a rapist creep?

If the Senate, by some interpretation of he rules, does actually decide to kick him out, does he have recourse to the courts to prevent his kicking on the basis that no crime has been proven in a court of law? Can these consequences be brought to bear on the basis that everyone knows he's a rapist creep, but no one has proven it to a legal standard?

[LongRider]

36 minutes ago, WinterFox said:

All jokes aside, is anyone else watching CNN right now? 

The reporter who wrote the Atlantic story that broke the Trump Jr.-Wikileaks connection just said that the pages of conversation Jr. released via Twitter omitted a communication in which Wikileaks told Jr. not to let Daddy concede early on election night when HRC had a lead, and to contest the results. 

 

Thats HUGE

You mean this one?

 

[Mudguard]

9 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

They let Mike Pence make false statements about it, because Pence did deny that the campaign was talking to Wikileaks. They also let Pence falsely claim that Flynn never discussed sanctions with the Russians, and that they weren't seeking security clearance for Flynn's idiot son.

That's not to say Pence lied. I think it's likely they kept him in the dark. But the Trump campaign allowed their VP to make multiple false statements with regard to the campaign's involvement with Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/13/pence-trump-wikileaks-russia-244863

It's pretty clear that Pence isn't part of Trump's inner circle.  Wonder if he has the spine to confront Trump about constantly being in the dark on these things.

This isn't a great look, but this isn't nearly as bad as it would be if Donald Jr. had lied about his contacts with Wikileaks.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

^^^^^^^

Wow. I guess the whole "Wikileaks is a friend of Democracy" narrative can be put to bed, eh?

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

It's pretty clear that Pence isn't part of Trump's inner circle.  Wonder if he has the spine to confront Trump about constantly being in the dark on these things.

This isn't a great look, but this isn't nearly as bad as it would be if Donald Jr. had lied about his contacts with Wikileaks.  

Pence was picked by Manafort and I would bet he's dirty as hell.

[Mudguard]

5 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

You mean this one?

 

So Don Jr.'s twitter release didn't omit the tweet asking Trump to contest the results and the reporter who wrote the Atlantic story made a false assertion on CNN?

[Mudguard]

3 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Pence was picked by Manafort and I would bet he's dirty as hell.

I'm not sure about that.  I think he might have been picked because he lacked skeletons in his closet and was largely inoffensive to the Republican base.  And Trump has been using him as an earnest, unwitting mouthpiece.  But I haven't read too much about Pence because 99.99% of the focus of the media has been focused on Trump.