The Sunland Lord Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said: No, Robb Stark would not be considered to be Tywin Lannister's son-in-law, nor is Robb any more related to Tywin after the Tyrion/Sansa marriage than he was before that marriage. You're right, thank you. Edited it. Only Sansa is his daughter-in-law. 25 minutes ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:  Tywin's death was provoked entirely by his specific sins against Tyrion, not by any generalized sins against the gods old and new.   I agree, but I was up for a little outside the box thinking on the matter (see Robb killing his distant relative Rickard). He was about to let Tyrion die, didn't kill him though. Of course, the point was - it could be a little story spicery by the author. If this has some sense in it, Tyrion is awaiting to be kinslayed too. And it would turn out to be a never-ending circle of kinslaying, which I honestly hope isn't true. I just speak my mind, and wanted to see other's opinions. Majority are, surprising or not, that Tywin didn't commit an act of kinslaying.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Tywin did nothing wrong  The Starks were asking for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthurman14 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I would constrain the crime of kinslaying to immediate family, killing your parent/child/sibling. Especially given the custom of intermarriage among the nobility. Practically every major house is connected by marriage to some extent. From Tywins perspective Robb was a traitorous rebel with no legal claim to any crown. against the crown of which he was charged to protect. Using Walders pettiness to his advantage to rid himself of the northern traitor (for which there was no clear heir) and isolate the Freys for later use. It would have been breaking his oath to serve the crown to not act when he had an opportunity. Not to mention it is my opinion that Tywin created the opportunity by setting up Robb to break his promise to Wallder. Masterful strategic thinking on his part. (Errr. I mean GRRM's).  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 48 minutes ago, Freys Injustice said: Tywin did nothing wrong  The Starks were asking for it No, they really weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 On 15/11/2017 at 9:14 AM, The Sunland Lord said: Way before the Red Wedding, Tyrion Lannister and Sansa Stark were already wed. That makes Tyrion and Robb Stark brothers-in-law and Sansa Stark is Tywin Lannister's daughter-in-law. So after his son's wedding to Sansa Stark, Tywin was aware and supported the Red Wedding, where Robb Stark would be and was assassinated (add Catelyn who should've been taken captive but was murdered too). Is by Westerosi standards, this act considered a kinslaying? If the kinslayers are accursed in the eyes of all the Gods old and new, was Tywin's death via kinslaying his punishment? It might be also that Robb, by executing his distant relative Rickard Karstark, as Gods' punishment is murdered via approval by his not-blood-related-relative Tywin Lannister. Was this chain of events meant to be George Martin's story spicery?  The Karstarks are so removed in terms of blood to the starks Cat suggests Robb finding an heir in the Vale for god sakes lol Karstarks share less blood with the current Starks then numerous other vassals in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunland Lord Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Stormking902 said: The Karstarks are so removed in terms of blood to the starks Cat suggests Robb finding an heir in the Vale for god sakes lol Karstarks share less blood with the current Starks then numerous other vassals in the North. I mentioned already-distant relatives. And at the moment they were in terrible relations even if they were close relatives. So Jon was the best decision Robb could make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygett Lannister Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Adam Yozza said: Maybe, but they would have died on the battlefield. It would have been more honourable. Not to mention, if they'd been defeated in battle the Northern Lords might be a little bit more willing to remain peaceful than they are knowing that the Frey's betrayed and murdered their family and liege and broke the sacred tradition of guest right to do so. Besides, would it have been that many more that died in a battle outside the Twins? Robb had less than 4000 with him when he got there. Caught of guard, trapped against the Twins with a river on one side and Randyll Tarly and Gregor Clegane's army on the other would be a slaughter for the North. So in that regard, only the same casualties as the wedding itself caused. Minimal losses for the attackers given the would have had superioir numbers and been ready for battle. Hell, this tactic may have cost less lives not more. Do people breath honor or air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Tygett Lannister said: Do people breath honor or air? You seem to have ignored the part where about the same number of people die either way/less people die than actually did at the Red Wedding. And the part where fighting on the field makes the Northern Lords less mutinous and therefore less likely to kill every Bolton and Frey they can get their hands on; so even in your 'If it saves lives it's right' approach the RW is still a bad long term strategy, not to mention competely morally reprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I agree that the Red Wedding was not really necessary and can cause long term negative terms for the crown, tainted as has become by the actions of its servants. Instead I'd say that a more conventional destruction of the rebels would have been preferable even if I think that would have cost more lives than the Red Wedding did as Frey losses were not large and that more smallfolk would have died if Clegane and Tarly would have had to march north to destroy Robb, and sent out foraging parties and such along the way. And I think that the crown could have used both Frey and Bolton in a better way. My preferable method would have been to try use the Freys to shut down th Twins and so trap Robb inside while the Boltons could either have let the Lannister-Tyrell army through without fuss if they held part of the defensive line and/or turned on Robb during the coming battle to ensure that the rebels were defeated. If Robb Stark would try to stealthy trick to defeated this loyalist army then the Boltons could have sabotaged it for Robb, as explained above, with turning on Robb or giving him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Didn't Robb thought about decapitating Tyrion to free his sister from their marriage? Because in this case I doubt slaying in laws is considered the same thing as slaying one's blood relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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