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U.S. Politics 2017: He's Good Enough, He's Smart Enough, and GODDAMMIT AL, WTF WERE YOU THINKING?


Manhole Eunuchsbane

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21 minutes ago, Waters Gate said:

Being a figurehead for the interrests of others is what i Think Trump is, and then it's not even about the issue's that get to the forefront than the ones that get dealt with in the background. Some political or media upheavel serves this function like for ex. trump's reaction to the violence in Charlotesville, people focus a lot on the red flag racism he seems to present, so other matters might be missed.

His tweets certainly serve this function.

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1 minute ago, Mexal said:

So a day after the news that Flynn and Zarrab (maybe even bigger problem) may be negotiating a deal, Trump tweets this. Coincidence? Doubtful.

 

Some how I don't see Erdogan as quite the peacemaker Trump makes him out to be.  Trump certainly isn't one. 

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I'm bored at work, so here are a  few rankings the US compared to other countries (most are in comparison to other OECD countries). I'll bold all the areas where we are #1.

 

Education system: #14 http://www.edudemic.com/learning-curve-report-education/ (thanks Kal)

College graduates: #19 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-falls-behind-in-college-competition-oecd-2014-9

Cost of college: #12 (that’s 12th highest of 36) http://www.valuecolleges.com/collegecosts/

Literacy rate: #7 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/03/08/most-literate-nation-in-the-world-not-the-u-s-new-ranking-says/?utm_term=.219d023b13e5

 

 

Infant Mortality: #29 (meaning 28 countries have a LOWER infant mortality death rate) https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2016-annual-report/comparison-with-other-nations

Life Expectancy: #26 https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2016-annual-report/comparison-with-other-nations

Teen Pregnancy: #1 http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/19/news/la-heb-teen-pregnancy-20120119

Health care Expenditures: #1 http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective  

 

Imprisonment of citizens: #1, by numbers; we drop to #2 rate of imprisonment http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total

Freedom of the Press: #43 (of 180) https://rsf.org/en/ranking

Acceptance of Homosexuality: 13th (with 33% of the population saying No, it should not be accepted) http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/

Gender Equality: #45 http://reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-report-2016/rankings/  

 

Hours worked/person/year: #17 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-09-02/hardest-working-countries-ranked-by-hours-worked-per-year

Salary: #23 (of 30 developed nations) https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/wef-davos-inequality/513185/

Income Tax rates: #31 (of 35) that’s the 5th LOWEST rate http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally

Wage Growth: #20 (of the G20) https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/09/06/us-lags-other-countries-wage-growth/89924144/

Income Inequality:  #4 (Behind Russia, Ukraine and Lebanon) http://inequalityforall.com/fact-4/ ;

GDP: #1 https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/022415/worlds-top-10-economies.asp

Super Rich: #1 https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/25/the-11-countries-with-the-most-billionaires.html

 

 

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What I don't get is that any person can google these statistics.  They are easily and readily available from a variety of different sources.  They all point to the US as being pretty behind, definitely not the greatest country on earth.  And yet so many Americans insist it's true and will repeat it over and over.  It's the sort of lying to one's self that I simply can never understand.

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Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

What I don't get is that any person can google these statistics.  They are easily and readily available from a variety of different sources.  They all point to the US as being pretty behind, definitely not the greatest country on earth.  And yet so many Americans insist it's true and will repeat it over and over.  It's the sort of lying to one's self that I simply can never understand.

I guess when your GDP and military are topping the list, everything else is irrelevant.

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22 hours ago, zelticgar said:

I just don't see what has fundamentally changed in the last two years other than a single change in who has the title of President. Literally nothing else has changed. This idea that the world is suddenly doom and gloom because of who sits in the White House is a crock of bullshit. I see this movement around trying to frame whatever your political opponent believes in terms of eradicating them. I don't want to live in a world without liberals and conservatives living together. We need opposing views and ideas to thrive as a culture.  At some point we became focused on not just arguing opposing viewpoints but arguing that those viewpoints should not exist. The idea that a political idea is fundamentally invalid and should not exist is what is really fucked up about this country. I'm for everyone having their say and being open to others ideas to at least have a place in the discussion. Seems like most people around here only want to hear one view point and swarm together to eradicate anyone who even thinks a slightly different way. 

I consider myself a patriot, severed nearly 9 years in the Army, and am thankful I live in the US, but that doesn't mean I am blind to its faults, and it has a lot of them, and they are getting worse by the day.

I'd qualify what you said with "for most white, straight people", not much too has changed in the past 2 years (see Kal's post above though) .  Most of the changes occurred in the mid 80's as a direct result of "Reaganomics"  the huge tax cuts for the wealthy, supply side economics and that mythical creature "trickle down effect".

The problem is, the current policy makes want to double down on these FAILED policies.

No one has claimed that yours (or anyone's for that matter) view points shouldn't exist, just that view points without facts are worthless.

I admit that sometimes it is easier to focus on what is wrong with something than on what is right, but I haven't seen you put for any thing to support your viewpoints. So what is it that makes our country great? What current policies are making our country better? What specifically has Trump done to better our country?

 

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

What I don't get is that any person can google these statistics.  They are easily and readily available from a variety of different sources.  They all point to the US as being pretty behind, definitely not the greatest country on earth.  And yet so many Americans insist it's true and will repeat it over and over.  It's the sort of lying to one's self that I simply can never understand.

It's a testament to the efficiency of propaganda and to the strength of the manufactured consent.
When you start describing the US's problems it even sounds like a joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUSiCEx3e-0

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31 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

And yet so many Americans insist it's true and will repeat it over and over.

American Exceptionalism at it's finest, and yet, the cognitive dissonance of so many who scream 'USA USA' and then agreeing with Trump about how bad it all is.  I guess the catapult of the propaganda about how the 'real Americans' have it so tough have blinded many that real problems exist, but they aren't what many think they are.

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20 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

What I don't get is that any person can google these statistics.  They are easily and readily available from a variety of different sources.  They all point to the US as being pretty behind, definitely not the greatest country on earth.  And yet so many Americans insist it's true and will repeat it over and over.  It's the sort of lying to one's self that I simply can never understand.

It's because we used to be #1 in a lot of these areas, and people like to live in the past. I think the majority of my generation and older are barely computer literate (can manage basics, but don't search stuff on-line).  They are also the groups mostly likely to watch Fox news.  If it's not said on Fox, they don't know about it.

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40 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

I thought it was going to be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHSXUS0_1c

I love this so much. Has to be one of the greatest moments on TV ever!

21 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

It's a testament to the efficiency of propaganda and to the strength of the manufactured consent.
When you start describing the US's problems it even sounds like a joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUSiCEx3e-0

That's pretty funny.  What is amazing is that both of these are from 2012, but so accurate still today

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14 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

I consider myself a patriot, severed nearly 9 years in the Army, and am thankful I live in the US, but that doesn't mean I am blind to its faults, and it has a lot of them, and they are getting worse by the day.

I'd qualify what you said with "for most white, straight people", not much too has changed in the past 2 years (see Kal's post above though) .  Most of the changes occurred in the mid 80's as a direct result of "Reaganomics"  the huge tax cuts for the wealthy, supply side economics and that mythical creature "trickle down effect".

The problem is, the current policy makes want to double down on these FAILED policies.

No one has claimed that yours (or anyone's for that matter) view points shouldn't exist, just that view points without facts are worthless.

I admit that sometimes it is easier to focus on what is wrong with something than on what is right, but I haven't seen you put for any thing to support your viewpoints. So what is it that makes our country great? What current policies are making our country better? What specifically has Trump done to better our country?

 

Lany, I'd say the same fundamental areas that mattered when GWB and Obama were in office matter now - stock market health, consumer confidence, standing in the world, employment growth, education, economic opportunity, gas prices, freedom of movement, safety, equality and a sense of pride for your country.

I remember some family members who are conservative feeling that the world was at a breaking point when Obama was elected and was able to pass Obamacare. Their fear and anxiety was palpable. I recall telling them that fundamentally, nothing would really change for them during the time he was in office and that view proved true. Really the only thing that happened was a small change in their health coverage to a high deductible plan which was offset by an HSA anyway. This big boogie man that they created in Obama was a mountain of sand. Trump is no different, yes he will change some policies, he will take a different approach to foreign policy and he will send out some embarrassing tweets but ultimately, nothing significant will change who we are as a country of the 4 years of his presidency. 

As to facts, I see a lot of facts, upthread someone just dredged up the same old set of statistics that are cooked up to show how horrible the country is doing. When you dig into the details it becomes the same old set of comparisons between a few Scandinavian countries with tiny, homogenous populations. I could spend hours on here picking through those stats and proving them wrong but it is not worth the time. This board has been wiped clean of any semblance of diverse viewpoint. The moderators have seen to that a long time ago. 

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^^^^^  So are you telling us that elections don't matter, who the Prez is don't matter, statistics don't matter.  The only thing that matters is your opinion because it is a 'diversity of viewpoint', or something.

Alrigthy then.

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Just now, Nasty LongRider said:

^^^^^  So are you telling us that elections don't matter, who the Prez don't matter, statistics don't matter.  The only thing that matters is your opinion because it is a 'diversity of viewpoint', or something.

Alrigthy then.

#AlternativeFactsMatter

#AllOpinionsMatter

#WhiteMaleOpinionsMatter

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3 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

^^^^^  So are you telling us that elections don't matter, who the Prez is don't matter, statistics don't matter.  The only thing that matters is your opinion because it is a 'diversity of viewpoint', or something.

Alrigthy then.

Well I'm not sure very much has changed for the average american over the past few presidents, thats not such a controversial point.

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6 minutes ago, Eggegg said:

Well I'm not sure very much has changed for the average american over the past few presidents, thats not such a controversial point.

Don't think so?  So, did you lose your house or your job in the '08 crash and aftermath?  I lost one of those, so guess what, I cannot agree with you, at all.

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4 minutes ago, zelticgar said:

Lany, I'd say the same fundamental areas that mattered when GWB and Obama were in office matter now - stock market health, consumer confidence, standing in the world, employment growth, education, economic opportunity, gas prices, freedom of movement, safety, equality and a sense of pride for your country.

I remember some family members who are conservative feeling that the world was at a breaking point when Obama was elected and was able to pass Obamacare. Their fear and anxiety was palpable. I recall telling them that fundamentally, nothing would really change for them during the time he was in office and that view proved true. Really the only thing that happened was a small change in their health coverage to a high deductible plan which was offset by an HSA anyway. This big boogie man that they created in Obama was a mountain of sand. Trump is no different, yes he will change some policies, he will take a different approach to foreign policy and he will send out some embarrassing tweets but ultimately, nothing significant will change who we are as a country of the 4 years of his presidency. 

As to facts, I see a lot of facts, upthread someone just dredged up the same old set of statistics that are cooked up to show how horrible the country is doing. When you dig into the details it becomes the same old set of comparisons between a few Scandinavian countries with tiny, homogenous populations. I could spend hours on here picking through those stats and proving them wrong but it is not worth the time. This board has been wiped clean of any semblance of diverse viewpoint. The moderators have seen to that a long time ago. 

That was me digging up the stats, and it's not just Scandinavian counties out doing us, it's Asian countries and most of western Europe too.

Not only that, but if you look at year to year data, the US continuously moves down compared to other countries.

As for what you said matters, that's extremely economically dense with a bit of strongman thrown in, and "equality" tossed in to make it sound nice. The biggest problem I have with people on both sides is defining terms.  Just yesterday my husband was all up in arms over what "privilege" means. ("that's not how I define it" me-"Then maybe you should look up how it is being defined today").

So maybe you could define a few things: "standing in the world", "safety", "equality"

I don't get the "gas prices" part, you've obviously never lived overseas. I'm incredibly grateful for our gas prices.

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