When Ned confronted Cersei...

[Livesundersink]

2 hours ago, Traverys said:

It'd be interesting to speculate why she would be motivated to kill the King's Landing bastards (e.g., Gendry). Is it because she wants one last revenge on Robert or because she thinks they're legitimate threats to her children's succession? Or both?

The 2nd one, cause when he wrote the will Ned used the words "my heir" and not "my son" and so she was afraid there was some sort of plot to name of Robert's bastards his heir, hence she had them all killed.

 

Although some elements from the 1st could also enter into it, just before he is attacked by Jaime, Ned is told that Robert fathered a pair of twins on a serving girl at Casterly Rock three years prior when Tywin hosted a tourney there, he is then told that Cersei had the babes killed and the mother was sold to a passing slaver.

[Traverys]

32 minutes ago, Livesundersink said:

he is then told that Cersei had the babes killed and the mother was sold to a passing slaver.

Right, that why I said "allegedly" in the original post. I believe it was LF who informed him. Not only is LF's word, at minimum, questionable, in the end it is just heresay. He could have embellished.

But we can reasonably suspect that she gave the order to kill Robert's bastards because she was regent and it was gold cloaks looking for them. I'm not saying Cersei isn't capable, I'm just saying the fact it's a story from LF makes its credibility limited.

[Regular John Umber]

A more interesting question: why did Eddard jump straight to Jaime as the father?

[Livesundersink]

2 hours ago, Regular John Umber said:

A more interesting question: why did Eddard jump straight to Jaime as the father?

Maybe he caught on to how much she almost worships Jaime, she refused to acknowledge him attacking Ned, said that Ned was drunk and cause the whole thing.

[Regular John Umber]

17 minutes ago, Livesundersink said:

Maybe he caught on to how much she almost worships Jaime, she refused to acknowledge him attacking Ned, said that Ned was drunk and cause the whole thing.

 

 Sisters feel that way about brothers though, especially twins. There's still a bridge to cross to get to incest. Ned got there very quickly, didn't even consider other suitors. Went' straight to incest. It's interesting, probably just a logic flaw from GRRM, but if it's not, I have to wonder why?

[Faera]

8 hours ago, Traverys said:

It'd be interesting to speculate why she would be motivated to kill the King's Landing bastards (e.g., Gendry). Is it because she wants one last revenge on Robert or because she thinks they're legitimate threats to her children's succession? Or both?

It could be a bit of both. She always hated Robert's philandering, after all. As for the threat they pose, aside from showing the dominance of Baratheon traits compared to her children, she might fear them for the same reason Catelyn feared Jon. If a bastard, particularly of noble birth, marries and has children, they will be trueborn. They could even found their own house, like the Blackfyres and Longwaters.

[Tygett Lannister]

On 11/18/2017 at 7:22 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Why didn't Cersei bring up the fact that all but one of Ned's children look like his wife? She'd make Ned look like the pot calling the kettle black...

That would suggest Catlyn was cheating on him. He is quite clean.

[Clegane'sPup]

14 hours ago, Regular John Umber said:

A more interesting question: why did Eddard jump straight to Jaime as the father?

Think back to the below conversation.

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn III    He nodded his consent.  "My sister Lysa believes the Lannisters murdered her husband, Lord Arryn, the Hand of the King," Catelyn told them. "It comes to me that Jaime Lannister did not join the hunt the day Bran fell. He remained here in the castle." The room was deathly quiet. "I do not think Bran fell from that tower," she said into the stillness. "I think he was thrown."   The shock was plain on their faces. "My lady, that is a monstrous suggestion," said Rodrik Cassel. "Even the Kingslayer would flinch at the murder of an innocent child."

 

Then Cat goes for a visit to KL to talk with Eddard. She told him all. She told him about the above conversation.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard IV    She put a finger to his lips. "Let me tell it all, my love. It will go faster that way. Listen."   So he listened, and she told it all, from the fire in the library tower to Varys and the guardsmen and Littlefinger. And when she was done, Eddard Stark sat dazed beside the table, the dagger in his hand.

 

Eddard started looking to JA’s death. For the purpose of the story it turns out that all of King Bob’s bastard children no matter what the mother/woman looked like had King Bob’s curly black hair. For the purpose of the story King Bob and Cersei’s children are blond.

Stannis was involved with JA while JA was doing his research into the parentage of King Bob & Cersei’s children. Stannis left KL after the death of JA and while King Robert was on his way WF.

Story wise JA & Stannis knew the truth about Cersei & Jaime is it possible that Eddard also uncovered the truth?

A Clash of Kings - Davos I      "Pylos, read it to him."    "Your Grace." The maester took up one of the parchments and cleared his throat. "All men know me for the trueborn son of Steffon Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End, by his lady wife Cassana of House Estermont. I declare upon the honor of my House that my beloved brother Robert, our late king, left no trueborn issue of his body, the boy Joffrey, the boy Tommen, and the girl Myrcella being abominations born of incest between Cersei Lannister and her brother Jaime the Kingslayer. By right of birth and blood, I do this day lay claim to the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.

 

When Eddard confronted Cersei he said, “I know the truth Jon Arryn died for.”¹

When Eddard and Cersei are talking the conversation goes like this:

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII      " Ned touched her cheek gently. "Has he done this before?"  "Once or twice." She shied away from his hand. "Never on the face before. Jaime would have killed him, even if it meant his own life." Cersei looked at him defiantly. "My brother is worth a hundred of your friend."    "Your brother?" Ned said. "Or your lover?" Both she did not flinch from the truth.

Cersei confirms that Jaime is her lover and the father of her children. She is not fearful.  King Bob is dying. She already knows what is going on. Eddard is the one outta the loop.

 

¹  Littlefinger likes to keep his hands clean. He spun distraught Lysa a tale and she killed her husband with poison.

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII       "Tears, tears, tears," she sobbed hysterically. "No need for tears . . . but that's not what you said in King's Landing. You told me to put the tears in Jon's wine, and I did. For Robert, and for us! And I wrote Catelyn and told her the Lannisters had killed my lord husband, just as you said.

My question is story wise, why did LF deem it necessary that Jon Arryn die?  As an aside, I give book and PoV references in case people want to check for context.

[Clegane'sPup]

18 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

First of all, he’s not a favorite. Second, it was pure bloody speculation, which I didn’t ask because I was bored.

   

[Angel Eyes]

41 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

   

?

[Clegane'sPup]

12 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

?

oh   smile   cool

[John Suburbs]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 3:19 PM, Angel Eyes said:

I’d think she’d do it just to spite Ned. Along that line, it would be in-character for Cersei to do something like that.

Do what, meet with him or not kill him? I don't see how either other those would be driven by a desire to spite Ned. If she would so worried about one hand finding this "evidence" against her to the point that she kills him, why casually admit it to the next hand who comes up with the exact same evidence?

 

[Angel Eyes]

10 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Do what, meet with him or not kill him? I don't see how either other those would be driven by a desire to spite Ned. If she would so worried about one hand finding this "evidence" against her to the point that she kills him, why casually admit it to the next hand who comes up with the exact same evidence?

 

I meant that it would be like Cersei to deflect blame and go “no, you” when Ned tells her.

Well, I guess I’m asking the original question from a different way: when Ned confronted Cersei, why did she admit right off the bat to bearing Jaime’s children? 

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

I meant that it would be like Cersei to deflect blame and go “no, you” when Ned tells her.

Well, I guess I’m asking the original question from a different way: when Ned confronted Cersei, why did she admit right off the bat to bearing Jaime’s children? 

Because she wasn't afraid of him or what he knew, primarily because he has no evidence that she can't easily deflect by, as you say, pointing out the features of Ned's own children. And ergo, if she wasn't afraid of Ned in possession of the information in the book, then she shouldn't have been afraid of Arryn either, which she wasn't.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

I meant that it would be like Cersei to deflect blame and go “no, you” when Ned tells her.

Well, I guess I’m asking the original question from a different way: when Ned confronted Cersei, why did she admit right off the bat to bearing Jaime’s children? 

At the time Eddard confronted Cersei, I'll be graphic, King Robert had his guts hanging out because a boar ripped open his stomach. Do you know what happens when the intestine is ripped and the waste hits the bloodstream? The man was dying,

Eddard is ignorant of the wheeling and dealing of the court of KL  Eddard has no "friends" at court. Cersei has Varys, LF and Pycelle.

She admitted it because Eddard was powerless to hurt her or her children. She holds all the cards as proven by her ripping up the King's last words (paper shield), LF betraying Eddard and Eddard being declared a traitor.

[Traverys]

16 hours ago, Faera said:

It could be a bit of both. She always hated Robert's philandering, after all. As for the threat they pose, aside from showing the dominance of Baratheon traits compared to her children, she might fear them for the same reason Catelyn feared Jon. If a bastard, particularly of noble birth, marries and has children, they will be trueborn. They could even found their own house, like the Blackfyres and Longwaters.

That's very true. And sometimes these bastards aren't the ambitious ones, just pawns snatched up by ambitious highborn to play the game of thrones. That's partially why Stannis wanted Edric Storm... though he of course didn't intend to put the bastard boy on throne. Anyone who hates the Lannisters would be given a legitimate reason to rebel without discarding their House's honor (assuming they win). So they certainly did pose a threat...

[Lucius Lovejoy]

This is one of my favorite scenes in the entire series - it is a shame Cersei ever became a POV because she was far more interesting as this mysterious, cruel, powerful, and confidant woman.  I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said except for the fact that Cersei must have loved boasting knowing she was secure with Robert dying, and besides she believed what was good for the dragon was good for the lion - I am sure she had some idea that with Joff as king she and Jaime might be lovers openly at some point.  As for killing the bastards, probably just an obsessive elimination of potential threats (and to avoid giving Stannis any evidence for his claims).  With respect to why LF thought it necessary to kill Jon Arryn, I sense that he was paving the way for Robert to die, believing his best path forward was for Joff to ascend.  He must have believed that Jon Arryn was too capable and good at manuevering in Kings Landing that he would have succeeded in banishing the Lannisters where Ned failed.