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Was Ned Engaged To Any1 before Catelyn?


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Putting aside my belief that Allyria is actually her daughter, Allyria wouldn't even be alive at the time.

As far as we've seen, betrothal in ASOIAF is waiting for both parties to be old enough. For the brides it is when they flower. Beric is (almost) 22, narrowing the age of the possible bride. The fact that he's betrothed to her for more than 3 years (possibly 5) means they were waiting for her to flower. So no sister for Ashara at the time.

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4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Putting aside my belief that Allyria is actually her daughter, Allyria wouldn't even be alive at the time.

As far as we've seen, betrothal in ASOIAF is waiting for both parties to be old enough. For the brides it is when they flower. Beric is (almost) 22, narrowing the age of the possible bride. The fact that he's betrothed to her for more than 3 years (possibly 5) means they were waiting for her to flower. So no sister for Ashara at the time.

Ahh yes, i'm sorry i had forgotten that

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7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Putting aside my belief that Allyria is actually her daughter, Allyria wouldn't even be alive at the time.

As far as we've seen, betrothal in ASOIAF is waiting for both parties to be old enough. For the brides it is when they flower. Beric is (almost) 22, narrowing the age of the possible bride. The fact that he's betrothed to her for more than 3 years (possibly 5) means they were waiting for her to flower. So no sister for Ashara at the time.

They didn't wait with Joffrey and Sansa.

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3 hours ago, Livesundersink said:

Ashara has a younger sister named Allyria, she is betrothed to Beric Dondarrion at the start of the novels

This not certain.

Allyria is Edic Dayne's aunt - we do not know whether maternal or paternal.

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On 23/11/2017 at 4:00 AM, maudisdottir said:

Too good a catch - she wouldn’t have looked twice at Ned, not when hot studly Brandon was around. She agreed to dance with Ned - because Brandon asked her.

Was Brandon already engaged to Cat at the time? Did his swordfight with Littlefinger happen before or after Harrenhal? I can't remember.

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As far as we've seen, betrothal in ASOIAF is waiting for both parties to be old enough. For the brides it is when they flower. Beric is (almost) 22, narrowing the age of the possible bride. The fact that he's betrothed to her for more than 3 years (possibly 5) means they were waiting for her to flower. So no sister for Ashara at the time.

While I agree Allyria, at best, would have been a baby at the time and thus not a marriage candidate, brides aren't necessarily ready to get married when they flower because most seem to be between 12 to 14 when that happens. The age of majority for both boys and girls is still 16, so they might have been waiting for her to be a woman grown. I know that's just a technicality since it still fits with the "Ashara has no sister at this point" theory but it still means she could have been a baby at the time. Either way, Ashara would have been a good catch because most people aren't going to want to wait around for her baby sister to grow up.

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

They didn't wait with Joffrey and Sansa.

In all fairness, even though Joffrey was 13 when he married Margaery while Sansa was 13 when she married Tyrion, them getting married so young is still seen as a little unusual even though Sansa had flowered. Both cases were exceptional circumstances. Other marriages that crop up in the books tend to happen when the parties are "grown" (at least 16), with others not happening until the parties are in their late teens.

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

However, Ned could  have been an exception; Ned himself tells Bran that he may keep a holdfast in Robb's name, so Brandon may have allowed him to hold some lands in his name, making him a lord of sorts. He wouldn't be too bad of a marriage option after that, depending on how much Brandon gives him.

Given Rickard probably could have lived another few more years than he ended up living, he probably would have been the one to set up his second son with a holdfast of his own. It might have been more beneficial for Ned to remain in the North and found a cadet branch. Though, the Starks don't seem to have the best history with their cadet branches. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if Rickard might have been considering a Northern bride for Ned. Not that he would have snubbed Ashara if the offer was made but she'd have probably been expected to come North, not the other way around.

But yeah, I don't think Ned and Ashara ever were a real thing on the cards. I'm one of those "Brandon-whodunnit" sayers. :rolleyes:

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30 minutes ago, Faera said:

While I agree Allyria, at best, would have been a baby at the time and thus not a marriage candidate, brides aren't necessarily ready to get married when they flower because most seem to be between 12 to 14 when that happens. The age of majority for both boys and girls is still 16, so they might have been waiting for her to be a woman grown. I know that's just a technicality since it still fits with the "Ashara has no sister at this point" theory but it still means she could have been a baby at the time. Either way, Ashara would have been a good catch because most people aren't going to want to wait around for her baby sister to grow up.

Yes, some don't marry immediately but remember Alys-Daryn, they were waiting for her to flower, or so Alys says and when she marries Sigorn she is yet to be 16. Walder Frey's new bride is also 15 years old.Roslin too, if I'm not mistaken.

30 minutes ago, Faera said:

Given Rickard probably could have lived another few more years than he ended up living, he probably would have been the one to set up his second son with a holdfast of his own. It might have been more beneficial for Ned to remain in the North and found a cadet branch. Though, the Starks don't seem to have the best history with their cadet branches. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if Rickard might have been considering a Northern bride for Ned. Not that he would have snubbed Ashara if the offer was made but she'd have probably been expected to come North, not the other way around.

But yeah, I don't think Ned and Ashara ever were a real thing on the cards. I'm one of those "Brandon-whodunnit" sayers. :rolleyes:

It makes more sense that Rickard makes the arrengements, yeah, but I said Brandon because we are told Bran will be holding a holdfast for Robb, not Ned. There could be an in universe reason I don't know about.

I'm of the belief Ned and Ashara fell in love since even little Ned Dayne and her aunt Allyria are told so. Being in love doesn't mean they would get to marry though. Ned is still a second son with an uncertain future regarding lands and titles whereas Ashara is the sole daughter of an old and relatively powerful family. If Rickard gave him lands enough to be a lord of notice, it could have happened, if not, he marries to Leonette Fossoway equivelant of the North.

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54 minutes ago, Faera said:

Was Brandon already engaged to Cat at the time? Did his swordfight with Littlefinger happen before or after Harrenhal? I can't remember.

Cat says she became engaged to Brandon when she was 12, that makes Brandon about 14 or 15. And his duel with Littlefinger happened after Harrenhal. IIRC, it was after the date of the wedding was finally announced.

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14 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

Cat says she became engaged to Brandon when she was 12, that makes Brandon about 14 or 15. And his duel with Littlefinger happened after Harrenhal. IIRC, it was after the date of the wedding was finally announced.

Brandon was 20 at the time and Petyr 15, so Catelyn would be 17 or so.

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