Dissecting Names

[HoodedCrow]

Do you think Craster could be an allided form of Crow’s Stark?

[Kandrax]

From r/freefolk

Baratheon- a boar then

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

From r/freefolk

Baratheon- a boar then

[Lost Melnibonean]

From @Seams in the current Wow, I never noticed that thread... 

11 hours ago, Seams said:

We know that GRRM likes to do things in threes. We know about two high Valyrian sayings about life:

Valar morghulis - "all men must die," and

Valar dohaeris - "all men must serve".

Could this be a hint about a third "must" for all men?

King Daeron II died the next year in the Great Spring Sickness, along with two of his grandchildren, Princes Valarr and Matarys.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

From @Seams in the current Wow, I never noticed that thread...  Valarr Matarys.

Valar morghulis - "all men must die," and

Valar dohaeris - "all men must serve".

Matar is spanish for "kill" Valar matarys. -- All men must kill

That sounds like a Faceless men alliance with the Night's King and the undead army.  We did know they were a death cult.

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

On 11/19/2017 at 4:15 PM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

@LmL 's Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire goes into the significance of Garth names and IIRC does make a connection to the gar (fish) and spear.  Lommy Greenhands comes to mind and he took a spear to the throat.  I do remember he pointed out that a commonly used method for catching fish was called a weir or a fishgarth.  

On 11/19/2017 at 2:39 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Rhae - girls name in Greek meaning "flowing"

[gar] In middle English: spear, dart, javelin, shaft, arrow, weapon, arms

Rhaegar has strong Odin symbolism--he is a warrior poet, a book nerd who loves music, but is also a very skilled warrior.  He has a son named Aegon (Egg = Ygg?).  He has the white skin and rubies weirwood symbolism.  He is sacrificed by the horned lord.

Rhaegar's name meaning "flowing fish trap" or "flowing spear/arrow'--with the "spear/javelin/arrow" associations, that is very good Odin/Weirwood symbolism  (Odin's weapon was a magical spear Gungnir "the word means producing a violent shaking or trembling, and it most thoroughly shook whomsoever was hit by it.")

The "for man, time is a river" quote comes to mind also. Also may be a reference to the novel "Time's Arrow" (which I have not read) which involves weird reverse chronology, "narrator is not exactly the protagonist himself but a secondary consciousness apparently living within him," time loops, and predestination  (read the plot summary)

 

Beric Dondarrion  "donder" in dutch means "to plummet, tumble" and "thunder" and it is one of the names of Thor, Beric is the "lightning lord" and his sigil is a lightning bolt,  Beric has very strong Odin/weirwood symbolism (one eye, sits a weirwood throne)

For "Beric" the best I can come up with is Beryl the gemstone, also called Heliodorus meaning "Gift of the Sun" in Greek.  If he represents a gemstone that fell from the sky and looked like a lightning strike or a flaming sword, and he has weirwood symbolism, and he was a "gift from the sun" that sounds a lot like a weirwood asteroid hitting Earth.

bēr (Old English) means  "bier; a litter to transport dead people"

ber (Albanian) means "bow; arc, arch, arrow, javelin, lance"

 

I posted this in another thread, but in Greek mythology Zeus gets baby-swapped by his mother so his father Cronus would not eat him. Zeus is then raised in a cave, or hung from a tree.  But one of the Meliae tree nymphs that raised him is named Melissa.  Whose name means "honey" and she feeds Zeus honey and goat's milk.

"The weirwood paste at first tastes bitter, then better, then almost sweet, tasting of honey"  " The white paste has red veins, which Bran supposes are only weirwood sap, though in the torchlight they look like blood"  Fed to Bran by CotF tree nymphs.

In Norse mythology the Mead of Poetry is a "mythical beverage that whoever 'drinks becomes a skald or scholar' to recite any information and solve any question."  The Mead of Poetry is made from the blood of the all-knowing man Kvasir mixed with honey

@LiveFirstDieLater pointed out that Bloodraven's mother was Melissa Blackwood, and he is the best Odin/weirwood (Zeus) symbolism of any character.  Brynden "man under the hill" Rivers, hung from a tree in a cave, has one eye, sacrificed himself for knowledge, ravens and wolves are his servants.

 

I was thinking Melisandre (also a very strong weirwood character, red eyes, red hair, white skin, ruby necklace, the burning red heart)  was a nurturing figure based on the honey associations, but I just found that  meli  can also mean "lie, falsehood, untruth" that combined with the "sandor" = "helper of men" or "protector of men" then Meli-sandor = "false protector of men" which fits right in with her being a charlatan and a puppet of the weirwood. 

And this fits in with my idea about Sandor Clegane being the real protector of men.  I think Clegane might be a reference to the Pink Floyd song Corporal Clegg (he has a wooden leg--is lame, has PTSD from the war) it is an anti-war song.

 

Varamyr's name is a combination of Vara (From Dungeons and Dragons, Vara is the Touv goddess of Nightmares and Fear. Her symbol is a necklace of mummified animal feet. Vara prefers to be depicted as a Touv woman with red eyes and stars in her hair. Vara is the first child of Meyanok, and considers herself to be superior to her younger brother Damaran and younger sister Berna. She uses her status as the eldest to compel them to do her bidding. Like her father, Vara loathes the other Touv gods, and revels in the act of twisting their minds. Like the other Touv gods, Vara dwells on the Material Plane.

and Myr (a unit of a quantity of 1,000,000 years)

 

Marwyn the Mage (mar meaning "spoil or damage" and wyn meaning "white" or "wine"--also sounds like Merlin the magician).  Marwyn is a thick-bodied white-haired maester has a red mouth from chewing sourleaf, who practices the dark arts.  Very weirwood-ish.  He looks like a mastiff--"as if he wants to bite you."  That is, he is compared to a large and aggressive predatory guard dog who watches over and guards the flock.  He worships at the church of starry wisdom.  He has a glass candle that allows him to see "across mountains, seas, and deserts" and "enter a man's dreams and give him visions, and speak to . . . another half a world apart"

This sounds exactly like what a greenseer does in his weirwood throne.

 

Jaqen is a weirwood agent, with red and white hair the color of weirwoood, he is a wanderer (Hagar in the bible wandered the desert), he speaks in riddles, he is a shapeshifter (very Odin of him).  He is a recruiter for a death cult.

 

By combining all the characters with weirwood/Odin symbolism I think you can get a picture of the true nature of the weirwoods and what they are up to.  Are their any I missed?

 

Oh, and Daenarys backwards "syran" = "siren" her sweet song lures men to their death.

 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Valar morghulis - "all men must die," and

Valar dohaeris - "all men must serve".

Matar is spanish for "kill" Valar matarys. -- All men must kill

Oh, that's good. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

5 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Valar morghulis - "all men must die," and

Valar dohaeris - "all men must serve".

Matar is spanish for "kill" Valar matarys. -- All men must kill

That is really good...

[The Fattest Leech]

4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oh, that's good. 

And including @Seams and @By Odin's Beard

Sorry for the wonky quote style (im

on my phone) 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III 

"Gone down into the earth," she answered. "Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Menwould not be sad. Men would be wroth. Menwould hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling.

 

She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

Said another way, "Do not go gentle into that good night, . . . Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

 

You made me have an idea about the possible Night's King alliance with the Faceless Men.  Why else would the Faceless Men have their slogan be about mandatory conscription into an undead army?

I always assumed that the Faceless Men & House of Black and White are loyal to the god (weirwood) who freed them from Valyria--but what if they are not.  They merely traded one slave master for another.  What if they are part of a conspiracy to usurp and destroy the weirwoods as well? 

That would make their parallel with the Maesters and the Citadel more intelligible.  Marwyn tells Sam the maesters can and will assassinate people with poison, they killed the dragons the last time round, and "that service is the highest honor, and obedience the highest virtue" (and the maesters have masks).  Sounds like the faceless men--assassins, destroyed Valyria and killed the dragons, "all men must serve" and they wear masks.  Both organizations have acolytes.  The faceless men pride themselves in seeing through deception.  Maesters pride themselves in science. 

The Maesters clearly state that there is no place for magic in the future they are building, what if the faceless men share this belief?  The Night's King certainly has a vendetta against the CoTF and Weirwoods.

In the World Book it says Brandon the Builder raised the first Stone Hightower at Oldtown, and Peremore (the Twisted) Hightower founded the Citadel.  When Bran finally realizes what the weirwoods are doing to humans, he went back in time and skin-changed cripples and founded the Citadel and formed a Grand Conspiracy to eradicate the weirwood.  He also built Winterfell, and the Wall, founded the Night's Watch, got himself turned into the Night's King--then he waits.  Black and white cyvasse pieces, you arrange your players on the board, then remove the screen.

This would fit well with the theme that science killed god--what if science literally kills god

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Said another way, "Do not go gentle into that good night, . . . Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

 Do know that one well. Very well 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Just a quickie, I am looking into meanings for Euron. 

option 1) Aaron is an important Biblical character, he is the brother of Moses.  He had a magical staff called Aaron's Rod that in one instance turned into a serpent and ate the magical rods of the Pharaoh's sorcerers, he brought the plagues to Egypt.  Staff was kept in the Ark of the Covenant.  "The prophet's task was to speak God's word on God's behalf. He was God's 'mouth' "

"Jethro planted the staff in his garden, when its marvelous virtue was revealed by the fact that nobody could withdraw it from the ground;(the sword in the stone) even to touch it was fraught with danger to life. This was because the Ineffable Name of God was engraved upon it."

I think the Rod is the weirwood: magical tree planted in a garden, it can bring plagues, it is snake-like, it might just kill you for touching it, "he who must not be named" reference.  And I think Euron gets ahold of it and brings plagues to Westeros.

"This supposed fact of the supernatural origin of the rod explains the statement in the New Testament that Aaron's Rod, together with its blossoms and fruit, was preserved in the Ark. King Josiah, who foresaw the impending national catastrophe, concealed the Ark and its contents and their whereabouts will remain unknown until, in the Messianic age, the prophet Elijah shall reveal them."

This sounds like somebody preserving a sample of weirwood in a box when the apocalypse happens.

Bible scholars please check in. 

option 2) Huron is a kind of weasel, or Marten, looks like a honey badger.  In the story weasels are mentioned alongside crows as untrustworthy carrion animals.

options 3) Aaron in addition to being archaic slang for the leader of a criminal gang, 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

I did not make the connection that Euron's brother is Aeron, which sounds exactly like Aaron.  Biblical plagues confirmed.  The Pale Mare is one of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  Are their others hidden in the story?

 

Mance Rayder, = "Manse Raider" = "Home invader"  He is also an Odin character, he is another warrior poet King of Men, with a raven helmet, and a multicolored cloak (like Odin), he wanders the land.

[Lost Melnibonean]

54 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

I did not make the connection that Euron's brother is Aeron, which sounds exactly like Aaron.  Biblical plagues confirmed.  The Pale Mare is one of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  Are their others hidden in the story?

I don't know if the other three horsemen have been hidden, but you might want to peruse the Wow, I never noticed that threads and the Referrences and the References and Homages thread for more little Easter eggs. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

I did not make the connection that Euron's brother is Aeron, which sounds exactly like Aaron.  Biblical plagues confirmed.  The Pale Mare is one of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  Are their others hidden in the story?

 

Mance Rayder, = "Manse Raider" = "Home invader"  He is also an Odin character, he is another warrior poet King of Men, with a raven helmet, and a multicolored cloak (like Odin), he wanders the land.

Ok let’s see...

White Horse - Conquest/Victory, the rider wears a crown, I believe this is represented by Dany’s Silver and Lyanna, queen of love and beauty, knight of the laughing tree, and the cause of Robert’s Rebellion.

Red Horse - War, the rider carries a great sword, sometimes thought of as representing civil war instead of conquest, Khal Drogo rides a red stallion, and his Khalisar is destroyed by civil war on his death (from a sword wound), Or (maybe better) the red stallion is the symbol of House Bracken, and Bittersteel crowned a handful of Blackfyres causing a number of civil wars, of course he also had the sword Blackfyre to give them.

Black Horse - Famine, the rider holds scales, Balerion . . . his fire was as black as his scales, his wings so vast that whole towns were swallowed up in their shadow when he passed overhead.

Pale Horse - Death, and Hades follows with him, authority over one fourth of the world was given to them, to kill with sword, famine, pestilence, and beasts... the pale mare, or potentially the mounts of the Others, dead horses

[HoodedCrow]

Illyn Payne is the executioner.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

The 4 horsemen are on the back-burner.

Harren Hoare, known as Harren the Black or Black Harren

Harren

From Middle English harre, herre, from Old English heorra (“hinge; cardinal point”)

From German har  "hither, here (to this place)"

From Dutch har  "gap, narrow opening (especially of doors, windows and hatches)"

Har is also one of Odin's names ("the high one" Tormund always says "Har!"), Har also refers to Horus, and Shiva.

Hoare

Middle English hor, hore, from Old English hār (“hoar, hoary, grey, old”) " A white or greyish-white colour.

 

I have speculated that Harrenhal will be important in the story because it was built over the entrance to an underground cave system that leads to the Isle of Faces.  If "harre" means "hinge (of the world)" and "a gap or narrow opening" and also is a way of saying "come here" this all fits.  He is drawing your attention to this spot because this is how you get to the Isle. 

Harrenhal has "huge, subterranean vaults " and it is later occupied by people with a bat for a sigil.  That suggests caves.

We know the Isle is warded by magic

Quote

there is the occasional account of some foolhardy young riverlord taking a boat to the isle and catching sight of them before winds rise up or a flock of ravens drives him away.

But they might be able to go under. 

 

The Harrenhal curse is mentioned many times.  It is cursed by the weirwood because they don't want people occupying such a sensitive location.  "The weirwood heart tree appears to have a terrible visage full of hatred, with a twisted mouth and flaring eyes."  Arya thinks of herself as the ghost of Harrenhal, she is a CoTF character who is mentored in murdering the humans of Harrenhal by a weirwood man Jaqen.

 

Harren the Black (Hoare means “hoary, grey, old") has some parallels to the mythic Grey King.  He was an "old, grey man who wore black armor" "the Grey King is so named because his hair, beard, and eyes were grey as the winter sea, and at the end of his life even his skin had turned grey."  Being from the Iron Islands, Harren would be a descendant of the Grey King, and was the absolute ruler of the Iron Islands.

The House Hoare sigil depicts a golden drakkar (dragon) longship on black, a green pine on white, a raven on blue, and red grapes on yellow--all bound by silver chains.  The silver chains are a metaphor for the weirwood enslaving the separate kingdoms.  And Harren goes to war against the weirwood, just like the Grey King did.

Quote

Weirwoods that had stood three thousand years were cut down for beams and rafters. . .  And when at last Harrenhal stood complete, on the very day King Harren took up residence, Aegon the Conqueror had come ashore at King's Landing.

The weirwood heart tree appears to have a terrible visage full of hatred, with a twisted mouth and flaring eyes.

The weirwoods out-played Harren.  They called-in the dragons.

 

Harry Horse (sounds like Harren Hoare) was a British writer who wrote a story called the "The Drowned God: Conspiracy of the Ages"  it was about ancient aliens who crash-landed on Earth and built a civilization here, and genetically manipulated humans,  They made half-human half-animal hybrids, such as pig-men.  Their civilization was Atlantis, and it was lost to the sea, and they might still be down there.  A secret society of Illuminati are suppressing knowledge of these events.  Humans accidentally activate a piece of their technology that calls the aliens back.  He made the story into a video game also.

This parallels almost exactly what I have said the Grey King was, a crash-landed alien, Nagga was his spaceship, he brought civilization to the Iron Born, he married a mermaid " so his children could live on land or in water" .  The Drowned God has an underwater palace or civilization, served by mermen.  The Dragonbinder horn was a piece of their technology that called back the aliens who are still in our solar system (the Stranger).

Har n (plural Haren)  horn (of an animal)

 

[Megorova]

Quaithe - the quai - from French 'quai' into English translates as 'dock'. Shiera - from Japanese シエラ - one of translations is also 'dock'. Quaithe is Shiera Seastar. There are 10+ clues/hints that connect them.

Lemore - from Italian - le more - the blackberries. Blackberries is a hint to Blackfyres, and lies.

Rhaegar - from Welsh - spoiled.

Rhaenyr (a) - from Welsh - spiders.

Drogo - from Polish - expensive, dear.

Bronn - from Welsh - prize.

Stark - from German - strong, powerful, great.

(a) erys - from Welsh - remain, stay, stop.

Varys - in Lithuanian - copys, i.e. the powers, authorization, full power, office.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Let's look at the Martell family, with the hypothesis that they represent the weirwoods.

Martell means "war hammer" in French

 

Oberyn = Oberon Earlier Auberon, from Old French Alberon, partial loan translation from Middle High German Alberich, literally ‘elf king, fairy king’.  "A fictional character in medieval and Renaissance literature, the king of the fairies, appearing for example in William Shakespeare's play A Midsummer Night's Dream."

(astronomy, moons) The outermost major moon of Uranus (Sky god in Greek myth).

Oberyn: king of the fairies, child of the Sky God, War Hammer, called the Red Viper (sounds like a Red Comet)

 

Doran means "they brown" in Spanish, also "exile, wanderer or stranger" in Irish, Hebrew name of Greek origin, meaning "gift."

Doran's wife Mellario,  mellar is Spanish for "to nick, to dent"  "to diminish, to lessen, to reduce"  and Latin mellāre  "make or collect honey" and malar is Spanish for "kill"

weirwood paste = honey, the weirwoods bleed people dry to make "honey."

Both names indicate the declining power of the weirwoods,

Many of the weirwood's avatars are wanderers, collecting information, but Doran hardly ever goes anywhere because of his poor health. 

The weirwood Brienne sees is described as "pale stranger"

"That's the Stranger coming, Penny. The Black Goat, the Pale Child, Him of Many Faces, call him what you will. That's death."

Doran means "gift", the gift that the Faceless Men give is Death.

"the Stranger was neither male nor female, yet both, ever the outcast, the wanderer from far places, less and more than human, unknown and unknowable. Here the face was a black oval, a shadow with stars for eyes."

The weirwood wandered here from far places, it is not native to Planetos.

 

Elia, the Prophet Elijah.  "God performed many miracles through Elijah, including resurrection (raising the dead), bringing fire down from the sky, and entering Heaven alive 'by fire'. The Book of Malachi prophesies Elijah's return 'before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD', making him a harbinger of the Messiah"

Weirwoods raise the dead, and they were fire brought down by the sky, and they can bring fire down from the sky.  Get hyped, because the great and terrible day of the Lord is coming soon.

"He jabbed his bony finger back at comet and castle. "There comes the Harbinger! Cleanse yourselves, the gods cry out, lest ye be cleansed! Bathe in the wine of righteousness, or you shall be bathed in fire! Fire!"

 

They all have reference to celestial bodies in their names, Oberyn a moon, Doran a wanderer (planet), Elia a meteor shower, and their last name means "war hammer" --they arrived on a weirwood asteroid, Red Comet.
 

[Julia H.]

On 2017. 11. 26. at 9:34 PM, Pikachu101 said:

Jon's surname is Snow because George based him on Snow White; dark hair, pale skin, father's wife hates them, animal companion, secret royal, friends with a group of misfits etc. Makes perfect sense! 

 

On 2017. 11. 26. at 10:28 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Add to that he is also a dwarf friend and will die but be resurrected by a princess.

 

On 2017. 11. 27. at 1:32 AM, Faera said:

Gosh, imagine if part of his resurrection process involves a kiss. We know it is a thing in ASOIAF, after all. 

 

I just have to add to this:

Tormund "Giantsbane", who is "not a big man" gets Oakenshield Castle - a pretty strong reference to Thorin, King of Dwarves. (Does that make all the wildlings dwarves?)  

In addition, just like Snow White, Jon Snow is (almost) killed by an apple - well, a Pomagranate. 

I fully expect a kiss in connection with his coming back to life.  

I just hope the kiss will not come from the wrong person.