NBA 2017 - 18: A Shot at Parity

[briantw]

8 hours ago, Relic said:

I just posted it to agree with the previous poster about the "one man team" especially after looking at that roster and remembering how fucking BAD that team would have been without LeBron.

That team might not have won a single game without LeBron.  The fact that team made the Finals at all is a fucking miracle, and a testament to just how good LeBron is.

[briantw]

7 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter East vs West. Its about the individual teams. You can also have a 50/50 conference split but have a conference that is top and bottom heavy in a 16 team seeding. 

Yeah, but that's not really the case here.  The eighth seed in the East has 32 wins right now.  The eighth seed in the West has...32 wins right now.

Even at the top, the disparity isn't that crazy right now.  Toronto is only five wins behind Golden State and Houston.  And that's not even mentioning the Cavs, who are going to end up being a much better team than their middling record indicates.  

[Rhom]

I'm headed to Toronto for a conference in June.  I have been sort of excited about the possibility that it could come during a Raptors playoff series.  Then I just checked and realized its at the end of June likely past the end of the NBA Finals.   

Had the conference been early June like I was thinking, I would at least have had the chance if they were to make it to the ECF.

[Rhom]

Speaking of NBA games.  My son will watch just about any NBA basketball game.  (At least for a while.)

For spring break, we aren't going anywhere big, but just hitting a few day trips.  We were looking at an indoor water park place in Indy and I looked to see about Pacers tickets while there. 

Good news:  Pacers are in town and tickets are available.

Bad news:  They are playing the Warriors and said tickets are in the far corners and drastically overpriced for Pacers tickets. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, briantw said:

That team might not have won a single game without LeBron.  The fact that team made the Finals at all is a fucking miracle, and a testament to just how good LeBron is.

I read a great article a few years ago that I can't find now, but it didn't just argue that the 07 Cavs team was the worst NBA team to ever reach the Finals, it was the worst team in any major American sport to reach it's league's championship. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, briantw said:

Yeah, but that's not really the case here.  The eighth seed in the East has 32 wins right now.  The eighth seed in the West has...32 wins right now.

Even at the top, the disparity isn't that crazy right now.  Toronto is only five wins behind Golden State and Houston.  And that's not even mentioning the Cavs, who are going to end up being a much better team than their middling record indicates.  

I think that's a bit misleading. Houston and GS are way better than the top teams in the East, and there's a good chance that 4 of the 5 best teams in the league are in the West (at least before Butler went down). And the middling playoff teams in the West would destroy the middling playoff teams in the East. The reason I'm for the change more than anything else is because it's felt like for two decades that teams in the West that missed the playoffs could have been as high as four seeds if they were in the East. The overwhelming majority of top tier players have been in the West and it's been that way for a long time. That's why I argued that we should do away with the East and West and randomly assign teams new divisions each year like how the group stages work in the World Cup. 

[sperry]

5 hours ago, Rhom said:

Speaking of NBA games.  My son will watch just about any NBA basketball game.  (At least for a while.)

For spring break, we aren't going anywhere big, but just hitting a few day trips.  We were looking at an indoor water park place in Indy and I looked to see about Pacers tickets while there. 

Good news:  Pacers are in town and tickets are available.

Bad news:  They are playing the Warriors and said tickets are in the far corners and drastically overpriced for Pacers tickets. 

Still, will be a cooler experience than taking him to a random Pacers Hornets game or something.

[Slurktan]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think that's a bit misleading. Houston and GS are way better than the top teams in the East, and there's a good chance that 4 of the 5 best teams in the league are in the West (at least before Butler went down). And the middling playoff teams in the West would destroy the middling playoff teams in the East. The reason I'm for the change more than anything else is because it's felt like for two decades that teams in the West that missed the playoffs could have been as high as four seeds if they were in the East. The overwhelming majority of top tier players have been in the West and it's been that way for a long time. That's why I argued that we should do away with the East and West and randomly assign teams new divisions each year like how the group stages work in the World Cup. 

Why are Houston and GS "way" better than Toronto or even Boston?  Is it because in Houston's lone meeting with Toronto, the Raps beat the Rockets in Houston by almost 40?

[briantw]

14 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Why are Houston and GS "way" better than Toronto or even Boston?  Is it because in Houston's lone meeting with Toronto, the Raps beat the Rockets in Houston by almost 40?

Well, we do know Lowry will turn back into a pumpkin once the postseason starts.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Why are Houston and GS "way" better than Toronto or even Boston?  Is it because in Houston's lone meeting with Toronto, the Raps beat the Rockets in Houston by almost 40?

Fake news! The Raptors beat the Rockets by 16 early in the season while Paul was out. The Rockets are now 31-1 when Harden, Paul and Capela play. That’s the best pace ever recorded. Furthermore, this year’s Rockets are set to break a number offensive records and are on pace to be the most prolific offense ever. And they’re playing great defense, including, (insert record skip and scratch), James Harden. He was an animal last night.

[Jaime L]

16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And the middling playoff teams in the West would destroy the middling playoff teams in the East. 

Whoa, this feels like a prior year take. Not this year. To me, this is the weakest the Western Conference has been in a long while. Outside of GS and Houston, no-one in the West is scary at all. Not sure any of the other 8 playoff contenders will win 50 games. Without Kawhi the Spurs have no top level talent. The T'Wolves have top level talent but don't play defense and we'll see who is standing by playoff time. OKC hasn't really clicked all year. Pelicans, Blazers, Nuggets, Clippers, Jazz..let's not even start.

 

 

[Jaime L]

This remains the coldest shit I've seen in a basketball game 

 

[Slurktan]

15 hours ago, briantw said:

Well, we do know Lowry will turn back into a pumpkin once the postseason starts.  

Probably.  We also know that Chris Paul and James Harden are complete shit in the playoffs too but people are forgetting that because.....?

[DMC]

3 hours ago, Slurktan said:

We also know that Chris Paul and James Harden are complete shit in the playoffs too but people are forgetting that because.....?

Chris Paul career playoffs:  76 games, 21.4 pts, 9.4 ast, 4.7 trb, 2.2 stl, .484 FG%, .381 3P%.  Yep, complete shit.

[Slurktan]

11 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Chris Paul career playoffs:  76 games, 21.4 pts, 9.4 ast, 4.7 trb, 2.2 stl, .484 FG%, .381 3P%.  Yep, complete shit.

How many series has he won?  How many has he lost when favored?  Anyone else you know lose by 58 at home in the playoffs?

[Ramsay B.]

4 hours ago, Jaime L said:

This remains the coldest shit I've seen in a basketball game 

 

I was watching it and had to rewind it like 4 times. It must feel so great to do that. Harden went nuts in the 1st quarter and set the tone, Clips didn't have a chance. I'm surprised he ended up with just pedestrian numbers.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

How many series has he won?  How many has he lost when favored?  Anyone else you know lose by 58 at home in the playoffs?

And that's the fault of the guy with the 5th best PER in postseason history?  As for the bolded, that's a good question - from what I recall Paul's teams usually lost to teams that were expected to beat them.

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

How many series has he won? 

He's won 4 playoff series. 

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How many has he lost when favored? 

Not many. 

2008 the Hornets had homecourt, but the Spurs were favored, and rightfully so, they were the better and more experienced team. 

2009, lost to favored Nuggets.

2011, lost to favored Lakers. 

2012 beat the #4 seed Grizzlies and then lost to the #1 seed Spurs. 

2013, played the Grizzlies again in the 4/5 matchup, but this time lost after Blake Griffin got hurt in game 4. 

2014 beat GSW, lost to favored OKC.

2015 beat the Spurs (in spite of the Spurs being the #6 seed, they were favored).  Lost to the #2 seed Rockets, after going up 3-1.  They were probably favored in that series, since the Rockets had injury problems going into the series. 

2016 again Griffin gets hurt in the playoffs, lose to Blazers.

2017 AGAIN Griffin gets hurt in playoffs, lose to Jazz.

So...he's lost three playoff series as a favorite (2013, 2016 and 2017) after Blake Griffin got injured.  One other series (Rockets 2015) they were probably favored, in spite of lacking home court.  Twice he's won series they weren't favored (2012 and 2015). If you think that's some record of playoff futility, that's fine.  I don't see it. 

Quote

Anyone else you know lose by 58 at home in the playoffs?

Who cares what happened in one game in 2009?  Why do you even remember this? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Whoa, this feels like a prior year take. Not this year. To me, this is the weakest the Western Conference has been in a long while. Outside of GS and Houston, no-one in the West is scary at all. Not sure any of the other 8 playoff contenders will win 50 games. Without Kawhi the Spurs have no top level talent. The T'Wolves have top level talent but don't play defense and we'll see who is standing by playoff time. OKC hasn't really clicked all year. Pelicans, Blazers, Nuggets, Clippers, Jazz..let's not even start.

 

 

I'm look at it like would the one seed in the East beat the one seed in the West, and going down each seed. I think the Cavs would beat a Butlerless Wolves team (not sure how it goes if Butler is healthy) and Portland and Philly is basically a push. I'd favor the Western team in every other match up. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

43 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said:

I was watching it and had to rewind it like 4 times. It must feel so great to do that. Harden went nuts in the 1st quarter and set the tone, Clips didn't have a chance. I'm surprised he ended up with just pedestrian numbers.

I was watching it live with the sound really low because I was reading, and I was totally confused. I thought a foul was called or Harden traveled or something because everyone stop moving. Then Harden stepped back and drained the three and sitting there like, "Why did he get points for that?"