The Hound and The Little Bird

[PD93]

So, I am new to this forum (or any for that matter) but absolutely love everything GOT.    I have watched the show a few times through, and am now reading the series (currently on ACOK). I have always been a hopeless romantic so many plots  are currently fascinating me and has me rooting for certain couples. 

I really love the relationship of Sandor and Sansa but really struggle with some aspects of it.  I know that the point of GRRM making these characters is to show how complex humans are, but I wonder if The Hound always had the best intentions with Sansa. It seems to me that he was trying to protect her in King’s Landing while not blowing his cover, which I strongly believe. But then there were his actions, and his rough words which leave me flabbergasted. 

I love the contrast between the two of them and how (in the show at least) they seem to be meeting more in the middle as far as personalities go. By season 7, he’s showing us more compassion and her more strength. I’m super eager for their reunion, by the way.

But as I read the books and hear them talk with a fluff of various innuendos, he says to her “I’ll have a song from you one day, whether you will it or not.” And she says “I will gladly give it to you.” My real question being: I can’t help but wonder if song is a metaphor for something: sex, appreciation, etc.? I’ve kind of went back and forth between various possibilities. I feel as though appreciation/love could work as she is always looking away and rarely seeming to notice the extent of his kindness in the dangerous area they are with the Lannisters. But in the Battle of the Blackwater, a drunk man coming to a girls room, screams sex to me. It makes me wonder if the thought of sex (or rape) was a possibility to him. He demands a song, and she touches his emotions with the one she picks, and it takes him by surprise. It almost looks like maybe he wanted to lay with her, but he realized her innocence and thought better. The reference of the song throughout the book is vague but I was hoping someone would have a better idea than me! They reference each other a lot after, so I wonder what GRRM is playing at with his deliberate use in their relationship.

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

2 hours ago, Hayliebugg99 said:

But as I read the books and hear them talk with a fluff of various innuendos, he says to her “I’ll have a song from you one day, whether you will it or not.” And she says “I will gladly give it to you.” My real question being: I can’t help but wonder if song is a metaphor for something: sex, appreciation, etc.?

It is a metaphor for sex.  Specifically female orgasm.  You are referring to the scene on the serpentine steps.  I think Sandor is saying something that feels somewhat safe to express because he knows it will go over her head.  It does for the most part.  She is thinking in terms of a literal song and suggests "Florian and Jonquil."  She does have to have some idea that even singing a literal song to a man is kind of an intimate act in itself.  Even on that level, she is saying that the intimate act of literal singing a romantic song is agreeable to her.  Sansa will learn what "singing" really means when Marillion tries to rape her on the Fingers and uses that term.  Then in hindsight she can full understand the implication. 

However, the night of the Blackwater, Sandor was demanding only the literal song of Florian and Jonquil.  Yeah, still totally not appropriate, but he knows the other song is just not okay.  He doesn't touch her in any way sexually.  What he wanted was intimacy and comfort in his PTSD meltdown and went about it in the wrong way.  He botched up this "rescue" of the maiden in the tower big time and he knows it.  Do I think he was physically attracted to her?  Yes.  But he never crossed that particular boundary, even though what he did was wrong.  It is definitely written with sexual subtext (in Sansa's internal narration), but nothing sexual actually happened.  What's hinted at is a future meeting between them as indicated by Sansa putting the bloody cloak in her hope chest beneath her summer silks, her future wardrobe.  You might find the Pawn to Player project very helpful to understanding their dynamic.  It's just such a multi-layered scene it's hard to do it justice in one post, but there's some really great essays there.  I highly recommend it.  Also ladycyrpus on tumblr has a great collection of meta essays on the topic.  I also have an unkiss essay on my tumblr differentiating it from trauma.  You can always hit me up there.  Hope that helps!               

[PD93]

I will definitely check out those essays! Your insight really helped. That’s what   I had been picking up on, but wasn’t sure if maybe I was reading too much into it or not. I feel like they are playing down the relationship in the show but still leaving some of the key scenes Incase they decide to visit the relationship. 

I also feel like the cloak holds a lot of symbolism in itself. White being pure, but it’s bloodstained. He drapes it over her when she’s been stripped in the court and then leaving it with her when he leaves. And not to mention, any other significance of any cloak is during wedding ceremonies as a symbol of the husbands protection. I NEED THEM TO REUNITE ASAP. 

Thank you for breaking it down for me, blue-eyed wolf!:)

[zandru]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:16 PM, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

What he wanted was intimacy and comfort in his PTSD meltdown and went about it in the wrong way.

I think your analysis is very good, particularly this part. However, Sansa gave him nothing - all she seemed able to do was parrot back his words, leading to his increasing frustration, then finally, closing her eyes when he approached. Just what a badly-scarred man who's sensitive about his appearance needs! It's my feeling (and I know there are innumerable folks who will disagree, vehemently) that when Sandor left, he finally shucked Sansa off. Twice - that night, and the night on Maegor's Keep roof - he'd tried in his bumbling way to get some sympathy from her and got none. After the Blackwater battle, Sansa made it clear that she really was just the colorful parrot, with no feelings toward him other than paralyzing fear.

On 11/22/2017 at 9:07 PM, Hayliebugg99 said:

I NEED THEM TO REUNITE ASAP. 

I hope not. The poor man has suffered enough. He's actually more sympatico with Arya. But Sandor ain't gonna ever get any better looking, so his hopes for love with any woman can never be fulfilled.

[PD93]

Maybe so! It’s definitely a complex scene. I wouldn’t say she gave him nothing. Singing him the prayer of the mother seemed to really touch him somehow. 

It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if Sansa finished out the series single. But I wouldn’t completely rule it out. She’s grown and learned that looks aren’t everything and the value of someone knightly can be from someone who doesn’t look the part. All part of growing up, I think! 

But he definitely spent more time in the show with Arya, so I would love to see them reunite as well. I don’t think there will be any bad blood between them!

[Meera of Tarth]

On 11/22/2017 at 2:51 AM, Hayliebugg99 said:

I love the contrast between the two of them and how (in the show at least) they seem to be meeting more in the middle as far as personalities go. By season 7, he’s showing us more compassion and her more strength. I’m super eager for their reunion, by the way.

Yeah,I also think that this is intentional in the show.

[Faera]

In the books, sure. In the show, I don't seem them going that route without it feeling a bit rushed or coming out of left field... but you never know.

[Zofiac]

On 11/26/2017 at 9:12 AM, zandru said:

I hope not. The poor man has suffered enough. He's actually more sympatico with Arya.

 

Agree. Plus Sansan has all the appearance of being a deliberate distraction. I'm betting if anything it's going to be Arya/Sandor and Gendry/Sansa.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

As Blue eyed wolf has explained, yes it absolutely is a euphemism for sex and female orgasm.  

On 26/11/2017 at 5:12 PM, zandru said:

I think your analysis is very good, particularly this part. However, Sansa gave him nothing - all she seemed able to do was parrot back his words, leading to his increasing frustration, then finally, closing her eyes when he approached. Just what a badly-scarred man who's sensitive about his appearance needs! It's my feeling (and I know there are innumerable folks who will disagree, vehemently) that when Sandor left, he finally shucked Sansa off. Twice - that night, and the night on Maegor's Keep roof - he'd tried in his bumbling way to get some sympathy from her and got none. After the Blackwater battle, Sansa made it clear that she really was just the colorful parrot, with no feelings toward him other than paralyzing fear.

I hope not. The poor man has suffered enough. He's actually more sympatico with Arya. But Sandor ain't gonna ever get any better looking, so his hopes for love with any woman can never be fulfilled.

I'd be one of those vehement disagreement folks.  You have to understand the symbolism of cloaks within ASOIAF. The writer specifically wrote them into the marriage ceremony, and they are used across all faiths in Westeros, and are such a strong and important symbolic emblem in their wedding ceremony that even when married under the auspices of R'hllor Alys Then receives her new husband's cloak.

Sandor tosses his cloak to Sansa to provide her with protection from her public exposure, then she chooses to clutch it to her breasts and thinks how fine the rough spun wool feels, this symbolises Sandor himself. he is rough, she thinks she wants velvets, she is used to velvets and yet his rough-spun wool feels finer, it is after all useful to her, it is functioning to protect her dignity in a very vulnerable moment. And he also just protected her by stopping the beating. He's doing the very job a husband swears to do as he drapes his cloak over his bride. "I offer you the cloak of my protection." 

Then the second time he offers her his protection, "they're all afraid of me, I'd never let them hurt you." ( paraphrased.) and then as he leaves, even though he did not get the sexual relationship he wanted; she is too young still. He leaves her his cloak; the offer still stands. And after he has left she chooses to get under it of her own volition. The cloak itself here symbolises too the loss of virginity, the red blood on the white evokes the real world practice of hanging out the bedsheet following a marriage to show the brides virginity and prove the marriage consummated. The bells ring out symbolising again female orgasm and the announcement of a marriage; we ring bells following a wedding. Finally, she places the cloak in a cedar chest symbolising a hope chest a North American tradition where a young woman places special items away for a future marriage. 

If you honestly think she has no feelings towards him other than paralyzing fear then how do you explain the pivotal role he is playing in her sexual awakening? Her imagining his kiss, her cupping his face in anticipation of it? her dreaming of him in her marital bed? etc. 

 

[PD93]

Yes! Love that take. I feel like there is a lot of set up for a potential SOMETHING with them! I love hearing everyone’s views on what all these symbols could mean. 

[Angel Eyes]

11 hours ago, PD93 said:

Yes! Love that take. I feel like there is a lot of set up for a potential SOMETHING with them! I love hearing everyone’s views on what all these symbols could mean. 

Prove it. Don’t see anything between them in the show outside of bodyguard and protectee. 

If anything, Sansa’s probably had enough of guys twice her age creeping on her.