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Why is Arya so boring?

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5 minutes ago, teej6 said:

I meant that I do understand that people’s views on characters will depend on their personal biases to some extent but that should not solely dictate their interpretation of a character from the books. And when a poster makes a blanket statement like so and so character is boring, they should provide arguments from the text to back this view of theirs. Or else, it turns out to be just personal bias and not rooted in anything they read/interpreted from the books.

As to my point about the forum, the forum is meant to debate/discuss interpretations of characters from the books and the storylines based on the text of said books and not just based on personal biases or likes/dislikes.

I don't disagree but the culture nowadays is to give an opinion on anything and everything. Ideally people wouldn't post unless they had something interesting to say, but that's not going to happen. If making it acceptable for people to just dislike a character without the need to provide an interesting explanation or "evidence" where there is none to be found (in the case of a subconsciously-formed opinion) ends some of the wtf statements I've seen lately on other threads, then I'm ok with that. At least it would be honest rather than shoe-horned in. Also, a lot of people don't know just where their opinion comes from or it comes from a number of places and that's another challenge entirely.

 

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27 minutes ago, teej6 said:

I meant that I do understand that people’s views on characters will depend on their personal biases to some extent but that should not solely dictate their interpretation of a character from the books.

Why not? People are at liberty to regard the books any way they wish and they are also at liberty to say so on the internet. We do still (so far anyway) still have free speech on the internet, don't we?

 

28 minutes ago, teej6 said:

And when a poster makes a blanket statement like so and so character is boring, they should provide arguments from the text to back this view of theirs.

Why not? Can't someone just think something or someone is boring? And then say so? Why isn't "I think this is boring" a valid argument in and of itself? I believe it is valid.

Now, does that make for an interesting or fruitful discussion? No, not likely. But so what? Free speech, again.

 

31 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Or else, it turns out to be just personal bias and not rooted in anything they read/interpreted from the books.

I would argue that someone is rooting their objection to what they read in the books. They read the story and didn't like some aspect of it. The story might have pleased them had it been written differently, but it wasn't. The OP doesn't like Arya's story. Their dislike is based on how Arya's story was written in the books. I don't assume they dislike Arya because they also dislike The Grapes of Wrath, just as an example.

 

36 minutes ago, teej6 said:

As to my point about the forum, the forum is meant to debate/discuss interpretations of characters from the books and the storylines based on the text of said books and not just based on personal biases or likes/dislikes.

I'm going to go back to my point about free speech. Is it your right to determine what is proper discussion on this forum? I don't think it is. You are, of course, perfectly at liberty to avoid or ignore any discussion you find useless, but you might want to think twice about asserting that your opinion (yes, opinion) about what is acceptable for discussion be adhered to by everyone.

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Why not? People are at liberty to regard the books any way they wish and they are also at liberty to say so on the internet. We do still (so far anyway) still have free speech on the internet, don't we?

 

Why not? Can't someone just think something or someone is boring? And then say so? Why isn't "I think this is boring" a valid argument in and of itself? I believe it is valid.

Now, does that make for an interesting or fruitful discussion? No, not likely. But so what? Free speech, again.

 

I would argue that someone is rooting their objection to what they read in the books. They read the story and didn't like some aspect of it. The story might have pleased them had it been written differently, but it wasn't. The OP doesn't like Arya's story. Their dislike is based on how Arya's story was written in the books. I don't assume they dislike Arya because they also dislike The Grapes of Wrath, just as an example.

 

I'm going to go back to my point about free speech. Is it your right to determine what is proper discussion on this forum? I don't think it is. You are, of course, perfectly at liberty to avoid or ignore any discussion you find useless, but you might want to think twice about asserting that your opinion (yes, opinion) about what is acceptable for discussion be adhered to by everyone.

 

 

I never said it was my right to determine what is proper discussion on this forum. Please don’t put words in my mouth. My argument was simply that people should provide arguments to why they feel this way or that to be taken seriously. I said this is a forum to discuss the ASOIAF books and things associated with it to your ridiculous argument that people can post views without textual basis because they have an opinion on it and not expect to get criticized for it. If a poster read the first Arya chapter and did not like her rebellious nature and then did not read anymore Arya chapters and still infers/refers to her as boring, then I think that is BS. And I have every right to state that. Before you go concluding that this what I am stating about the OP, it is not.

As you brought up the topic of free speech, it’s funny you falsely accuse me of dictating what is acceptable discussion on this forum and then state that I must avoid or ignore any discussion I find useless. Who are you to dictate what I must or musn’t comment on? If I find a thread lacks merit, it is perfectly within my right to say so. 

Edited by teej6

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On 11/29/2017 at 6:02 PM, manchester_babe said:

Arya is boring. She really is. But why is that? 

Maybe it`s because you can only do so much with her. 

This has gone on for five pages. How many times has @manchester_babe replied to anyone's bs concerning the topic?

The character Arya is not boring. Martin's decision to have the child roaming around in the same area over a long period of time is boring. It starts out in GoT with Yoren snatching her up in KL. Yoren is gonna drop her off at WF ---- and the story goes on and on and on without her reaching the goal until she arrives at the HoBaW and then the story goes on and on.

In FfC Arya had 3 chapters. In DwD she had 2 (?) chapters. Those chapters are giving information about what? The HoBaW.

I'm taking a short cut here rather than boring you with my yammering. What is the relevance of describing the workings of the FM? Basically that is what her DwD chapters are about.
 

Edited by Clegane'sPup
forget everything you watched on the the thing that cannot be mentioned in the book forum.

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

I don't disagree but the culture nowadays is to give an opinion on anything and everything. Ideally people wouldn't post unless they had something interesting to say, but that's not going to happen. If making it acceptable for people to just dislike a character without the need to provide an interesting explanation or "evidence" where there is none to be found (in the case of a subconsciously-formed opinion) ends some of the wtf statements I've seen lately on other threads, then I'm ok with that. At least it would be honest rather than shoe-horned in. Also, a lot of people don't know just where their opinion comes from or it comes from a number of places and that's another challenge entirely.

 

I agree with most of what you said, especially on today’s culture of people stating their opinion (in most cases expert opinion) on things they have no clue about. What I liked about this forum in the past (most of those posters seldom post anymore) is that people analyzed the text and had proper debates on their interpretation of the text. So when a thread was started, the OP usually took the effort to lay out their arguments and make a case for it. These days, most times, it’s just blanket statements based purely on personal views. 

And yes, you are right about the wtf statements/arguments people make but I’d still take that than none at all. There might be something honest about openly declaring one’s hatred for a character because of personal bias and not resorting to distorting the text to suit one’s views but then you can’t have a debate with such people as there is no point in discussing the text. On the other hand, if they quote the text, you may not convince them but at least you can call them out on the BS they are espousing. Most such posters stop debating when they can’t validate their views based on the text. 

Edited by teej6

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Responding to the OP not whatever is going on in thread just above me, most people do not find her boring at all, they are very engaged with her struggles and want her to survive. Does anyone know if Is it true the publisher's insisted she have POVs in every book?

Personally I just think she is overexposed as a result, but on my first read of the series, her chapters moved right along, the stuff I found boring was having to endure a whole new cartoonish culture of the Ironborn by the time got to AFFC, and the cast of characters at the Wall and beyond and Jon's slow development as a character in that setting.

 

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4 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

George is not going to spoon feed it to his readers but it is obvious Arya is mentally ill.  Whether you find that interesting or not interesting is up to your idea of what makes for a fun character.  Killing the coin master's bodyguard (Rafe) is not what mentally healthy children do. 

By that logic Jon is a mentally ill young man for behaeding Slynt

people kill each other all the time in the asoiaf universe. It doesn't make anyone other than Arya mentally ill though does it? 

Edited by Lady Dacey

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54 minutes ago, teej6 said:

These days, most times, it’s just blanket statements based purely on personal views. 

I agree.

56 minutes ago, teej6 said:

And yes, you are right about the wtf statements/arguments people make but I’d still take that than none at all. There might be something honest about openly declaring one’s hatred for a character because of personal bias and not resorting to distorting the text to suit one’s views but then you can’t have a debate with such people as there is no point in discussing the text. 

I have to ask. Hate, that is such a strong word. I'm reading a fictional book for enjoyment and there is a character I don't particularly like or identify with what does that mean?  It comes down to perception. Martin’s A Game of Thrones was published in 1996 when he was approximately 40+years of age. This is 2017some twenty years later.

1 hour ago, teej6 said:

On the other hand, if they quote the text, you may not convince them but at least you can call them out on the BS they are espousing. Most such posters stop debating when they can’t validate their views based on the text. 

I would venture to say that some posters merely throw their hands up in the air and say, “Okay.” I’m done. I ain’t getting my bowels in an uproar and fighting to the death over some fictional never ending saga or some off the wall theory.

So there you have it. Someone believes something and a different person believes something else. Trying to comprehend the author’s story depends on how far one has their head up their arse. Or whether or not they are trying to get some likes. Did twitter exist in 1996?

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1 hour ago, teej6 said:

I never said it was my right to determine what is proper discussion on this forum.

I think it was when you said:

4 hours ago, teej6 said:

But when you start a debate or discussion provide basis for your arguments. And in this case, the argument should be based on the text of the books not just personal opinions. 

and

3 hours ago, teej6 said:

This is a forum to discuss the books (or the show) and not to discuss people’s personal opinions or biases.

and

3 hours ago, teej6 said:

In forums such as this, we are not debating/discussing people’s opinions, rather we are discussing people’s interpretations of the series’ character/storylines based on the text.

(the bolding was added by me)

 

1 hour ago, teej6 said:

As you brought up the topic of free speech, it’s funny you falsely accuse me of dictating what is acceptable discussion on this forum and then state that I must avoid or ignore any discussion I find useless. Who are you to dictate what I must or musn’t comment on? If I find a thread lacks merit, it is perfectly within my right to say so. 

I'll just quote myself here and then move on.

2 hours ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

You are, of course, perfectly at liberty to avoid or ignore any discussion you find useless,

No "must or mustn't" about it. No accusations either.

I'm done here now.

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31 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I agree.

I have to ask. Hate, that is such a strong word. I'm reading a fictional book for enjoyment and there is a character I don't particularly like or identify with what does that mean?  It comes down to perception. Martin’s A Game of Thrones was published in 1996 when he was approximately 40+years of age. This is 2017some twenty years later.

I would venture to say that some posters merely throw their hands up in the air and say, “Okay.” I’m done. I ain’t getting my bowels in an uproar and fighting to the death over some fictional never ending saga or some off the wall theory.

So there you have it. Someone believes something and a different person believes something else. Trying to comprehend the author’s story depends on how far one has their head up their arse. Or whether or not they are trying to get some likes. Did twitter exist in 1996?

Yes, I agreee hate is a strong word so I’d rather use dislike. As to your example about disliking or not identifying with a fictional character that is perfectly normal behaviour. Most of us like fictional characters we can identify or at least empathize with. The issue I was raising is that in a public discussion forums such as this when you put your views across, it’s best you substantiate those views with arguments based on the story and character. If not, people are inclined to not take you seriously and discount your views even if they have merit. Your views may depend on you identifying or not with the character but if you are discussing it with random people on the internet you have to be prepared to provide a somewhat objective argument for your views. 

You are right, the world and people’s perceptions have changed since GRRM published AGOT. I feel that the people who initially read his books were the hardcore fantasy fiction fans but not so anymore. I can easily see the casual reader skipping chapters he/she finds boring or chapters of characters they dislike. And I only experienced the tail end of some of the discussions between some of the early posters on this forum. It was a real treat to read some of these threads — even in instances I didn’t share their views — since these posters debated the characters and story like one would do in a book club. The extent of the knowledge on mythology, history and such some of these posters had was truly amazing.

No, I don’t believe Twitter existed in 1996 :) 

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1 hour ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

I think it was when you said:

and

and

(the bolding was added by me)

 

I'll just quote myself here and then move on.

No "must or mustn't" about it. No accusations either.

I'm done here now.

You can cherry pick the verbs/adverbs I used in my posts and make it seem as if I was dictating this or that.  But again, that is not what I was attempting to do. If my words gave you the impression that I was trying to dictate what people should discuss on this forum, then that was not my intent. My whole argument was that if people want to have a reasonable discussion on public forums such as this and be taken seriously, then they must be willing to provide arguments based on the text to make their case. Or else, they are open to redicule and criticism. 

Edited by teej6

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1 hour ago, teej6 said:

Yes, I agreee hate is a strong word so I’d rather use dislike. As to your example about disliking or not identifying with a fictional character that is perfectly normal behaviour. Most of us like fictional characters we can identify or at least empathize with. The issue I was raising is that in a public discussion forums such as this when you put your views across, it’s best you substantiate those views with arguments based on the story and character. If not, people are inclined to not take you seriously and discount your views even if they have merit. Your views may depend on you identifying or not with the character but if you are discussing it with random people on the internet you have to be prepared to provide a somewhat objective argument for your views. 

You are right, the world and people’s perceptions have changed since GRRM published AGOT. I feel that the people who initially read his books were the hardcore fantasy fiction fans but not so anymore. I can easily see the casual reader skipping chapters he/she finds boring or chapters of characters they dislike. And I only experienced the tail end of some of the discussions between some of the early posters on this forum. It was a real treat to read some of these threads — even in instances I didn’t share their views — since these posters debated the characters and story like one would do in a book club. The extent of the knowledge on mythology, history and such some of these posters had was truly amazing.

No, I don’t believe Twitter existed in 1996 :) 

Thanks for setting me straight. It may sound a bit snarky. I actually mean it.

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I have enjoyed the last several posts on this thread.  It is nice to see people talk about how they would like to see this forum function what it is for.  I was reading the forum "Board Style Guide" which can be found by clicking on the forum home link and looking under Announcements for the locked thread created by Ran.  Within the style guide is an entry titled General Style Tips and tip #3 is quite relevant to this discussion. 

3.  Your posts should have actual content.

Edited by White Ravens

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Quote

 

3. Your posts should have actual content.

Posts that do nothing except agree with a previous post, for example, or posts that consist of nothing but emoticons are usually a waste of time and contribute nothing. There are exceptions according to context, so this is not a hard and fast rule: but mods may delete posts that seem to them to contribute nothing but an addition to your post count.

On a similar note, please note that there's a difference between criticism and simply saying negative things. That difference is content. Posts that do nothing but say 'I hate that character' or 'that book is awful' without any reasoned arguments as to whymay also be deleted, as they don't contribute to the discussion and tend to create a bad atmosphere. 

Posts that do nothing except agree with a previous post, for example, or posts that consist of nothing but emoticons are usually a waste of time and contribute nothing. There are exceptions according to context, so this is not a hard and fast rule: but mods may delete posts that seem to them to contribute nothing but an addition to your post count.

On a similar note, please note that there's a difference between criticism and simply saying negative things. That difference is content. Posts that do nothing but say 'I hate that character' or 'that book is awful' without any reasoned arguments as to whymay also be deleted, as they don't contribute to the discussion and tend to create a bad atmosphere. 

 

I don't think I've ever seen the mods delete any posts for this reason but I do agree that posts with actual content are more interesting to read and contribute far more to the overall quality of dialogue here.  Creating a thread with no content in the opening post is pretty weak and lazy.

Edited by White Ravens

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4 hours ago, manchester_babe said:

Just nevermind. :(

Whoa now.

Why is Arya so boring?

Started by manchester_babe, November 29

Arya is boring. She really is. But why is that? 

Maybe it`s because you can only do so much with her. 

 

The above is what you posted on the internet. It doen't take a genius to realize you are either a teenager or a a person pretending to be a teenager.

 

 

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Arya = Odysseus of some ancient fame. Her story arch is of the Odyssey.

This, set during the 100 Years War of real history, as adapted by grrm. Boring, perhaps, but telling a lot about the effects of the wars in Westeros. [nb, I think it's great!]

BTW, *horrors*, if one were to take the analogy too far... Penelope (Sansa) is awaiting Odysseus (Arya), as she weaves (knits, prevaricates, or whatever to extricate herself from her dilemma). You can only take the use of "needles" so far in analogy...

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On 12/7/2017 at 9:00 AM, Amris said:

Spoken like a real Sith Lord.

A sith lord who is very Anti-Arya and Anti-Jon.  

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On 12/1/2017 at 0:22 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

I never liked Arya's plot.  It's absurd to the point of ludicrous.  

 

On 12/3/2017 at 5:44 PM, Sydney Mae said:

THIS!  Arya's plot line is ridiculous.  She's just not interesting to me.  I know we are meant to be disturbed by what she does.  People focus more on sex than violence and maybe that is Arya's role.  I just don't care for her and her story line.  Her story line is just there to shock the reader with ever escalating gratuitous violence.  Honestly, Arya just needs to die and her plot line to end.

These are the same reasons why I don't like her chapters.  But to tell the truth, I don't like Arya so that makes me automatically turned off to her chapters.  What it all comes down to is how you feel about that character.  We like reading the pages devoted to the people we like.

The two Starks that are interesting are the ones who don't have a p.o.v. chapter.  That's Robb and Rickon.  How much better the northern chapters would be if the pov person was other than Jon.  I would have liked a Petyr B. pov in place of Sansa at King's Landing. 

 

 

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