UK Politics: Winter of Discontent

[A Horse Named Stranger]

On 20.2.2018 at 11:43 AM, Derfel Cadarn said:

David Davies reassures the British public that Brexit won't be like Mad Max.

Not exactly ringing with optimism. I don't remember them using that as a slogan on the campaign bus.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43120277

They should'Ve asked whether he meant the original or the remake.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Looks like you guys get all the entertaining bits of politics atm.

Anyway, the elders might remember when I said something along the lines, that Labour's position doesn't look more coherent, sensible, or better than what the May's Flying Tory Circus offers atm.

Well, looks like Labour decided to clarify its position on Brexit. It's apparently, we want a customs Union with the EU, not to be mistaken with the customs Union. What's the difference? Well besides that Labours version doesn't have the finite article in front of it, the difference is apparently that in a (Labour) customs Union the UK would still be able to negotiate its own trade deals. A reasonably cynic observer might notice, that the EU has pretty much ruled out any half-way in, half-way out option (for obvious reasons). But it's nice to see that 20 months in the process that have our cake and eat it approach is still alive and kicking.

Meanwhile on the sillier side of Westminster the Tories have dug that partial regulatory alignment zombie, in which the UK agrees on regulatory alignment for some sectors, but not for all. Which of course is a.) once again a non-starter for the EU (I think no excercise in cherry picking was the old phrase used) and b.) doesn't really solve any problems with regards to the Irish border. But apparently this position was enough to appease the different wings of the Tory party.

 

Not sure if this had been mentioned or posted.

Labour's shadow chancellor McDonnel, rules out single market membership, and explains a customs Union

I kinda admire the British boarders, who follow this and have not lost their sanity.

[Slick Mongoose]

39 minutes ago, Notone said:

I kinda admire the British boarders, who follow this and have not lost their sanity.

What makes you think we haven't lost our sanity?

[mormont]

I understand the current inner Cabinet (not to be mistaken for the full Cabinet) position to be 'during transition we'll adhere to all EU regulations, but because we choose to, not because the bloody Continentals tell us to'.

Afterwards, we'll have 'frictionless trade' but not by having a customs union, but by some other, as yet unspecified, method.

In other words, posturing, magical thinking and the power of wishing continue to make up most of our strategy.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

20 minutes ago, mormont said:

I understand the current inner Cabinet (not to be mistaken for the full Cabinet) position to be 'during transition we'll adhere to all EU regulations, but because we choose to, not because the bloody Continentals tell us to'.

Afterwards, we'll have 'frictionless trade' but not by having a customs union, but by some other, as yet unspecified, method.

In other words, posturing, magical thinking and the power of wishing continue to make up most of our strategy.

I think the unspecified method, is not so much unspecified, as it is simply unrealistic. Like I mentioned above regulatory divergence, or partial regulatory alignment seems to be what they've dug from the graveyard of Brexit schemes. Of course this isn't going to fly and the British companies will sooner or later yank on the goverment's leash.

[maarsen]

56 minutes ago, mormont said:

I understand the current inner Cabinet (not to be mistaken for the full Cabinet) position to be 'during transition we'll adhere to all EU regulations, but because we choose to, not because the bloody Continentals tell us to'.

Afterwards, we'll have 'frictionless trade' but not by having a customs union, but by some other, as yet unspecified, method.

In other words, posturing, magical thinking and the power of wishing continue to make up most of our strategy.

Don't you just love politics? Does everybody think wishful thinking is the way to solve all problems? Good thing about the UK is they don't have the extra burden of Trump doing the negotiating, as the US does with NAFTA.

[mormont]

4 hours ago, Notone said:

I think the unspecified method, is not so much unspecified, as it is simply unrealistic. Like I mentioned above regulatory divergence, or partial regulatory alignment seems to be what they've dug from the graveyard of Brexit schemes. Of course this isn't going to fly and the British companies will sooner or later yank on the goverment's leash.

The linked article doesn't really mention any details. But the line as it was being pushed on the radio this evening was that our standards will 'meet or exceed' the EU's standards in all areas, so if that isn't simply bollocks spin, that's more than 'partial regulatory alignment'. It's also pie in the sky, and even it it were to be so, it's not clear why this would mean that the EU would simply agree to 'frictionless' trade.

[GAROVORKIN]

On 2/21/2018 at 6:52 AM, lessthanluke said:

Well you needed it.

If you say so.  No matter, im not going to make a mountain out of a molehill on this 

 

 

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

11 hours ago, mormont said:

The linked article doesn't really mention any details. But the line as it was being pushed on the radio this evening was that our standards will 'meet or exceed' the EU's standards in all areas, so if that isn't simply bollocks spin, that's more than 'partial regulatory alignment'. It's also pie in the sky, and even it it were to be so, it's not clear why this would mean that the EU would simply agree to 'frictionless' trade.

From the article.

Quote

One senior Brexiter emerged from the eight hours of cabinet talks at Chequers, the PM’s official country retreat in Buckinghamshire, to say “divergence was the victor”. However, May’s spokesman gave few details on what had been decided.

Divergence being the victor is the key phrase imo. And it's pretty much the only interpretation that is somewhat logical from a Brexiteer point of view, it doesn't have to be realistic, just ideologically coherent. So of course Tusk shot those Brexit ala carte ideas down instantly.

To the meet or exceed EU standards it. I know it's almost unthinkable that Brexiteers are not being 100% truthful. However correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the US trade secretary say something along the line, that the UK will have to adjust their food standards if they hope to sign a FTA with the US. I  am not saying the US doesn't exceed the EU standards, but I think that'll be the crux, what's good for the average American, should be good for a Brit to stomach (pun intended).

And in the wider context of adjusting regulations for the brave new post Brexit world, I can see the red tape that held Britain back fall.

Make of that you will.

[Werthead]

The UK government is considering requesting that the transition period be extended past the end of 2020 because there's no way the negotiations will be completed by then.

The EU says okay, but we will lose the Budget Rebate after 2020 (possibly unless we commit in full to the next budget period).

Things are going well.

[mormont]

Here's a good read on why the Irish border issue is probably the biggest obstacle, and how the details really matter.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0224/943212-brexit-and-the-border-the-great-reckoning/

[Werthead]

Ben Bradley has folded like a pack of cards and has made a grovelling apology to Jeremy Corbyn and given substantial sums of money to a charity of his choice.

Kevin Butler provides the aptest response.

36 minutes ago, mormont said:

Here's a good read on why the Irish border issue is probably the biggest obstacle, and how the details really matter.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0224/943212-brexit-and-the-border-the-great-reckoning/

I have full confidence that our politicians will deal with this paradox intelligently and creatively. Now pardon me whilst I investigate job and living possibilities in other nation-states that are not here.

[The guy from the Vale]

Isn't it kind of telling that the Irish government seems to have a clearer position on Brexit than the British government, in spite of the fact that the latter is pushing Brexit hard?

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Now pardon me whilst I investigate job and living possibilities in other nation-states that are not here.

I recommend Berlin.

 

Conveniently, I was already here when shit went down.

[The Marquis de Leech]

On 24/02/2018 at 4:55 AM, Notone said:

Anyway, the elders might remember when I said something along the lines, that Labour's position doesn't look more coherent, sensible, or better than what the May's Flying Tory Circus offers atm.

Labour's fudging the issue out of political expediency - they can't come out and explicitly say "Soft Brexit!" without fear of further working class desertion, and they can't come out and say "Hard Brexit!" without losing the Grumpy Remainer vote. So they try to appear all things to all people.

(Complicating matters is the divergence between Corbyn's own personal views here, and the views of the wider Labour Party). 

[ljkeane]

This Brexit stuff is all well and good but what’s the the government going to do about the snowpocalypse? That’s what’s important now!

[The BlackBear]

Don't worry guys, the Irish border will be fine, Boris has first hand experience of the Congestion charge, he'll sort it out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43210156

[SeanF]

16 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Labour's fudging the issue out of political expediency - they can't come out and explicitly say "Soft Brexit!" without fear of further working class desertion, and they can't come out and say "Hard Brexit!" without losing the Grumpy Remainer vote. So they try to appear all things to all people.

(Complicating matters is the divergence between Corbyn's own personal views here, and the views of the wider Labour Party). 

Something you can get away with in Opposition.

IMHO, the simplest solution at the moment would be to rejoin EFTA, and then spend the next few years working out what our relationship with the EU is going to be.  EFTA membership comes with dozens of off the shelf free trade agreements.  The two year timescale set out in Article 50 is far too short.

[Werthead]

8 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Don't worry guys, the Irish border will be fine, Boris has first hand experience of the Congestion charge, he'll sort it out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43210156

Yes, even by Boris's standards this is a particularly inane statement. Amongst other things, the London Congestion Charge boundary is not 300 miles long and doesn't have lengthy stretches going through open countryside that are hard to monitor.

The hardline Tory Brexiteer's flagrant disregard for the Northern Irish Peace Process and their willingness to risk a return to violence is both irresponsibly reckless and flabbergasting.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

On 27.2.2018 at 1:11 AM, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Labour's fudging the issue out of political expediency - they can't come out and explicitly say "Soft Brexit!" without fear of further working class desertion, and they can't come out and say "Hard Brexit!" without losing the Grumpy Remainer vote. So they try to appear all things to all people.

(Complicating matters is the divergence between Corbyn's own personal views here, and the views of the wider Labour Party). 

Yes, Labour have the luxury that they are the opposition party, thus they can somewhat fudge the issue. However that doesn't negate the point that their position is utter nonsense. Of course the more non-sensical Tories distract from that fact. And I don't believe being in opposition somehow relieves you of taking sound political positions and allows you to get away with utter nonsense.

And that goes to the very core of being entitled to a strong opposition in parliament. Labour is atm not providing that imho. And that's a problem Labour has to solve.

 

Anyway, back to the Irish border issue. Today the EU has released its position on the Irish border. And somehow what has been agreed in December by PM May is now totally unacceptable for any British PM. Namely the fallback option of forcing regulatory alingment on NI with the ROI (and the EU) and treating NI as part of the customs Union, this preventing a hardening of the border and effectively putting the EUs border into the Irish sea.

In one of the moments of hillarity on side of the Brexiteers, Reese-Mockgg called out for Ireland to abandon the project of political European Unity in favour of prosperity.
If the Irish border wasn't actually a matter of life and death, this whole mess would be excellent entertainment.