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Dark: Netflix's Time-Bending German Mystery Series {Spoilers from page 5}


AncalagonTheBlack

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17 minutes ago, red snow said:

On the ending

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alt future could be in play but that shakes the story almost moreso than that of a fourth +33. Although given the set up of Noah maintaining time and Claudia trying to alter it - maybe it would serve to see some element of change occur.

 

As for characters being unsympathetic

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most of them seemed to go down darker paths, I agree. Mikkel and Jonas seemed to remain ok. Mikkel was frustrating (yet also incredibly economic gap-filling storytelling) in how does he reach the point where he knows he has to kill himself? Does Jonas play a part in this? Or is it simply the fear that his son may never come to exist if he doesn't? I still feel we need Father and son to cross over at some point to reinforce why Mikkel decides this. As for Hannah it's sort of cool she appears to be carving her own vindictive path but was she really so unaware of Mikkel being out of time as her husband? She did mention how she felt as though she'd never known him but that could almost be after he told her the truth (or someone else did).I also recall how the show made a specific point about mirroring (with the cliched school class on it) and how we often saw very similar events playing out in the different time periods (often in sync) although in Martha's case it didn't entirely line up her lying about the rape at the same "time" as her lying about the nature of the affair.

 

As for your last spoiler tag

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Helge's real father is a deliberate tease and I wonder whether his handicap has something to do with potentially being his own father or something weird like that? Also, how did he survive the bludgeoning at the hands of Ulrich? Maybe he's too important for the time line/loop to allow to die? Quick question - what exactly did his crashing into himself prevent? I do think there's something about certain characters that makes them special eg Jonas is a person conceived out of time which maybe allows him to perceive/alter time in ways regular folks can't. And along the same lines - has anyone survived the eye burning/ear popping time-machine? I sort of feel as if there must have been someone who's survived this - or will. Certainly a crafty way of hiding a murder by dumping the body in the wrong time.

 

 

Spoiler

Even in the few scenes of Mikkel in 1986, it was obvious how hard it was on him. I can't imagine there being any real happiness in his life after that crossing over other than possibly Jonas. It would be nice to have some scenes of them together. But, boy, did the cast become quite incestuous as the series progressed. Did you notice older Jonas also seemed to have a scar on his neck? I'm wondering if he might have tried to hang himself. It was throwing me off initially. I thought Older Jonas was actually younger Jonas' father in the earlier episodes. Hannah could have been in the dark. It fits with her statement about never really knowing Mikkel. Plus, she always really loved Ulrich :) 

As far as the mirroring, yes. After the scene in class with the teacher discussing Goethe and symmetry, it was in the back of my head the entire series how similar the events and actions in the different time periods were. Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme".

Concerning Helge, what handicap are you referring to? I didn't get the carsh either. The only guess I have was it was Noah's means of preventing future 2019 Helge from stopping 1986 Helge. Maybe that is also the reason for Bartosz taking his place. Was that initial missing  kid Erik(?) just a dupe to put Bartosz in play as Noah's new henchman?

Your theory about Jonas could be correct. He had an insight other characters didn't, but that also is another chicken and egg question. Is it because he's outside the loop or simply because future Jonas is pointing him in the right direction. Yikes, the more I discuss it, the more ideas keep popping up and more confusing it seems to get. I'll have to read some reviews and get some  other fresh perspectives.

I don't believe anyone survived the time machine. Who knows, maybe Jonas is the first.

 

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20 hours ago, briantw said:

People who watch foreign shows with English dubs are fucking savages. 

 

19 hours ago, briantw said:

Well, yeah with kids or people with vision issues I can see it, but with regular people...fucking savages.

So much this^^

I get that some people are lazy, but you miss so much of the actor's performance when you can't hear their delivery and tone, regardless of whether you understand it or not. It'd be like blurring out their eyes or facial expressions.

 

Anyway, came to check this thread out because i'm stuck for something to watch, looks encouraging

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9 hours ago, Astromech said:
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Even in the few scenes of Mikkel in 1986, it was obvious how hard it was on him. I can't imagine there being any real happiness in his life after that crossing over other than possibly Jonas. It would be nice to have some scenes of them together. But, boy, did the cast become quite incestuous as the series progressed. Did you notice older Jonas also seemed to have a scar on his neck? I'm wondering if he might have tried to hang himself. It was throwing me off initially. I thought Older Jonas was actually younger Jonas' father in the earlier episodes. Hannah could have been in the dark. It fits with her statement about never really knowing Mikkel. Plus, she always really loved Ulrich :) 

As far as the mirroring, yes. After the scene in class with the teacher discussing Goethe and symmetry, it was in the back of my head the entire series how similar the events and actions in the different time periods were. Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme".

Concerning Helge, what handicap are you referring to? I didn't get the carsh either. The only guess I have was it was Noah's means of preventing future 2019 Helge from stopping 1986 Helge. Maybe that is also the reason for Bartosz taking his place. Was that initial missing  kid Erik(?) just a dupe to put Bartosz in play as Noah's new henchman?

Your theory about Jonas could be correct. He had an insight other characters didn't, but that also is another chicken and egg question. Is it because he's outside the loop or simply because future Jonas is pointing him in the right direction. Yikes, the more I discuss it, the more ideas keep popping up and more confusing it seems to get. I'll have to read some reviews and get some  other fresh perspectives.

I don't believe anyone survived the time machine. Who knows, maybe Jonas is the first.

 

Helge

I got the impression he was mentally slow? He was godawful at maths and while he was supposed to have dementia in 2019 he had an odd "innocence" him in the other time periods as well. 1986 Helge could be due brain damage from Ulrich's attack but it was clear he wasn't altogether there even in childhood.

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4 hours ago, dooog said:

 

So much this^^

I get that some people are lazy, but you miss so much of the actor's performance when you can't hear their delivery and tone, regardless of whether you understand it or not. It'd be like blurring out their eyes or facial expressions.

 

Anyway, came to check this thread out because i'm stuck for something to watch, looks encouraging

It's definitely worth persevering with if someone has never tried subtitle's before. Once you get used to it there's that weird mental switch where the words and voices combine creating an illusion you can understand what they are saying.

It's a nightmare when trying to eat at the same time though! And i often wind up watching sub shows/films early in the day as I'm liable to snooze some evenings/nights which is a no-go for subs. You can close your eyes and still follow events if you can hear dialogue but pretty hard to read with eyes half-shut :)

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43 minutes ago, red snow said:

It's a nightmare when trying to eat at the same time though! 

I can't eat when I watch foreign movies or shows.  Just doesn't work.  You spend too much time looking away from the screen and inevitably miss important text.

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10 hours ago, red snow said:

Helge

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I got the impression he was mentally slow? He was godawful at maths and while he was supposed to have dementia in 2019 he had an odd "innocence" him in the other time periods as well. 1986 Helge could be due brain damage from Ulrich's attack but it was clear he wasn't altogether there even in childhood.

 

Spoiler

Ah ok. Yeah he was definitely not the sharpest character. I'm wondering how long he has been helping Noah, or even when Noah arrived.

 

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2 hours ago, Astromech said:
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Ah ok. Yeah he was definitely not the sharpest character. I'm wondering how long he has been helping Noah, or even when Noah arrived.

 

The weid/cool thing is that

he may have only being meddling in things for a couple of months yet appear to have 99 years of reaching effects

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Does this seem right so far? Or am I missing something?

 

 

Ugh. I'm really trying to get this wormhole. 

So apparently the event that triggered it's creation happened in 1986. And from what we've seen so far it can be used to travel back 66 years, back 33 years, forward 33 years, or forward 66 years. Which I guess means it actually first showed up in the cave in 1920, but with only the ability to go forward in time until 1953. 

And at some point between 1920 and 1953 someone installed some carved doors at the entrance/exit.

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33 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Does this seem right so far? Or am I missing something?

 

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Ugh. I'm really trying to get this wormhole. 

So apparently the event that triggered it's creation happened in 1986. And from what we've seen so far it can be used to travel back 66 years, back 33 years, forward 33 years, or forward 66 years. Which I guess means it actually first showed up in the cave in 1920, but with only the ability to go forward in time until 1953. 

And at some point between 1920 and 1953 someone installed some carved doors at the entrance/exit.

Spoiler

The wormhole coincides with the lunar/solar/planetary alignments every 33 years, but somehow Winden is special in that there is a crossing or gateway for jumps these 33 year periods. I'm not sure if it is only for the 33 year periods the series shows or more time periods are possible. I'm assuming more are possible. The show seems to hint that an event at the nuclear plant created it, but I'm not entirely certain on this point. Could it possibly just be the location the power plant is located in that created the accident at the plant, i.e., building a nuclear plant in an unstable location? It's possible Noah simply knew of this location of the wormhole and set these events and pawns in action to create the crossing and time loop.Part of what I love and hate about the series is all of these chicken or egg questions. 

Yeah I wondered about those gates. As well as the intricately carved doors to the crossing/labyrinth.

 

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41 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Does this seem right so far? Or am I missing something?

 

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Ugh. I'm really trying to get this wormhole. 

So apparently the event that triggered it's creation happened in 1986. And from what we've seen so far it can be used to travel back 66 years, back 33 years, forward 33 years, or forward 66 years. Which I guess means it actually first showed up in the cave in 1920, but with only the ability to go forward in time until 1953. 

And at some point between 1920 and 1953 someone installed some carved doors at the entrance/exit.

I think that's about right. Only read the spoilers if you've seen the whole show.

It's only gone back as far as 1953 so far though. Unless I missed something? Besides the Dog I'm not sure whether anyone has travelled forward in time with respect to their point of origin. Although Jonas may have in the last minutes of the season. Even Claudia as an old woman was arguably only travelling back down her own timeline. If someone knows of a character who travelled forwards please point it out. I'm not counting corpses in this. Ulrich, Helge, Mikkel and Jonas(es) all travelled back from their point of origin. So far only Claudia and Jonas have been shown to even be capable of going back (Ulrich, Helge and Mikkel have so far got stuck after their time-travel although we don't know whether they even tried to return yet. Until we know for sure who Noah is I can't really speculate on his travelling.

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Another interesting detail is . . .

Spoiler

that the maze only had three branches so it's either 33 years forward or back. I wonder if that will come into play in possible future seasons.   

Also the show seemed to love using symbolism, especially concerning the maze/labyrinth, Ariadne, etc. Is there or will there be a "minotaur" in the series.?

Claudia is the big wildcard for me. I really didn't have a great grasp of her later arc, other than being similar to Jonas in so far as being more of a traveler. What pushed or pulled her away from her job? The accident? Aleksander/Boris? Yeah, the dog Gretchen seems to be the only definite forward traveler.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Astromech said:
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The wormhole coincides with the lunar/solar/planetary alignments every 33 years, but somehow Winden is special in that there is a crossing or gateway for jumps these 33 year periods. I'm not sure if it is only for the 33 year periods the series shows or more time periods are possible. I'm assuming more are possible. The show seems to hint that an event at the nuclear plant created it, but I'm not entirely certain on this point. Could it possibly just be the location the power plant is located in that created the accident at the plant, i.e., building a nuclear plant in an unstable location? It's possible Noah simply knew of this location of the wormhole and set these events and pawns in action to create the crossing and time loop.Part of what I love and hate about the series is all of these chicken or egg questions. 

Yeah I wondered about those gates. As well as the intricately carved doors to the crossing/labyrinth.

 

 

So you think the wormhole only works during certain periods? Like if someone went from 1986 to 1953 and stayed a couple years, they wouldn't be able to go from 1955 back to 1988?

37 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think that's about right. Only read the spoilers if you've seen the whole show.

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It's only gone back as far as 1953 so far though. Unless I missed something? Besides the Dog I'm not sure whether anyone has travelled forward in time with respect to their point of origin. Although Jonas may have in the last minutes of the season. Even Claudia as an old woman was arguably only travelling back down her own timeline. If someone knows of a character who travelled forwards please point it out. I'm not counting corpses in this. Ulrich, Helge, Mikkel and Jonas(es) all travelled back from their point of origin. So far only Claudia and Jonas have been shown to even be capable of going back (Ulrich, Helge and Mikkel have so far got stuck after their time-travel although we don't know whether they even tried to return yet. Until we know for sure who Noah is I can't really speculate on his travelling.

 

 

I think you're right about the dog being the only character to go forward so far. But I'm thinking that was just thrown in to show that it is possible.

And yeah, 1953 is as far back as its gone so far. But that was because Ulrich made a 66 year jump from 2019. I'm thinking if he can make a 66 year jump, then someone in 1953/1986 could do the same. Unless of course it turns out 1953, 1986, and 2019 are the only options.

Edit: And also on the dog. To go through the wormhole it seems you have to be able to open that door. Which makes me think someone purposefully put the dog through.

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2 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

 

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So you think the wormhole only works during certain periods? Like if someone went from 1986 to 1953 and stayed a couple years, they wouldn't be able to go from 1955 back to 1988?

 

 

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I think you're right about the dog being the only character to go forward so far. But I'm thinking that was just thrown in to show that it is possible.

And yeah, 1953 is as far back as its gone so far. But that was because Ulrich made a 66 year jump from 2019. I'm thinking if he can make a 66 year jump, then someone in 1953 could do the same. Unless of course it turns out 1953, 1986, and 2019 are the only options.

 

Spoiler

I believe so. The alignment opens the wormhole but it only last several days. There were a scene or two where characters made a big deal out of the dates(looked like a four or five day window based on the dates. These were written on the wall. I believe November 9th, possibly ending November 12th) I believe it was Trontje who said something along the lines of "don't worry it will all be over soon" to his son Peter in the bunker.

 

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50 minutes ago, Astromech said:

Another interesting detail is . . .

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that the maze only had three branches so it's either 33 years forward or back. I wonder if that will come into play in possible future seasons.   

Also the show seemed to love using symbolism, especially concerning the maze/labyrinth, Ariadne, etc. Is there or will there be a "minotaur" in the series.?

Claudia is the big wildcard for me. I really didn't have a great grasp of her later arc, other than being similar to Jonas in so far as being more of a traveler. What pushed or pulled her away from her job? The accident? Aleksander/Boris? Yeah, the dog Gretchen seems to be the only definite forward traveler.

 

 

I agree with the maze always presenting two options to two time periods - although Jonas maybe encountered two choices the first time he went through. A minotaur character could be interesting - living within the caves and not knowing how to get out.

53 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:
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So you think the wormhole only works during certain periods? Like if someone went from 1986 to 1953 and stayed a couple years, they wouldn't be able to go from 1955 back to 1988?

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Edit: And also on the dog. To go through the wormhole it seems you have to be able to open that door. Which makes me think someone purposefully put the dog through.

Good point! Given the nature of the show, it's probably a safe bet that crone Claudia collected the dog and delivered it to 80s Claudia because she knew the time-travelling dog was what would lead her down the path of discovering the truth about the cave.

I also like the rule being speculated upon

that the cave time-travel is only available for a number of weeks/months. This explains why the murders/kidnappings happen every 33 years, why Mikkel missed his window of opportunity etc. It also stops the show from getting way too convoluted. It means Ulrich needs to get a move on! Or maybe we've seen a 33 year older version of him in the show already???

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Finished the first episode and midway through the second.  Want to wait to comment on the actual story until I'm further along, but I just wanted to note that this show is absolutely gorgeous.  Feels like I'm watching a film rather than a TV show.  I know lots of shows look good these days, but this one looks notably better than most.  Just some fantastic cinematography.  

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Just finished episode six.  This show has gotten very good very fast.  Only complaint is that, thus far, two of the big twists they've done have been really easy to see coming from a mile away.  Probably because I watch too much TV.  :lol:

Spoiler

Specifically, I figured the dead boy they find early on (was it the first or second episode?) was Mads the second they found him.  It was also pretty easy to figure out that Mikkel would end up being Jonas' father, which made the letter he left really underwhelming because I'd already figured out the reveal an episode earlier.  I thought that letter would have a much bigger impact than it actually had.

 

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8 hours ago, briantw said:

Just finished episode six.  This show has gotten very good very fast.  Only complaint is that, thus far, two of the big twists they've done have been really easy to see coming from a mile away.  Probably because I watch too much TV.  :lol:

  Reveal hidden contents

Specifically, I figured the dead boy they find early on (was it the first or second episode?) was Mads the second they found him.  It was also pretty easy to figure out that Mikkel would end up being Jonas' father, which made the letter he left really underwhelming because I'd already figured out the reveal an episode earlier.  I thought that letter would have a much bigger impact than it actually had.

 

Spoiler

The Mads reveal was obvious. I was originally undecided whether Mikkel was future Jonas in the early episodes, but it became obvious once he went back to 1986. (I couldn't help but keep thinking of Mads Mikkelsen whenever either of those names came up.)This series became more and more gripping with each episode. I loved it.

 

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I never knew that "Dark" was German for "Stranger Things" :P 

Seriously though, Dark, Stranger Things, IT, as long as the story is done well I hope they keep making these, sci-fi/fantasy/horror with a heavy 80's nostalgic bent, I love this stuff!

Three episodes in on this series and enjoying it. :) 

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