Dark: Netflix's Time-Bending German Mystery Series {Spoilers from page 5}

[briantw]

Regarding Aleksander:

Spoiler

Presumably, in a world where Ulrich doesn't exist, Hannah never falsely accuses Katharine of being raped, and they never blame it on Regina, and so she's never being bullied in the forest on the day he shows up to town and helps her.

Thus, she never meets him and falls for him.  

ETA: There's also no power plant in the origin world, so he wouldn't have been able to have Regina help him get a job there.

 

[Heartofice]

I also agree with @RhaenysBee on pretty much every point. I really wanted to love this season, because I did love the other two (although the second season had weaker elements in that I think are on show here, but to a lesser extent)

It wasn't that the last season was bad, but it was messy, and its conclusions didn't feel like it came from the show of the first season. I respect the level of intricacy with the plotting on the show, and that it really does appear to have been planned as a complete 3 season arc, but by the end rather than revealing how things tied together, the show simply added more and more layers to wade through. 

Oh well. 
 

[RhaenysBee]

14 minutes ago, briantw said:

Regarding Aleksander:

  Hide contents

Presumably, in a world where Ulrich doesn't exist, Hannah never falsely accuses Katharine of being raped, and they never blame it on Regina, and so she's never being bullied in the forest on the day he shows up to town and helps her.

Thus, she never meets him and falls for him.  

 

Spoiler

That’s all perfectly fine, but if Alexander was an existing random person who accidentally killed Clausen’s brother and fled to Winden to start over, why wouldn’t he wind up at Winden’s largest employer, the Kraftwerk, which is run by Regina’s mother? I’m not saying they’d necessarily run into each other at the bring your kid to work day, but the likelihood is no smaller than Aleksander’s running into Regina in a forest right when she was being bullied. It doesn’t really matter if they end up together or not, I just wish we had seen a conclusion for Aleksander. Probably because I always liked him as a person. 

 

[briantw]

13 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

  Hide contents

That’s all perfectly fine, but if Alexander was an existing random person who accidentally killed Clausen’s brother and fled to Winden to start over, why wouldn’t he wind up at Winden’s largest employer, the Kraftwerk, which is run by Regina’s mother? I’m not saying they’d necessarily run into each other at the bring your kid to work day, but the likelihood is no smaller than Aleksander’s running into Regina in a forest right when she was being bullied. It doesn’t really matter if they end up together or not, I just wish we had seen a conclusion for Aleksander. Probably because I always liked him as a person. 

 

Spoiler

Did he go to Winden specifically to start over?  In the first season he's been shot and is in bad shape, and potentially only stays in Winden because Regina helps him after he helps her.  

It's possible in the origin world that he simply passes out in the forest and bleeds to death. 

 

[RhaenysBee]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

  Hide contents

Did he go to Winden specifically to start over?  In the first season he's been shot and is in bad shape, and potentially only stays in Winden because Regina helps him after he helps her.  

It's possible in the origin world that he simply passes out in the forest and bleeds to death. 

 

Spoiler

 you’re right, that’s a possibility too. Maybe that’s what happened to him. 

 

[DaveSumm]

I usually go on reddit once a season of Dark is done and found out so many awesome things that I missed. This time all I’m getting is plot holes.

Spoiler

Broadly speaking, Dark is less and less interesting the more people know about time travel. Ulrich is a kind of pure example of someone who doesn’t know much; he believes Helge to be responsible for his son’s disappearance and Mads death, so he goes back semi-accidentally to 1953, where he fulfils his destiny of wounding Helge and ultimately growing old in a psychiatric ward. He was only ever motivated by the desire to get his son back, and save the children from their fate. Yasin, Erik, Mads.

At a certain point, the writers essentially give up giving people these motivations. They still spout quotes that pay lip service to the idea, “a man can will what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills”. By the end of the third season, virtually every one of our characters have been accosted by either Adam or Eva or Claudia and convinced that preserving the loop is paramount. Why does Charlotte get placed with Tannhaus? The loop. Nobody actually desires it, or accidentally causes it. It just gets done. This is the explanation of a good 70% of the mysteries in the end. Our three main players, Adam, Eva, Claudia, constantly say that this loop cannot be changed and then spent every waking minute of their lives engineering it to not change.

You can say the same for plot elements as well: the chair in the bunker was initially presented as an experiment. But then we learn that, no, Sic Mundus already had a way more advanced portal and they were learning nothing. It was needless child murder all in the name of the loop. This too is a crutch of the writing, it’s applicable to literally anything: it’s not a chair, it’s a giraffe who must be smothered in jam, because that’s how the loop goes. That literally makes as much sense, being that both are fabricated from thin air and aren’t wilfully created by anyone.

 

[Heartofice]

Spoiler

"By the end of the third season, virtually every one of our characters have been accosted by either Adam or Eva or Claudia and convinced that preserving the loop is paramount."

This maybe the biggest flaw of the show actually. Your comment has helped me to realise it. Initially the characters were interacting with time itself. Time was this powerful force and all the characters were being dragged along by it. There was something quite spiritual and awe inspiring in that concept, something bigger than all of us. It was like looking out at the universe and seeing how massively powerful it is.

But then the show shifted gears and it was people who were controlling time.. well sort of. All the major events became part of a plan, it was people who were making things happen, not the natural consequences of the nature of time itself. That is just less interesting, and falls into the standard Time Travel plot, like sending someone back to save Sarah Connor. 
 

 

[Mexal]

47 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I usually go on reddit once a season of Dark is done and found out so many awesome things that I missed. This time all I’m getting is plot holes.

  Hide contents

Broadly speaking, Dark is less and less interesting the more people know about time travel. Ulrich is a kind of pure example of someone who doesn’t know much; he believes Helge to be responsible for his son’s disappearance and Mads death, so he goes back semi-accidentally to 1953, where he fulfils his destiny of wounding Helge and ultimately growing old in a psychiatric ward. He was only ever motivated by the desire to get his son back, and save the children from their fate. Yasin, Erik, Mads.

At a certain point, the writers essentially give up giving people these motivations. They still spout quotes that pay lip service to the idea, “a man can will what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills”. By the end of the third season, virtually every one of our characters have been accosted by either Adam or Eva or Claudia and convinced that preserving the loop is paramount. Why does Charlotte get placed with Tannhaus? The loop. Nobody actually desires it, or accidentally causes it. It just gets done. This is the explanation of a good 70% of the mysteries in the end. Our three main players, Adam, Eva, Claudia, constantly say that this loop cannot be changed and then spent every waking minute of their lives engineering it to not change.

You can say the same for plot elements as well: the chair in the bunker was initially presented as an experiment. But then we learn that, no, Sic Mundus already had a way more advanced portal and they were learning nothing. It was needless child murder all in the name of the loop. This too is a crutch of the writing, it’s applicable to literally anything: it’s not a chair, it’s a giraffe who must be smothered in jam, because that’s how the loop goes. That literally makes as much sense, being that both are fabricated from thin air and aren’t wilfully created by anyone.

 

Spoiler

Time travel is hard. For example, the bold. Maybe that's true but the experiments in 1986 triggered events in 2019 which triggered Jonas going back in time and so on. So while they did have an advanced portal in 1922, it was a significantly older Jonas who was leading it and the events that preceded it is what lead him to even be there in the first place. It's chicken or the egg and a lot of time travel is like that. I get your point in terms of the final season being all about the loop but the whole battle was about destroying vs maintaining the way things were, one to kill the pain of reliving the death of the woman he loves and the other to maintain the child she grew to love (even if he's a creepy fucker).

I get the issues, they just didn't bother me much.

 

[RhaenysBee]

23 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

  Reveal hidden contents

"By the end of the third season, virtually every one of our characters have been accosted by either Adam or Eva or Claudia and convinced that preserving the loop is paramount."

This maybe the biggest flaw of the show actually. Your comment has helped me to realise it. Initially the characters were interacting with time itself. Time was this powerful force and all the characters were being dragged along by it. There was something quite spiritual and awe inspiring in that concept, something bigger than all of us. It was like looking out at the universe and seeing how massively powerful it is.

But then the show shifted gears and it was people who were controlling time.. well sort of. All the major events became part of a plan, it was people who were making things happen, not the natural consequences of the nature of time itself. That is just less interesting, and falls into the standard Time Travel plot, like sending someone back to save Sarah Connor. 
 

 

Your second paragraph is the perfect summary of the essence of the problem. 
 

Spoiler

By introducing the duality of the world and shifting the focus to the  powerplay between two opposing forces, time itself became unimportant. Adam and Eva’s conflict could as well have been about a castle or a stock deal. The story was no longer about individuals’ fight against fate/God/the unbridled power of time. It was a conflict between two sides, two flawed humans who are both mistaken in their interpretation of events and corrupted by selfish motives. 9 out of 10 fantasy/sci-fi/adventure stories are constructed according to that pattern. There’s nothing wrong with that, per se, it was just the way season 3 lost its mystique which was one of the main qualities that made Dark stand out in the crowd.

 

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I usually go on reddit once a season of Dark is done and found out so many awesome things that I missed. This time all I’m getting is plot holes.

  Hide contents

Broadly speaking, Dark is less and less interesting the more people know about time travel. Ulrich is a kind of pure example of someone who doesn’t know much; he believes Helge to be responsible for his son’s disappearance and Mads death, so he goes back semi-accidentally to 1953, where he fulfils his destiny of wounding Helge and ultimately growing old in a psychiatric ward. He was only ever motivated by the desire to get his son back, and save the children from their fate. Yasin, Erik, Mads.

At a certain point, the writers essentially give up giving people these motivations. They still spout quotes that pay lip service to the idea, “a man can will what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills”. By the end of the third season, virtually every one of our characters have been accosted by either Adam or Eva or Claudia and convinced that preserving the loop is paramount. Why does Charlotte get placed with Tannhaus? The loop. Nobody actually desires it, or accidentally causes it. It just gets done. This is the explanation of a good 70% of the mysteries in the end. Our three main players, Adam, Eva, Claudia, constantly say that this loop cannot be changed and then spent every waking minute of their lives engineering it to not change.

You can say the same for plot elements as well: the chair in the bunker was initially presented as an experiment. But then we learn that, no, Sic Mundus already had a way more advanced portal and they were learning nothing. It was needless child murder all in the name of the loop. This too is a crutch of the writing, it’s applicable to literally anything: it’s not a chair, it’s a giraffe who must be smothered in jam, because that’s how the loop goes. That literally makes as much sense, being that both are fabricated from thin air and aren’t wilfully created by anyone.

 

Spoiler

I thought they did a pretty good job putting reason, motive and layer behind characters and events. I never thought about why Charlotte was given to Tannhaus, but I can see why it’d bother someone they missed to explain it. 

Having said that, I do agree with previous posts voicing the opinion  that characters trusted anybody and everybody to manipulate them for no reason. I suppose one would by nature tend to trust themselves, especially an older version, then again, Jonas heeded Adam several times even after he repeatedly betrayed him.

Free will versus predestination by fate as a theme was lost along with the labyrinth analogy with the introduction of dual worlds - which, as I have said before, hardly did the story and its original topics any good. 

 

[DaveSumm]

5 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Your second paragraph is the perfect summary of the essence of the problem. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

By introducing the duality of the world and shifting the focus to the  powerplay between two opposing forces, time itself became unimportant. Adam and Eva’s conflict could as well have been about a castle or a stock deal. The story was no longer about individuals’ fight against fate/God/the unbridled power of time. It was a conflict between two sides, two flawed humans who are both mistaken in their interpretation of events and corrupted by selfish motives. 9 out of 10 fantasy/sci-fi/adventure stories are constructed according to that pattern. There’s nothing wrong with that, per se, it was just the way season 3 lost its mystique which was one of the main qualities that made Dark stand out in the crowd.

 

  Hide contents

I thought they did a pretty good job putting reason, motive and layer behind characters and events. I never thought about why Charlotte was given to Tannhaus, but I can see why it’d bother someone they missed to explain it. 

Having said that, I do agree with previous posts voicing the opinion  that characters trusted anybody and everybody to manipulate them for no reason. I suppose one would by nature tend to trust themselves, especially an older version, then again, Jonas heeded Adam several times even after he repeatedly betrayed him.

Free will versus predestination by fate as a theme was lost along with the labyrinth analogy with the introduction of dual worlds - which, as I have said before, hardly did the story and its original topics any good. 

 

 

Spoiler

Speaking of Charlotte, she was easily the worst served character this season (not counting alt-Charlotte). She’s united with her mother/daughter, which should be a lovely moment ... but we never get to see it. She’s then apparently inducted into Adam’s way of thinking and signs up for all loop maintaining errands, all completely off screen. Did she even have a single line of dialogue all season?

 

[karaddin]

I did think the characters were speaking more in grandiose quotes than as actual people this season, but I took that as a shift away from realistic TV into more of a stage play tragedy with archetypes in keeping with the increased prominence of the Ariadne play so it didn't bother me.

11 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Your second paragraph is the perfect summary of the essence of the problem. 
 

  Hide contents

By introducing the duality of the world and shifting the focus to the  powerplay between two opposing forces, time itself became unimportant. Adam and Eva’s conflict could as well have been about a castle or a stock deal. The story was no longer about individuals’ fight against fate/God/the unbridled power of time. It was a conflict between two sides, two flawed humans who are both mistaken in their interpretation of events and corrupted by selfish motives. 9 out of 10 fantasy/sci-fi/adventure stories are constructed according to that pattern. There’s nothing wrong with that, per se, it was just the way season 3 lost its mystique which was one of the main qualities that made Dark stand out in the crowd.

 

  Hide contents

I thought they did a pretty good job putting reason, motive and layer behind characters and events. I never thought about why Charlotte was given to Tannhaus, but I can see why it’d bother someone they missed to explain it. 

Having said that, I do agree with previous posts voicing the opinion  that characters trusted anybody and everybody to manipulate them for no reason. I suppose one would by nature tend to trust themselves, especially an older version, then again, Jonas heeded Adam several times even after he repeatedly betrayed him.

Free will versus predestination by fate as a theme was lost along with the labyrinth analogy with the introduction of dual worlds - which, as I have said before, hardly did the story and its original topics any good. 

 

 

On your bolded in the first part

Spoiler

I actually disagree completely, it did reframe the plot yes but it didn't render time impotent - its the tyrant that is imposing the world in which they live. Adam chooses to try destroy everything to overthrow that tyrant while Eva chooses to serve it to preserve that which she loves under its rule. 

And bolded in the second

Spoiler

I felt like this was OK because of the moment with Jonas and Martha right after she scratches her face on the fence and he has his moment of perceived revelation and chooses to rebel against Eva's instructions thinking that he has previously obeyed. Whether they trust or doubt is irrelevant because its the same choice they have made every other time in the loop, so even when they attempt to rebel that is what already happened. They can't escape time.

We also had these moments of showing that they simply cannot die when their older selves exist, time will override their agency to the point of ensuring guns do not fire, someone will walk in and save them etc.

 

[RhaenysBee]

10 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Speaking of Charlotte, she was easily the worst served character this season (not counting alt-Charlotte). She’s united with her mother/daughter, which should be a lovely moment ... but we never get to see it. She’s then apparently inducted into Adam’s way of thinking and signs up for all loop maintaining errands, all completely off screen. Did she even have a single line of dialogue all season?

 

True. 

Spoiler

Many of the Jonas world characters as we knew them were pushed to the margin to make room for the alternate world and the five versions of Eva. Charlotte, Helge, Agnes, Tronte and Jana and as I keep complaining Aleksander were all given a bit less time than they deserved.  

3 hours ago, karaddin said:

I did think the characters were speaking more in grandiose quotes than as actual people this season, but I took that as a shift away from realistic TV into more of a stage play tragedy with archetypes in keeping with the increased prominence of the Ariadne play so it didn't bother me.

On your bolded in the first part

  Reveal hidden contents

I actually disagree completely, it did reframe the plot yes but it didn't render time impotent - its the tyrant that is imposing the world in which they live. Adam chooses to try destroy everything to overthrow that tyrant while Eva chooses to serve it to preserve that which she loves under its rule. 

And bolded in the second

  Reveal hidden contents

I felt like this was OK because of the moment with Jonas and Martha right after she scratches her face on the fence and he has his moment of perceived revelation and chooses to rebel against Eva's instructions thinking that he has previously obeyed. Whether they trust or doubt is irrelevant because its the same choice they have made every other time in the loop, so even when they attempt to rebel that is what already happened. They can't escape time.

We also had these moments of showing that they simply cannot die when their older selves exist, time will override their agency to the point of ensuring guns do not fire, someone will walk in and save them etc.

 

Spoiler

I think I understand your point, however, to me the tyranny of time still seems as though it could as well have been a social order, a religion or even a magic castle. Adam and Eva, to me, seemed to be in a tug of war, and what the rope exactly was seemed to lose its significance, as the fight was between the two parties and not one party and the rope. But I can absolutely see that it would come across differently to all of us. 
 

Yes, I do admit that the several young alter Marthas and their different number of cuts was something I struggled to follow - and quite honestly weren’t too invested in trying to follow either. So it’s absolutely possible that I missed a few things there and maybe there were traces of the free will vs predestination topic. 

 

[DaveSumm]

Spoiler

I’m trying to unpick the rules of this quantum entanglement nonsense. So let’s say that Eve uses the time freeze moment to either a) send Bartosz to stop Martha or b) doesn’t. We have to assume that the resultant reality is immediately merged into the original one, as we then subsequently see duplicate Martha interacting with other people.  
 

So why aren’t there two Bartosz’s? Why not two Eva’s to make the decision or not? What exactly are the rules on who gets duplicated and who doesn’t? If this duplicate Martha created a duplicate Jonas just by saving him from the apocalypse, why doesn’t everyone who they interact with have a duplicate created of them too?

 

[SpaceChampion]

4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

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I’m trying to unpick the rules of this quantum entanglement nonsense.

 

This way lies madness. 

Spoiler

There isn't two Eves because Martha died in one version.  Jonas dies in the other, so there isn't two Jonas.  The infinity symbol is a mobius strip -- the realities are on different sides of the strip but it only have one side.  They create and blend into each other, not immediately, but with the next iteration.  I take it as Adam's world happens, then Eve's world happens, then Adam's, then Eva's...  etc.to infinity if you want to track the causality of it all linearly.

Jonas is saved by Eve's machinations, only to be killed by Marta in the Jonas-less world.  The other version of Jonas who saved himself (going into the basement) becomes the Stranger, who stays in his own world (creating the accident from which his younger self hid in the basement), who becomes Adam who kills Marta.  Adam then captures from the Jonas-less world Marta who is  pregnant,  and tries to destroy both worlds by killing her and the baby with the dark matter wormhole (this is a total failure -- Marta doesn't even die, let alone the worlds are destroyed).  That preggo Marta goes on to kill Jonas. 

In the Jonas-less world the earlier not-pregnant Marta isn't killed by Adam because Adam doesn't exist, and she is sent by Eve to the other world to save Jonas, so he does not become the Stranger, nor becomes Adam, because Marta kills him, but only after he impregnates her.  She kills him and then becomes Eve.

Nobody is really duplicated -- it's just different iterations.
 

 

[Corvinus85]

43 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

This way lies madness. 

  Hide contents

There isn't two Eves because Martha died in one version.  Jonas dies in the other, so there isn't two Jonas.  The infinity symbol is a mobius strip -- the realities are on different sides of the strip but it only have one side.  They create and blend into each other, not immediately, but with the next iteration.  I take it as Adam's world happens, then Eve's world happens, then Adam's, then Eva's...  etc.to infinity if you want to track the causality of it all linearly.

Jonas is saved by Eve's machinations, only to be killed by Marta in the Jonas-less world.  The other version of Jonas who saved himself (going into the basement) becomes the Stranger, who stays in his own world (creating the accident from which his younger self hid in the basement), who becomes Adam who kills Marta.  Adam then captures from the Jonas-less world Marta who is  pregnant,  and tries to destroy both worlds by killing her and the baby with the dark matter wormhole (this is a total failure -- Marta doesn't even die, let alone the worlds are destroyed).  That preggo Marta goes on to kill Jonas. 

In the Jonas-less world the earlier not-pregnant Marta isn't killed by Adam because Adam doesn't exist, and she is sent by Eve to the other world to save Jonas, so he does not become the Stranger, nor becomes Adam, because Marta kills him, but only after he impregnates her.  She kills him and then becomes Eve.

Nobody is really duplicated -- it's just different iterations.
 

 

^This

Spoiler

Eva explains it to Martha when she draws the infinity symbol.

 

[Martini Sigil]

Side note: I really love the way they change scenes.... it really adds to the creepy feeling....

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

This way lies madness. 

  Hide contents

There isn't two Eves because Martha died in one version.  Jonas dies in the other, so there isn't two Jonas.  The infinity symbol is a mobius strip -- the realities are on different sides of the strip but it only have one side.  They create and blend into each other, not immediately, but with the next iteration.  I take it as Adam's world happens, then Eve's world happens, then Adam's, then Eva's...  etc.to infinity if you want to track the causality of it all linearly.

Jonas is saved by Eve's machinations, only to be killed by Marta in the Jonas-less world.  The other version of Jonas who saved himself (going into the basement) becomes the Stranger, who stays in his own world (creating the accident from which his younger self hid in the basement), who becomes Adam who kills Marta.  Adam then captures from the Jonas-less world Marta who is  pregnant,  and tries to destroy both worlds by killing her and the baby with the dark matter wormhole (this is a total failure -- Marta doesn't even die, let alone the worlds are destroyed).  That preggo Marta goes on to kill Jonas. 

In the Jonas-less world the earlier not-pregnant Marta isn't killed by Adam because Adam doesn't exist, and she is sent by Eve to the other world to save Jonas, so he does not become the Stranger, nor becomes Adam, because Marta kills him, but only after he impregnates her.  She kills him and then becomes Eve.

Nobody is really duplicated -- it's just different iterations.
 

 

Spoiler

This is a better explanation than the show gave us, but it’s not backed up by anything in the show and I really don’t think is what they had in mind. These duplicated characters immediately start interacting with other people, it doesn’t wait an entire loop. And Martha is killed by Adam, the reason it doesn’t work is because the other Martha still exists.

I’m open to keeping your version in mind during a rewatch, but it would involve some Westworld Season 1 level trickery, where scenes are actually from completely different loops and people are accidentally travelling to different loops constantly. I don’t see how we can conclude there aren’t duplicates when the characters all think there are and talk to them.

Actually, I think just the whole origin-fathers-two-Tronte’s kills off your idea anyway. If one loop Martha dies, how does it all repeat again?

 

[Heartofice]

I have to say that thinking about Darks complexities has now stopped being all that fun, and is more headache inducing than anything else. 
 

I just cannot keep it all in my head. There was a point where I could build a picture of what happened,  but now I will need to construct an enormous ‘cliche serial killer wall board’ with strings, pins and newspaper clippings in order to make the connections. And there will be a shot of me collapsed on the floor amongst piles of paper crying.

[Corvinus85]

26 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I have to say that thinking about Darks complexities has now stopped being all that fun, and is more headache inducing than anything else. 
 

I just cannot keep it all in my head. There was a point where I could build a picture of what happened,  but now I will need to construct an enormous ‘cliche serial killer wall board’ with strings, pins and newspaper clippings in order to make the connections. And there will be a shot of me collapsed on the floor amongst piles of paper crying.

Just copy the one(s) from the show. 

[karaddin]

27 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

  Hide contents

This is a better explanation than the show gave us, but it’s not backed up by anything in the show and I really don’t think is what they had in mind. These duplicated characters immediately start interacting with other people, it doesn’t wait an entire loop. And Martha is killed by Adam, the reason it doesn’t work is because the other Martha still exists.

I’m open to keeping your version in mind during a rewatch, but it would involve some Westworld Season 1 level trickery, where scenes are actually from completely different loops and people are accidentally travelling to different loops constantly. I don’t see how we can conclude there aren’t duplicates when the characters all think there are and talk to them.

Actually, I think just the whole origin-fathers-two-Tronte’s kills off your idea anyway. If one loop Martha dies, how does it all repeat again?

 

Spoiler

The two worlds essentially being sequential with each other isn't called out by the show, but the Mobius strip is explicitly referred so I definitely think there's an intent for something along those lines. 

I think it's only actions taken in the fleeting+infinite moment of stopped time that result in duplicates? We don't actually definitively see Martha duplicated do we?

We see multiple versions of young Martha!2 but they're from different points along her subjective timeline, and if Adam's attempt to kill her fails then there's no need for there to be a duplicate - that's the Martha that grows up and becomes Eva.

For convenience I'm going to call her YM2, her subjective timeline goes

1) Jonas shows up in her classroom, weird shit happens that night, she starts to believe him

2) Jonas takes YM2 through the cave to the future and they see MM who convinces them to get cesium from the barrels to "change" things

3) They hook up

4) They break into the plant, YM2 scratches under her right eye making Jonas realise they are temporally close to the Martha that saves him, he assumes they did get the cesium last loop so decides not to and they go see OM2 which is exactly what happened last loop

5) YM2+ kills Jonas leaving YM2 promising to make it right

6) YM2 spends the next day trying to stop the apocalypse, convinces Bartosz to help but OMag1 and OFran1 stop them on the way to the plant and convince her to go save Jonas

7) She saves Jonas

8) She confronts OM2 who cuts her face across her left eye, tells her she's pregnant with Jonas's kid, creepy kid hugs her into submission and she's convinced to go along with it

9) YM2 is now at the point of being YM2+ from point 5) and kills Jonas

10) YM2 travels back to 1888 in world 1 and gives StrangerJonas the sphere of cesium that's necessary to get his machine working. This starts immediately after killing Jonas, she's in the same clothes and the eye wound is fresh. It's also implied later that she visits 2053 Adam before going to the past

11) YM2 travels forward to 2053 in world 1 and hangs with Sic Mundus there for a bit, before. 

12) She's put in a cage by them and

13) Adam tries to kill her and her baby with the god particle. This is the last we see of Young Martha 2, MM2 is either a duplicate or her later along her timeline

The order we see these events in is quite different though, 7 is right at the start, then 1 takes several episodes. 10 is in ep2, 11 in ep3, back to 2&3 in episode 4, 4&5 in episode 5, 6&7 in ep6,  12,13 & part of 8 in ep7, then the rest of 8 along with 9 at the start of ep8. So we see much of the last portion of timeline quite early in the season that gives the impression of there being more Martha's than there may be. 

If Adam was successful at killing her, then I don't think we know which traveling event results in her duplicate. But it's implied that the older Martha's remember all she goes through so I don't think he did.