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Dark: Netflix's Time-Bending German Mystery Series {Spoilers from page 5}

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47 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

I never knew that "Dark" was German for "Stranger Things" :P 

Seriously though, Dark, Stranger Things, IT, as long as the story is done well I hope they keep making these, sci-fi/fantasy/horror with a heavy 80's nostalgic bent, I love this stuff!

Three episodes in on this series and enjoying it. :) 

It had major Stranger Things vibes the first few episodes, with the first episode in particular feeling like it was a German remake, but I thought it had shrugged them off entirely by episode four.

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with regards to the "obvious" twists, I really don't mind a) because we're a group of well versed SF geeks, b ) because the show doesn't string such things out and isn't desperately trying to pull the wool over our eyes and c)

A body turning up in 2019 with a walkman and 80s clothing and burnt out face with the knowledge we'd already been given wasn't exactly them shying away from the fact. It's more reasonable that the characters in the show don't jump to that conclusion. As for Mikkel I think the real mystery is why he never tried to return and why he was so adamant on killing himself. That's a big decision to make to kill yourself - especially if the only reason you kill yourself is because you remember your older self committed suicide. Another loop with no beginning or end.

As for the Mads/Mads Mikkelsen thing - I spent a lot of the show think Ulrich reminded me a lot of Mads Mikkelsen.

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Yeah, I agree that a great aspect of this show is that it doesn't just constantly keep asking more and more questions without answering any of them like Lost always did.  Instead, it gradually answers questions while asking new questions to keep you invested, but I rarely felt like the show was just dragging things out like I did with Lost.  I just wish the first two big twists weren't so telegraphed.  It's not a huge issue, but the show treated them as big, episode-ending reveals when anyone who watches a decent amount of TV probably called them both way ahead of time.

The later twists are a lot better, though, and most of them are either not or less predictable. 

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They were obvious to us, but the character's reactions to them in the show were fairly realistic considering how illogical those events are. I also appreciated how Ulrich had to face similar supernatural, incomprehensible events as a police officer(more as a father and brother, though) just as his nemesis Egon had to 33 and 66 years before him. Egon wasn't incompetent as Ulrich believed. He was simply dealing with supernatural events beyond his comprehension.

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Finished it a few days ago.  Loved it.  Thought the last two episodes were weaker than episodes four through eight, but still really good.  Without thinking too hard about the other shows I've seen this year, I'd probably rank this as number one.  Just a fantastic show from start to finish.  Loved the writing, the cinematography is absolutely gorgeous (feels more like watching a film than your average TV show), and the casting seems great as well.  They did a great job of mostly finding kids/teens who looks enough like their adult versions to sell it.  Wasn't true in every case, but it was some very nice casting on the whole.

Thought that stretch from episode four to episode eight was one of the best stretches of television I've ever watched.  Just a constant series of WTF moments, enough answers to satisfy me, but enough new questions to keep me fully invested. 

Edited by briantw

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It really shot right up my list of tv favorites, blowing away most the series I've watched the past few years. On par with Gomorrah and The Leftovers.

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reaaaaally dug this show. love it. however, the apparent premise for season 2 seems kinda questionable to me. hopefully they pull it off. 

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19 hours ago, briantw said:

Finished it a few days ago.  Loved it.  Thought the last two episodes were weaker than episodes four through eight, but still really good.  Without thinking too hard about the other shows I've seen this year, I'd probably rank this as number one.  Just a fantastic show from start to finish.  Loved the writing, the cinematography is absolutely gorgeous (feels more like watching a film than your average TV show), and the casting seems great as well.  They did a great job of mostly finding kids/teens who looks enough like their adult versions to sell it.  Wasn't true in every case, but it was some very nice casting on the whole.

Thought that stretch from episode four to episode eight was one of the best stretches of television I've ever watched.  Just a constant series of WTF moments, enough answers to satisfy me, but enough new questions to keep me fully invested. 

yeah this is exactly how I felt. From about the 4th episode my jaw was on the floor mostly, there were some concepts and ideas in there which I absolute loved:

Spoiler

Mikkel being the father and having stayed there for 33 years is such a brilliant concept and I'm kind of sad that the season ended and didn't really show any more of this or how this relationship effected other people.

The last 2 episodes were still great, but there were some things that sent niggly fears through my brain. I'm worried that the show might end up going into sci fi territory in a much blander, less interesting way than it started. I'm worried that it is introducing some characters who may be more black and white than I would hope, and I'm worried that it might be treading on some ground that other time travel stories have also worn out.. a bit like Terminator for example.

But, this show has been phenomenal. If I was a kid in 1986 and I'd come back to visit myself and tell me that I'd be watching a German show this good in 30 years time then I'd never believe me!

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On the timelines front -

Spoiler

I think looking at things as "happening every 33 years" is the wrong way to view it. It's not a repeating event, its one singular event occurring across multiple times. The 33 year thing isn't a cycle - its something that is constantly true - the sun/moon etc line up exactly as they were precisely 33 years ago every single moment. That's why when you go through the wormhole you don't get to choose the exit time beyond "+/- 33^n years". The time you are connected to constantly slides with the present.

Its unclear whether the wormhole is closed at the end of the events of the show, which is why "its all over" or simply...the murders etc that take place happened during this time, outside of this time its not used. Its also unclear whether the travel that Jonas and Helge do at the end, young Helge moves from 1953 to 1986 through the fully opened wormhole in the basement rather than going through the tunnels - when Noah and middle aged Helge use their torture chair it doesn't tear open fully like that, likewise I assumed Jonas is ripped forward in a similar fashion. Presumably young Helge returns to 1953 through the tunnels though.

 

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Finally finished this. It definitely has issues but overall it was one of the best seasons of television this year.

I disliked the overall use of the all too common Certain plot points wouldn't exist if characters close to one another could simply have a normal conversation with one another, instead of these brief 20 second interactions that end abruptly.

 

A couple of other things..

Spoiler

Why didn't Ulrich recognise the dead boy as his brother? He was what., 16 or 17 when he disappeared so he'd be vividly etched in his memory, particularly given he was dressed in 80s attire, and wearing his jacket and shoes. He must have seen his missing brother's photo a thousand times since his disappearance  so he couldn't have forgotten. But it takes ages for the penny to drop

 

 

Spoiler

And along the same vein... Mikkel travels back 33 years yet his parents, friends, classmates etc cannot recognise his likeness in 2019. Hannah for instance, meets young Mikkel in 1986, strikes up a friendship and later marries him yet never bats an eye to the mysterious disappearance of a boy in a small town whose image is on posters everywhere

Spoiler

And finally, think it's safe to assume Noah is Jonas' school friend

 

Overall I really enjoyed it

Edited by dooog

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53 minutes ago, dooog said:

 

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And finally, think it's safe to assume Noah is Jonas' school friend

 

I had the same thought, but I just can't understand how they can really feasibly explain that in a way that isn't a big letdown. What's the possible motivation for Bartosz to end up becoming that person? Does he even have a religious background? Seems like a stretch to me, all things considered.

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Also just to add... guess I should spoiler

 

Spoiler

This show really did a brilliant job in the casting department. The kid versions of the adults bear a striking resemblance in most cases, and what's more, they're also decent actors

 

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For your first issue

Spoiler

Because its utterly unthinkable (before you realise some seriously paranormal shit is going on) that a freshly dead body of a child could be someone that went disappearing at the age of this child 33 years ago. It's obvious to us outside the narrative but people just don't think like that from within. And the face was heavily burnt which destroyed the most recognisable part of the face.

As for the second

Spoiler

Again people just don't think that way. The image of a person you have is the one of the person right in front of you - the mental processing of facial recognition is a deep subconscious process, until something jars enough to essentially escalate the process to consciousness you just won't get engaged enough to consider such things. By the time Mikkel goes missing Hannah had known Michael for 33 years and her image of what he looks like has constantly morphed to look like how he currently looks. She'd have a general memory of how he looked as a child, but its very unlikely it would be enough to think this man she's known for decades is a kid that went missing in 2019. Likewise for Ulrich - his memory of his brother would slowly fade with time regardless of how much he may have wanted to hang onto it.

 

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4 minutes ago, karaddin said:

For your first issue

  Reveal hidden contents

Because its utterly unthinkable (before you realise some seriously paranormal shit is going on) that a freshly dead body of a child could be someone that went disappearing at the age of this child 33 years ago. It's obvious to us outside the narrative but people just don't think like that from within. And the face was heavily burnt which destroyed the most recognisable part of the face.

As for the second

  Reveal hidden contents

Again people just don't think that way. The image of a person you have is the one of the person right in front of you - the mental processing of facial recognition is a deep subconscious process, until something jars enough to essentially escalate the process to consciousness you just won't get engaged enough to consider such things. By the time Mikkel goes missing Hannah had known Michael for 33 years and her image of what he looks like has constantly morphed to look like how he currently looks. She'd have a general memory of how he looked as a child, but its very unlikely it would be enough to think this man she's known for decades is a kid that went missing in 2019. Likewise for Ulrich - his memory of his brother would slowly fade with time regardless of how much he may have wanted to hang onto it.

 

Spoiler

I don't see how Ulrich's memory of his brother would fade, fair enough with Hannah she grew with Mikkel over time, but in this case Ulrich would have plenty of photographs of the brother and the body that's recovered is Exactly how the boy's appearance would be etched into his memory (apart from the eye & ear disfiguration. Also, consider Ulrich searching for his son, the disappearing children would put the similarly mysterious disappearance of his brother at the forefront of his mind (it's happening to me again)  Just because the child's eyes were burned out is no reason for him not to recognise, it wasn't a casual glance either he studied the body intently. Same face (minus eyes) same hairstyle, same clothing and he likely would have even recognised the walkman.   It just seems highly implausible.

As for Mikkel, the new kid that mysteriously appeared out of nowhere into a small knit (and incestuous) community in 1986 where everybody seems to know everybody and not one person sees the resemblance.  I can suspend my disbelief in accepting the plot's wormholes, time machines and whathaveyou but not this stuff of a more practical nature.

 

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First part

Spoiler

If your memory is highly visual perhaps you would still retain it, but other people don't have visual memories. My Mum only died 3 years ago but I'm already getting frustrated at the way her image is fading from my mind. Ulrich is 15 years older than me and his brother disappeared 11x longer than that. Shortly after his brother disappeared he (presumably) lost his virginity, was arrested on false rape charges and who knows what else. I just don't see that this 'etched into memory' fits the Ulrich we're shown in 1986.

And second part

Spoiler

I'm not sure how you mean, if you mean that there would be familial resemblance that would be noticed - I don't actually have an argument against that. I did think a bit weird how incurious everyone in 1986 was about this new, injured kid that just showed up out of nowhere and there likely would be a familial resemblance of some kind.  If you mean they would remember that Michael 33 years ago resembled this kid Mikkel now? I just don't think so. Not until you put photos side by side, and as soon as anyone saw a photo of characters that had gone back in time they recognised them there.

 

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4 minutes ago, karaddin said:

First part

  Hide contents

If your memory is highly visual perhaps you would still retain it, but other people don't have visual memories. My Mum only died 3 years ago but I'm already getting frustrated at the way her image is fading from my mind. Ulrich is 15 years older than me and his brother disappeared 11x longer than that. Shortly after his brother disappeared he (presumably) lost his virginity, was arrested on false rape charges and who knows what else. I just don't see that this 'etched into memory' fits the Ulrich we're shown in 1986.

And second part

  Hide contents

I'm not sure how you mean, if you mean that there would be familial resemblance that would be noticed - I don't actually have an argument against that. I did think a bit weird how incurious everyone in 1986 was about this new, injured kid that just showed up out of nowhere and there likely would be a familial resemblance of some kind.  If you mean they would remember that Michael 33 years ago resembled this kid Mikkel now? I just don't think so. Not until you put photos side by side, and as soon as anyone saw a photo of characters that had gone back in time they recognised them there.

 

 

Spoiler

Regarding Ulrich.

You're assuming he never looks at his missing brother's photograph, the life changing event which essentially broke his mother. The case which inspired him to become a policeman in the first place.

When he discovers the dead boy, anticipating finding his son, a more practical response would have been.

Thank god its not my son. Then who is it. Wait, he looks familiar, strangely quite like my brother from all those years ago, nah well that couldn't be. Hmmm he's dressed in mid 80s garb... is someone trying to fuck with my head here... it must be whoever snatched my boy.

 

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Spoiler

Did they even have a photo of Ulrich's brother from the day he went missing?  It's not as if they had smartphones back then.  I doubt he had any recollection of what his brother was wearing on the day he disappeared, as it was thirty years earlier and probably something he hadn't really thought of in over a decade.

 

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Its not clear

Spoiler

Whether the photo we see was from the day he went missing, I lean towards yes, but he's wearing the same clothes as in it. I don't think Ulrich had it, or maybe it was buried in albums and he dug it out? I remember him looking at it at his parents place though.

 

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