Jump to content
Lollygag

So, what's your head canon?

Recommended Posts

- Only children of Vinsenya's line inherited the fire-proof dragon-rider blood. After Rhaenarys was bumped from the succession plan, the dragon blood left the Royal line of the Targaryens, but came back into it a generation or two before Aegon V by means of a cuckolding secret bastard, possibly a strong.

-Rhaella had dragon-rider blood, but Aerys II did not. Their child Viserys does not.

-Daenarys is the bastard daughter of Ser Arthur Dayne, who had dragon-rider blood on the maternal line too (I suspect from the Seafaring Velaryons, hence she is a dragon rider and can pass dragon riding along to her kin. Rhaegar probably had the same father - at least, Aerys always suspected he did, and wrongly believed that he would therefore not inherit the fire-proof dragon-genes, which Aerys II was obsessed with recreating, and believed he possessed - hence 'Let them burn', believing he would survive the flames).

- The Arryns have a lot of King's blood and dragon-rider blood, as they have married successive female Targaryens in the past. Jon Arryn's fertility problems and Lysa's miscarriages of all his legitimate heirs arise from this.  I'm guessing the Tullys have some female Targaryens in their lineage as well.

- If Sweetrobin has dragon-rider blood, it comes from the Strong lineage of his real father (most probably Petyr Baelish - who knows his own descent, the reason his great-grandfather was exiled in Braavos, and from this stems his great desire to rule over the Riverlands from Harrenhal). Although, SweetRobin would have various old-Kings blood through both the Strong line and his maternal Whent line. These powers are more to do with stone and water and air than fire.

- The Blue Bard is Willas Tyrell and Cersei is in big, big trouble.

- Marillion lives, and lives to serve Petyr Baelish. If he didn't leave the Eyrie rolled up in a tapestry or in a chest, he is up there still, communicating by falcon, perhaps getting it to bring him meat also. Hopefully he has enough fuel and furs to survive, if he isn't down the bottom and on his merry way. The guy with the raspy voice and the blindfold who confessed, was SweetRobin's whipping boy. He is used to it,, poor sap.

-Kezmya Pahl poisoned Strong Belwas with the chilled wine. The poison (perhaps tears of Lys?) was introduce to the wine by a Pahl relative of hers when Dany's chair stopped due to the collapsed palanquin-bearer. Luckily for Strong Belwas, he was taking the hot, purging spices, that were also super sweet (protecting his stomach from being stripped), and did not drink the poison on an empty stomach. Also he was very strong, and could afford to lose a bit of weight and condition in his convalescence.  The Pahls intended target was Strong Belwas, the former pit-fighting slave who humiliated their champion and wiped his bottom on the house colors. Apart from this instance, they are loyal to Daenarys (if only because they have faith in Reznak and know that Meereen under Skahaz and/or the Yunkai will be worse for them.) Still, one of the cupbearers has successfully got away with poisoning the wine, and all of them know it. I don't like this hair-saving spin the dagger game they are playing - saving hair of dead/absent people as a death memorial thing was  big in the 18th and 19th centuries, it looks like some kind of last-ditch suicide pact to me.

- At a certain point in time, the mirrors that reflect the light around the citidel library (instead of candles) are going to line up in an unfortunate configuration of lenses and mirrors, one that simply couldn't happen in the Maester's model of the universe. Unfortunately, before they detect the error in their model, it  will create a laser that will burn the whole library and all the books in it to the ground.

There is more. I'll add them when I think of them.

 

Edited by Walda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. R+L = J. I just think there's too much set up for it to be any other way, but we'll see.

2. Aegon is Fake Aegon.

3. Sansa is directly responsible for LF's downfall. I would be disappointed otherwise, tbh.

4. SweetRobin survives the series.

5. Jaime survives his brush with Lady Stoneheart but dies in the war against the Others in some heroic fashion.

6. Tyrion and Jaime are both not the Valonquar. If I had to say who it will be, my vote is on Arya.

7. Dany comes to Westeros in TWoW and brings some other characters who are in Essos with her...

8. Westeros is divided back into several kingdoms by the end of the series or becomes more democratic. There will not be one ruler over it all.

9. Samwell will be the last POV in the series, and will be writing a book on the Great War, titled, A Song of Ice and Fire.

10. Sansa is the Stark who remains in Winterfell, despite being the one who initially wanted most to be anywhere but WF.

11. Jon will die three times in total, the third being his last.

12. Dany will have a living child.

13. Cleganebowl will happen, and Sandor will prevail, after overcoming his fear of fire to slay his brother.

14. Arya survives the series, but decides to leave Westeros after the Great War.

15. When the Night King is defeated/dies, so is Bran. I think they're linked somehow.

These are just a few I hold close to my heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh this will be fun:

  1. Rhaego is alive he is in Vaes Dothrak raised by the Dosh khaleen to be a Dothraki like stallion who mounts the world, and not raised by a woman, who ignores dothraki rules
  2. Quentyn is alive and riding a dragon there is too much wrong abut the story we are meant to belive
  3. Sansa will end up in a winning position link queen in the north, of the trident, mountin and vale or something similar
  4. Dany, Jon and Tyrion will die for good
  5. Robb lives in grey wind at least for some time
  6. The wall will do its job the others will not come through
  7. prophecies = lies thats how george wrote all his stories and asoiaf won't be an exeption
  8. Aegon is Real i don't see anything to belive the opposite, besides the Golden company, but they are no longer bittersteels blackfyre army, they are a bunch of homeless dudes who want to go home and a dragon is a dragon
  9. Arianne will play a big role
  10. Gerrion is the shrouded lord
  11. Victarion will ride a dragon
  12. at least one city at the rhoyne and its subrivers will be ruined

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyrion will betray Danaerys for Jaime - I think that for his love of Jaime Tyrion will save his brother and betray Danaerys. I don't know if he will kill her or maybe kill her dragons or what, but he will turn on her and cause her great harm.

Sansa will claim the Rock as the new Lady Lannister - I think that in the end the West will be in chaos and few prominent Lannisters left at which point Sansa will claim the Rock as Tyrion's wife, change her name to Lannister and bridge the rifts from the past conflicts.

fAegon will never sit the Iron Throne - He will fight hard and so, but in the end he will never capture King's Landing but only ensure that King Tommen is never given the peace needed to solify his realm. The most important part will be to drive the Faith away from King Tommen and so put that wedge into place.

The new Dance will between Jon and Danaerys - Jon will get a dragon to fight the Others but in the end Danaerys and Jon will come to blows with each other.

The Tarlys will do to the Tyrells what the Boltons did to the Starks - They were both put in high places by their lieges and they both carry a red man on their coat of arms. Coincidence? I think not. The only question is who the Tarlys will betray the Tyrells to.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Urrathon Nigh-Walker, the man in Qarth with a burning glass candle, is Euron Greyjoy.
2. Euron Greyjoy is working with Faceless Men to get a glass candle (and possibly book, I am relenting on that one) for someone from the Citadel.
3. Darkstar knows that R+L=J and we will find out from Areo's perspective
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Previously in this thread I wrote, that Quaithe is Jeyne Swann, and at that time, I also thought, that Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed Crow. Well, I have changed my mind about all of that. Now I think, that Quiathe and the Three-Eyed Crow is Shiera Seastar; and about Lady Jeyne Swann, even though I still think, that she is fAegon's mother, she's not Quaithe, she is, possibly, Septa Lemore. And fAegon is, most likely, fake.

Jyana Reed is Ashara Dayne.

Gerold Dayne is working for Varys. He will join forces with fAegon and Golden Company. Maybe, Balon Swann is also working for Varys. Could be, that Mandon Moore is not dead.

Euron Greyjoy is Quaithe's ex-disciple.

Miri Maz Duur and Maester Marwyn were also Quaithe's/Shiera's apprentices.

When Dany was giving birth to Rhaego, both Quaithe and Marwyn were also present there, with help of magic, probably, by using glass candles, or some sort of shadow magic.

Rhaego is alive.

Bloodraven is binded to the Weirwood, because he was sacrificed to Old Gods by Shiera Seastar. Quaithe's mask is made of weirwood. Dany saw, that that mask is made of starlight, because Bloodraven is Sun and Stars and parallel to Lion of the Night, while Shiera is Moon and parallel to the Maiden-made-of-Light.

Serenei of Lys is Larra Rogare. Johanna Swann, the Black Swan of Lys, was Larra's mother. At some point in time, after she was kidnapped by pirates, she was working as a courtesan in the Parfumed Garden, owned by Rogare family.

Jeyne Lothston, bastard-daughter of Aegon IV, gave birth to Aegon's son, the Bastard of Harrenhal, who later became first Lord Whent of Harrenhal, and was grandfather of Lady Shella Whent, and father of Petyr Baelish' great grandfather, who was a sellsword from Braavos. So Littlefinger is bloodrelated to childen and grandchildren of Hoster Tully, whose wife was Minisa Whent. Thus all Stark-childen (not only Jon) and Robert Arryn, have a bit of dragon blood, thru Aegon IV.

The Ghost of High Heart is Johanna Webber-Lannister, the Red Widow. Jenny of Oldstones was her daughter. Varys is son of Jenny, and grandson of the Red Widow, that's why he is a Spider.

Three dragon eggs, that Illyrio gave to Dany, as her wedding present, he somehow got from mummer-dwarfs - Hop-Bean, Penny and Oppo, and they got them, as a gift from the Sealord of Braavos. It's the same eggs, that were stolen from Targaryens by Elissa Farman.

Pretty Meris is Wenda the White Fawn.

Tattered Prince is a Stark, possibly, the Wandering Wolf, Rodrik Stark.

Dany, Jon and Rhaego are three heads of the dragon. All three of them are Azor Ahai, and the promised Prince. GRRM based them on the Holy Trinity, while fAegon is based on Antichrist. He is mummers dragon, or a fake saviour. Some fragments of ASOIAF are based on the Bible, and Second Long Night is a parallel to Biblical Apocalypse. So the Bible could be used, as a source for clues, of how GRRM is planning to end ASOIAF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Megorova said:

All three of them are Azor Ahai, and the promised Prince. GRRM based them on the Holy Trinity, while fAegon is based on Antichrist.

Very interesting.  I had considered Jon (if he returns, and I presume he will) as a messianic figure, but did not make this connection.  Will have to mull this over more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Very interesting.  I had considered Jon (if he returns, and I presume he will) as a messianic figure, but did not make this connection.  Will have to mull this over more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Outline

There's a fragment in the Bible, in which Antichrist is described. Doesn't it look like fAegon's cover story? -> The Beast comes out of the sea, it has one mortally wounded head, and then that head is healed, people are in awe by this miracle, and worship that beast. Looks like Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, with mummer's dragon. Aegon was supposedly dead, his head was bashed into a wall, but he has returned from being dead, and some people of 7K will accept him as their King.

Then out of the earth comes second beast, and it has two horns like a lamb, and is speaking like a dragon. "His purpose is to promote the authority of the first beast with the ability to perform great signs, even making fire come down out of Heaven. This second beast is also called the false prophet. He speaks like a dragon commanding the people of the Earth to make an image "to" the beast"

<- And this looks like Littlefinger. Him, gathering in Darry's castle banners of Targaryens, is similar to falce prophet in the Bible, making images for Antichrist, for people to worship him. Possibly, Littlefinger is a descendant of Aegon IV and Falena Stokeworth, thru their daughter, Jeyne Lothston (who was also one of Aegon's mistresses, and, possibly, gave birth to Aegon's secret son, the Bastard of Harrenhal, who, possibly, was grandfather of Shella Whent, and father of the sellsword from Braavos, who was LF's great grandfather). Family sigil of House Stokeworth is a lamb. If my guess about LF's origin is correct, that he is partially a lamb, i.e. Stokeworth, and partially a dragon, thru Aegon IV. And he is planning to support fAegon in the upcoming war, so this elements are similar to those characters from the Bible.

Rhaego, or rather the Stallion that mounts the world, what Jorah has said to Dany about that legend, is very similar, to what was written in the Book of Revellation about Jesus, including, that he is King of kings and Lord of lords, while Rhaego was said to be Khal of khals.

Probably, there are also other parallels, but I'm not an expert in the Bible, I was just reading about this themes in Wikipedia. Also I'm not saying, that GRRM is following Biblical pattern down to a T, I just mean, that he's, probably, using some elements out of it. He was growing up in a very religious environment, so it's not unlikely, that he is using religional symbols and Biblical characters in his work. This is some of those stories, that he wrote prior AGOT, in 1978 and 1979 -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuf_Voyaging#"Call_Him_Moses"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_of_Cross_and_Dragon

If he was using Biblical themes then, so, could be, that he was also using them in ASOIAF, only more subtly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My head canon is that Cersei threw a cheap funeral for Robert then blew the rest of what she “ought” to have spent throwing a wild party with Lance and Tyrek to celebrate their triumph. There was wine. There was debauchery. There was even a stuffed Robert Doll to humiliate and debase!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Megorova Thank you for that summary. It is an interesting thought to mull over.  Biblical and mythological allusions, along with Shakespeare, are the three most common allusions/tropes that occur in literature, and they are a popular mine for various plotlines.  For instance, Shakespeare routinely uses secret identities with his characters and hides plots within plots (Multiple characters in Measure for Measure, The Gadshill Robbery in Henry Iv Part I and The Mouse Trap play in Hamlet) to reveal other things.   In short, it would not surprise me if there are multiple allusions and homages to other authors and other literary works, but there may not be direct comparisons or adaptations; I think it is more like that if we feel that something or someone is an allusion, we should look at the original work and see what is alluded to is all about, and then ask ourselves what that could mean for the character, event, etc in question in ASOIAF. 
For example: House Jordayne of the Tor - this is a reference to Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time.  I have not read it myself (my husband is pestering me to do so, however, just like he pestered me to read Game of Thrones, so I will certainly be doing it at some point) but it is my general understanding that magic is fairly prevalent in that book.  Now, this could simply be a homage (I suspect it is) or it could be an allusion to magic itself - could magic be more prevalent in Dorne than we are being led to believe?

Another example: Three heads of the dragon as being the holy trinity - we should be asking ourselves how the holy trinity works in the Biblical text and then reflect on how that knowledge could apply to the story at hand.

I will give a third that backpacks off of what you said:
Messianic figures in literature are characters that our resurrected to serve a purpose, typically as a savior.  You mention Dany as a third head of the dragon, but interestingly, she sees herself as a savior and is often thought of as Azor Ahai.  Technically though, she did not die when she walked into that pyre. She may fit the false prophet bill better than Littlefinger.
^I don't know if I believe that she is a false prophet figure, but I am throwing that out there as something that, if we are going to talk about it, is worth addressing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I will give a third that backpacks off of what you said:
Messianic figures in literature are characters that our resurrected to serve a purpose, typically as a savior.  You mention Dany as a third head of the dragon, but interestingly, she sees herself as a savior and is often thought of as Azor Ahai.  Technically though, she did not die when she walked into that pyre. She may fit the false prophet bill better than Littlefinger.
^I don't know if I believe that she is a false prophet figure, but I am throwing that out there as something that, if we are going to talk about it, is worth addressing.

My guess, is that Dany is GRRM's parallel to Mother Mary. Mary's main role was to give birth to Jesus. So Dany may be the Woman of the Apocalypse, who was also mentioned in The Book of Revellation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_of_the_Apocalypse

That woman was pregnant, and the Dragon/Devil was chasing her. She gave birth to a son, and her baby was taken by God, and after that she has escaped into wilderness. Looks similar to Varys trying to poison Dany, Dany giving birth to Rhaego, Rhaego "dying", and Dany going with her khalasar into Dothraki Sea and Red Waste, i.e. wilderness.

That woman is described as being clothed with the sun. On pictures it looks like she's burning

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/The_Great_Red_Dragon_and_the_Woman_Clothed_with_the_Sun.jpg/800px-The_Great_Red_Dragon_and_the_Woman_Clothed_with_the_Sun.jpg

So Dany, going into Drogo's funeral pyre, is similar to "being clothed with the sun".

On many pictures Mother Mary is portrayed with sun rays behind her, i.e. she's clothed in the sun. And on many pictures her heart is burning, and pierced with a sword (or with seven swords). <- GRRM's Nissa Nissa, and Mhysa/mother of slaves.

It isn't necessary for someone to die, and be resurrected, to become a messianic figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Megorova  I will have to read up on that some.  Those are some interesting parallels that you have drawn and I want to explore them further!

And certainly, you are correct. Messianic figures are savior figures, and thus they do not have to die and be resurrected.  It can also be a metaphorical death and resurrection, which could feasibly apply to Daenerys.  I spoke (er, typed) hastily and incorrectly. This is my basic point - messianic figures traditionally follow an archetypal pattern: The Chosen One, True Companions who follow him, Betrayl by one of followers, Persuecution by non-believers, Crucified Hero Shot (I think the TV show is setting this up more than the books, because they literally put a cross in front of him as he was stabbed.), a Figurative or Literal Resurrection and the Second Coming.  But death is a very common way of this being fulfilled in literature (also, resurrection does not necessarily mean full-bodied; ghosts and spirits count as well.) 

Another theme is baptism by water - if a character is engulfed in water, a change usually follows them.  This screams Tyrion in Dance to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ll make my list.

Littlefinger indirectly masterminded Robert’s Rebellion to get Brandon Stark killed by mixing up messages; he’s that petty.

Pyp is a bastard of House Florent; he’s got the ears.

Tywin had sex with Joanna, then Aerys raped her shortly afterward, muddying the waters over whether or not Tyrion is his; Tywin (possibly) knows this and tried to resign over it.

Littlefinger has sent an assassin (or a whole bunch) after Tyrion; he wants to take Sansa for himself and can’t marry her until Tyrion’s dead.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Littlefinger indirectly masterminded Robert’s Rebellion to get Brandon Stark killed by mixing up messages; he’s that petty.

I actually agree that is a possibility. I'm in the middle of another thread trying to hammer out the RR timeline and I think knowing how far in advance the duel was to the taking of Lyanna is essential to knowing if this is true!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melisandre is older than she looks for sure.

I always thought that Mariah Martell had a large influence on Dareon and the ruling of the kingdom but in F&B it's said that Alysanne Targaryen was the most politically involved queen of Westeros, bummer.

I used to think that the possibility of Tyrion being the son of Aerys and Rhaella was a deliberate misdirection/ red herring, but after F&B I'm not so sure. However a large part of me still really wishes he isn't.....idk him being a Lannister is thematically more interesting and poignant to me, after all Tywin did to him. 

My headcanons for the ending (so not exactly headcanons) are:

  • Dany and Jon die heroically along with the dragons (if the 3 last that long and i'm not sure if Jon will ride one tbh) but Tyrion survives
  • Either Bran remains in the cave or goes back to Winterfell. I'd actually love if both he and Rickon survived and ruled Winterfell after the end, maybe with Rickon as king and Bran as an adviser.
  • Following from the above, I think Westeros will go back to being separate kingdoms, or at least the North, and Dorne.

As far as the other characters I really don't have specific wishes. There's things I wish could/would happen - like Sansa warging something, or Aegon being real after all, or Jon and Dany not happening romantically lol - but anything Martin decides will be okay with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stannis dies a hero fighting off an impending invasion of The Other after liberating the North from the Boltons. That's the only big one that I still somewhat hopelessly hold on to at this point.

Oh yeah and Darkstar at some point wanders into a ruined Red Keep, sits on the Iron Throne for a few minutes, decides its uncomfortable, takes a shit on it and then walks out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2018 at 9:11 AM, Blue Falcon said:

The new Dance will between Jon and Danaerys - Jon will get a dragon to fight the Others but in the end Danaerys and Jon will come to blows with each other.

+1 for Jon vs. Dany dancing.

Jon is the Prince who Was Promised ...promised to fuck things up unintentionally.

Dany becomes Azor Ahai, which means pulling a Theon and burning Winterfell.

Jon loses an eye, or both eyes, and gets burned up pretty bad fighting Dany.

In addition to Jon, Dany also tries to kill Gendry - and succeeds.

This in turn causes Arya to assassinate Dany, perhaps wearing Missandei or Jorah's face (just for that Red Wedding style gut-punch).

Sansa escapes the Vale by a wildling attack at the tourney--specifically a stealing by Timett then a kidnapping by Shadrich then an escape up north to Jon.

Jon and Sansa married as king/queen, with a new House name and new capitol, somewhere in the Riverlands.

Bran defeats the Others (Dragons are useless and hate the cold).

Theon kills a dragon with those wicked archery skills.

Brienne forms a new kingsguard - one without the vow of celibacy so she can do Jaime.

Arianne does not ally with fAegon because she sees through the ruse. Dorne turns against all Targaryens. fAegon takes a big hit from the grey plague. Golden Co. join Dany after he dies.

Tyrion's 3rd trial - this time for something he actually does. I think he'll try to "consummate" with Sansa so he can claim Winterfell for Dany's cause, but the Starks execute him for this.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2018 at 10:16 AM, Euron Lannister said:

oh this will be fun:

  1. Dany, Jon and Tyrion will die for good

You are the wind beneath my wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×