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What's your Nissa Nissa theory?


AlaskanSandman

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Very possible. I have discussed else where in another thread what may have been happening in the Tent with Mirri Maz Dur. 

The main thought seemed to be that Mirri and Dany accidentally bonded dragons to Dany's blood again. Something possibly lost during the Dance of Dragons. 

Though, by mixing Firewyrms and Wyvers, you would essentially do this same thing as described above. Spending to much time in your beast is risky because you can get lost in your beast, and your beast possibly lost in you. 

Being that who ever back then would have gone through trial and error to succeed, they had to have spent too much time doing it. Else wise, why create a rule against doing just this?

The other rule about taking control of some one makes me wonder about Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa's myth and why either of them would do this thing. How did Azor get this idea? A vision perhaps? Why did she present her chest to him? Choice? or lack of control? 

There is alot to go on, which i why i really try hard to not ignore any and all clues. 

I think there is a lot of allegory going on in the Nissa Nissa myth. I think she died in childbirth, for example, so that kind of changes a lot of the context. I think AA knew what he was doing, NN probably not. Azor Ahai's inspiration depends on who AA is- my main guess is that he is the Bloodstone Emperor and that the three forging attempts are children he fathered on different women.

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1 minute ago, hiemal said:

I think there is a lot of allegory going on in the Nissa Nissa myth. I think she died in childbirth, for example, so that kind of changes a lot of the context. I think AA knew what he was doing, NN probably not. Azor Ahai's inspiration depends on who AA is- my main guess is that he is the Bloodstone Emperor and that the three forging attempts are children he fathered on different women.

Hmmm, that's an interesting idea with the children. I like that. I very much think the metaphor could be representing multiple things at once.

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I would also like to add that in the real world. Written language can be traced to 3 areas of independent origins, but only 2 are agreed upon. The 3 being the Indus, the Middle East, and Meso-America. 

The Middle East and Meso-America are the only 2 agreed upon independent origins of writing. 

One could argue that the link between the pyramids of Meso-America and the Middle East suggest a connection. 

Cortez was welcomed by the Indians based on old beliefs of theirs that they were visited by what sounds like a white man from the east. 

So it could be argued that their is only 1 origin. 

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6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Hmmm, that's an interesting idea with the children. I like that. I very much think the metaphor could be representing multiple things at once.

Almost certainly. GRRM seems to love working in threes prophetically. We do have magic swords, after all. My current favorite (wild) guess on the Nissa Nissa thing is that she is the Amethyst Empress- elder twin sister to the BSE. Younger brother leaves court, travels abroad and learns disturbing secrets and does disturbing things before returning home and putting it all together in the third phase of the Lightbringer incident.

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1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I would suggest that Martin is smarter than me and equally aware of these real world legends and has included these concepts into his story. 

Though i do wonder where his Atlantis is

Valyria (although it is equal parts Melnibone).

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6 minutes ago, hiemal said:

Almost certainly. GRRM seems to love working in threes prophetically. We do have magic swords, after all. My current favorite (wild) guess on the Nissa Nissa thing is that she is the Amethyst Empress- elder twin sister to the BSE. Younger brother leaves court, travels abroad and learns disturbing secrets and does disturbing things before returning home and putting it all together in the third phase of the Lightbringer incident.

That i can completely get on board with!! I tend to link him to Brandon the Builder, which would explain the ruins in Sothoryos, Asshai, Stygai, and Pyke, Hightower base, and Moat Cailyn to name a few of his lasting legacy.

Garth= God on Earth

Pearl Emperor= Garth the Gardener (Liel Elder brother?)

Opal Emperor= Brandon of the Bloody Blade (Edit) The Grey King

His kids

Amethyst Empress = Nissa Nissa the blue eyed bride

Bloodstone Emperor = Uthor- Hugor- Huzhor- Azor- Eldric- Brandon the Builder- Knight's King. 

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6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That i can completely get on board with!! I tend to link him to Brandon the Builder, which would explain the ruins in Sothoryos, Asshai, Stygai, and Pyke, Hightower base, and Moat Cailyn to name a few of his lasting legacy.

Garth= God on Earth

Pearl Emperor= Garth the Gardener (Liel Elder brother?)

Opal Emperor= Brandon of the Bloody Blade (Edit) The Grey King

His kids

Amethyst Empress = Nissa Nissa the blue eyed bride

Bloodstone Emperor = Uthor- Hugor- Huzhor- Azor- Eldric- Brandon the Builder- Knight's King. 

Pearl Emperor= Garth the Gardener (Liel Elder brother?) VS Opal Emperor= Brandon of the Bloody Blade (Edit) The Grey Kingfor their sister Rose of Red/Blue Lake?

Kind of a working theory i keep circling around.

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1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Pearl Emperor= Garth the Gardener (Liel Elder brother?) VS Opal Emperor= Brandon of the Bloody Blade (Edit) The Grey Kingfor their sister Rose of Red/Blue Lake?

Kind of a working theory i keep circling around.

I should mention too that the Night's King was also brought down by his brother. Making another brother vs brother with a sister in the middle.

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Though if any one looks at this, they would see my conundrum. It would seem to suggest the war started with their parents, and ending with the kids.

This does mirror the current books though. Ned and Caitlyn start the war, their kids finish it.

Though if this is the case, the Others were already around, and Dragons were possibly already around, along with Dragonsteel. 

So, what happened with Nissa Nissa? Why weren't the Others defeated? Didn't wanna kill fam completely?

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21 minutes ago, hiemal said:

Almost certainly. GRRM seems to love working in threes prophetically. We do have magic swords, after all. My current favorite (wild) guess on the Nissa Nissa thing is that she is the Amethyst Empress- elder twin sister to the BSE. Younger brother leaves court, travels abroad and learns disturbing secrets and does disturbing things before returning home and putting it all together in the third phase of the Lightbringer incident.

I would guess that these three children, are responsible for the rise of Valyria, House Stark, Dayne, and possibly others. But that's as far as i can wrap my head around this line of thought yet hahah I can't figure out how Nissa Nissa in this situation would result in the End of the War, or how it connects to the current story. 

Parents start the conflict, and the children finish it, but how? How then? and how will they now? Will it even be the same? I like to think Winter will go back to normal by stories end. 

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Unless...

  Thats why the Wall was put up. That was their solution. 

1-kingdom-1-curse-1-wall

This could have been their final solution. 

Wall built so no more people can break the curse. 

Corpse Queen killed so they can't easily reproduce. 

Night's watch to maintain the rule of no kings or cities beyond the wall, or else Valyria is called in to regulate.

Something played out when Hardhome almost became a city, till Valyria possibly burned it down and took Dragonstone. All 600 years ago.

Idk

 

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30 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I would guess that these three children, are responsible for the rise of Valyria, House Stark

I'm with you on these two, but I think the third might be Greyjoy. To the point that I actually think the Amethyst Empress's name may have been either Valerys or Valera (also the name Balerion probably came from her?) and the Starks might have her blood two ways- through a hypothetical BSE fathered the Warg-King scenario and by way of intermarrying with the Others to become Kings of Winter.

38 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

 I can't figure out how Nissa Nissa in this situation would result in the End of the War, or how it connects to the current story. 

Parents start the conflict, and the children finish it, but how? How then? and how will they now? Will it even be the same? I like to think Winter will go back to normal by stories end. 

Well, my guess is that Nissa Nissa became Night's Queen during the Lightbringer Incident- she is the Mother of Undeath and symbolic of magic's disruption of the natural order. Prophecy's wheel has come round again and the players assemble. If they get it right maybe the seasons will go back to normal and magic will be truly be just a thing of legend? That is what I want to see, anyways.

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9 hours ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

Nissa Nissa is an eastern legend. Every region of Planetos seems to have its own Long Winter/Long Night legend. The Eastern legends emphasize Night, not Winter. Mel is (of course) screwing up by trying to apply it to Westeros.

The present day Westerosi Nissa Nissa is of course Ned (Nedda Nedda?), who sacrificed himself to save his beloved daughter, and was killed with his own sword. That's why Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail have their strange coloring - they are infused with Ned's blood. That probably means that the two swords will be cold this time around, instead of hot. (Ned is associated with Ice.)

The swords aren't red because of Ned's blood, they're red because Tywin Lannister paid Tobho Mott to make them red.  Tobho, who has the ability to colour steel, reveals to Tywin that he was unable to deliver the bright Lannister red that he was commissioned to produce.  I don't find the colouration of these red and black blades to be what makes them fascinating, I'm much more intrigued by what it was about Ice that eluded the master smith when he tried to colour the Valyrian steel.

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I had some thoughts about this lately. It is probably completely tinfoil, but this was what came to my mind (at least partially, since some of the theory already exists) :

The prophecy might not be something that has to repeat itself (Azor Ahai reborn). What if it is the first time to actually happen, thus making it a self fullfilling prophecy? But then you might ask, where does the Azor Ahai Prophecy and all the legends that are being told came from, if it still has not happend. I thought about Bran and Bloodraven. What if Bran sees in his vision the importance of this figure in the battle with the others that will come?

At this point I am pretty sure of the "Time traveling-Bran-Theory". I strongly believe that he is the original Bran the Builder. My tinfoil goes as follows:

He influences in the past the children of the forest to fight with the humans agains the Others, but knows that he can not defeat them entirely, since they are still "alive" in the present day. He knows that they will come back, and only this figure called Azor Ahai, who's Identity we the readers still don't know and is yet to be revealed (but Bran does of course), can defeat them entirely. He learns from Bloodraven that history can not be changed, and that will be still valid, since he realises that he has to make the past happening rather then change. The past remains the same, because Bran caused the past and never changed it. A circular story. He builds the Wall, because he already knows where it stood and how it was built. And he makes the world believe, that a hero who will be reborn again who fought the darkness back and will return to help humanity again in their darkest our. Thus creating a sum of events that are necessary that lead to the birth of this figure called Azor Ahai. I believe this figure to be Jon and Danerys his Nissa Nissa. 

tl dr; Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa are not historical figure but figures who are born when the story beginns. 

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8 hours ago, hiemal said:

I'm with you on these two, but I think the third might be Greyjoy. To the point that I actually think the Amethyst Empress's name may have been either Valerys or Valera (also the name Balerion probably came from her?) and the Starks might have her blood two ways- through a hypothetical BSE fathered the Warg-King scenario and by way of intermarrying with the Others to become Kings of Winter.

Well, my guess is that Nissa Nissa became Night's Queen during the Lightbringer Incident- she is the Mother of Undeath and symbolic of magic's disruption of the natural order. Prophecy's wheel has come round again and the players assemble. If they get it right maybe the seasons will go back to normal and magic will be truly be just a thing of legend? That is what I want to see, anyways.

I can agree to this

Here's an interesting find i think helps prove Brandon the Builder was Uthor of the Hightower. Snippet from another thread

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

"Some say he was a Bolton," Old Nan would always end. "Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down." She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. "He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room."

No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we'll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night's King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it's getting dark.

This is interesting in that we never hear of his brother's name until TWOIAF, from Maester Yandel. Where ever he got his source, claims, the Night's King's (Whom Nan names Brandon) was brought down by Brandon the Breaker (whom Nan claims was brother to the Night's King). I hate to question Old Nan, but this time i have to a lil. Idk. At least that both were named Brandon. Unless Brandon means something else in this world and was a title at first. ? 

                          (As i typed i looked it up-   

Quote

 The name Brandon is an English baby name. In English the meaning of the name Brandon is: Derived from a surname and place name based on the Old English for 'hill covered with broom'. Broom is a prolific weed. Also, 'From the beacon hill'.

Wellllll now, this issss interesting. I can't believe i never noticed this before hahaha (My brother's name is Brandon also ha!) 

Beacon Hill? Hightower? Uthor of the Hightower who i link to Brandon the Builder in other threads. Any ways. Back on topic.

Nan.

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