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Worst theory you've ever heard


Livesundersink

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On 12/12/2017 at 5:00 PM, Jova Snow said:

Lyanna is Knight of the Laughing Tree, the knight was referred as male always and so there is no mystery about his gender

Have you ever seen As You Like It?

Or Shakespeare In Love?

Or Some Like It Hot?

Or Mrs. Doubtfire?

Or many others too numerous to mention wherein a character disguises him/herself as the other gender in order to hide or to do something they otherwise wouldn't be allowed to do as themselves? It's actually a very common trope in books, movies and stories.

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1 hour ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:
On 13.12.2017 at 3:00 AM, Jova Snow said:

Lyanna is Knight of the Laughing Tree, the knight was referred as male always and so there is no mystery about his gender

Have you ever seen As You Like It?

Or Shakespeare In Love?

Or Some Like It Hot?

Or Mrs. Doubtfire?

Or many others too numerous to mention wherein a character disguises him/herself as the other gender in order to hide or to do something they otherwise wouldn't be allowed to do as themselves? It's actually a very common trope in books, movies and stories.

:agree:

Chinese legendary hero Mulan. She pretended to be a man for 12 years, and other warriors didn't realise that she was a woman. And there was Pope of Vatican, who was actually a woman.

But for a female, that wants to participate in a Tourney, there's no need to disguise herself, aside from wearing armour and helmet, and tying her hair to hide it.

GRRM gave to readers a hint, about real identity of a mystery knight - it's "his" booming voice. To hide that she's a woman, Lyanna intentionally was speaking with altered voice, making it sound loud and rought, as male's voice. Because how come, a knight with an average height (some characters thought, that it was Howland Reed, so the mystery knight wasn't tall), had a booming voice?

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On 12/9/2017 at 2:29 PM, Damon_Tor said:

Well, for one, I despise the misuse of the word "theory". The word you want is "hypothesis".

To the point, my least favorite hypotheses are the "ships". I despise ships. I'll take a 2000 word crackpot about Hodor and Catlyn's lovechild over a 2000 word essay about shipping any day.

SanSan shippers are the worst. They absolutely make me hate ships. Jonsa is a joke but their shippers are not as obnoxious nor do they act as if they know the end game of certain characters.

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On 12/9/2017 at 2:50 PM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

I personally blame the dude who wrote

Arya will be more forgiving ... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.

for this one. Nice fanfiction, bro.

George cleared this up in an interview that was posted here.  http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/140333-dinner-with-grrm-what-should-i-ask/&page=4

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18 hours ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Have you ever seen As You Like It?

Or Shakespeare In Love?

Or Some Like It Hot?

Or Mrs. Doubtfire?

Or many others too numerous to mention wherein a character disguises him/herself as the other gender in order to hide or to do something they otherwise wouldn't be allowed to do as themselves? It's actually a very common trope in books, movies and stories.

Your point is 100% correct for the trope. The one and only problem I have with Lyanna being knight of laughing tree is that she so soundly defeats three squires and not just in a fight  but in jousting. It would maybe be easier to believe if it was a melee. But jousting is a skill that is a) taught to squires by knights and b ) not taught to northerners. I would imagine that even a full grown, seasoned Jon Snow would have trouble unseating a amateur jouster like a squire in the same way that Michael Jordan had problems playing baseball or Shaq had problems acting. Her age, her size and her gender not withstanding, there is no reason to think that a person with zero training could unhorse not one (maybe get lucky) but three separate squires in a tourney

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33 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

But jousting is a skill that is a) taught to squires by knights and b ) not taught to northerners

Brandon Stark competed in the tourney and was unhorsed by Prince Rhaegar. Jory and a few other members of Ned's guard likewise compete in the Hand's tourney. Ser Jorah Mormont also won the tourney at Lannisport after the Greyjoy Rebellion.

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1 hour ago, YOVMO said:

The one and only problem I have with Lyanna being knight of laughing tree is that she so soundly defeats three squires and not just in a fight  but in jousting.

She didn't defeated squires. The mystery knight fought against masters of those three squires. She defeated three knights. Squires don't participate in tournaments, they have no right to be contestants. For example Dunk in The Hedge Knight story, had to prove to people that he is a knight, to be able to join tournament.

Actually it isn't very hard. All you need to do, is just to hit your opponent sooner than he will hit you, and you also need to hit in right place and with enough force behind impact, and hold your own balance if you will be hit by your opponent. You youself don't have to be very strong to hit hard, you just need to use force of your horse's run and horse's weight. To win in jousting, all you need to have is precision and good balance.

Lyanna just unhorsed all three knights, and didn't even had to fight with a sword, against any of them.

And Lyanna was a very good rider, people even said that she was a centaur, or half a horse herself. So while riding, she was able to perfectly keep her balance, and stay in the saddle, even if she will be hit by her opponent. And she was a very skilled rider, so it was a piece of cake to calculate what should be speed of her horse, for her to hit her opponent faster than he will hit her.

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1 hour ago, YOVMO said:

Your point is 100% correct for the trope. The one and only problem I have with Lyanna being knight of laughing tree is that she so soundly defeats three squires

She actually defeats the 3 knights whose squires had bullied Howland Reed… I too have a problem with this; even if she were a first class rider, with excellent balance, etc., she probably never trained with long spear and full armor…

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1 hour ago, Livesundersink said:

Brandon Stark competed in the tourney and was unhorsed by Prince Rhaegar. Jory and a few other members of Ned's guard likewise compete in the Hand's tourney. Ser Jorah Mormont also won the tourney at Lannisport after the Greyjoy Rebellion.

I will discount Jorah because he was an anointed knight which means he had learned to joust, but I can't argue about Brandon and Jory. I never picture Northerner's jousting though.

I suppose it is possible that Lyanna has some training in the joust. It still seems totally implausible that a 12 year old Lyanna would be up to Jousting with squires even if she was an excellent horseback rider. I def concede your point as you have made it clear, but I still find it unlikely that she would have been trained in the joust and been trained well enough to beat three separate squires. The best I can give you is moving it from impossible to unlikely in my mind, but well argued for sure.

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

She didn't defeated squires. The mystery knight fought against masters of those three squires. She defeated three knights. Squires don't participate in tournaments, they have no right to be contestants. For example Dunk in The Hedge Knight story, had to prove to people that he is a knight, to be able to join tournament.

A million apologies! you are 100% right. I am at work and not thinking straight, but totally my fault.

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Actually it isn't very hard. All you need to do, is just to hit your opponent sooner than he will hit you, and you also need to hit in right place and with enough force behind impact, and hold your own balance if you will be hit by your opponent. You youself don't have to be very strong to hit hard, you just need to use force of your horse's run and horse's weight. To win in jousting, all you need to have is precision and good balance.

Here you are incorrect. This is like saying it isn't hard to hit a homerun against a major league pitcher, you just have to make solid contact with the ball in the right position with the right part of the bat. It may seem like a simple thing in physics, but I assure you that charging down a knight with lance in hand and landing a shot good enough to unseat him is not only not easy, but for someone with no training nearly impossible.

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Lyanna just unhorsed all three knights, and didn't even had to fight with a sword, against any of them.

I would find her beating them in a sword fight or melee more plausible

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

And Lyanna was a very good rider, people even said that she was a centaur, or half a horse herself. So while riding, she was able to perfectly keep her balance, and stay in the saddle, even if she will be hit by her opponent. And she was a very skilled rider, so it was a piece of cake to calculate what should be speed of her horse, for her to hit her opponent faster than he will hit her.

I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your concept of the skills required for a joust. There were tourney's and champions for a reason. This was a sport of skill (as opposed to the melee) and precision. Saying that anyone with balance can do it is like saying that anyone who can run fast can be a pro running back.

 

1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

She actually defeats the 3 knights whose squires had bullied Howland Reed… I too have a problem with this; even if she were a first class rider, with excellent balance, etc., she probably never trained with long spear and full armor…

AS before, I totally apologize. Of course it was the knights and not the squires. I had a moment in the brain box and I thank you for pointing it out. It is suggested above that any good rider with balance could joust but even assuming that she could, without formal training, charge past the nerves, support the weight of the armor, hold, much less aim the lance, hit in such a way that the force doesn't break the lance but knocks the other rider down AND keep her seat all at the same time she would still have to do it all against the westerosi version of pro athletes. Is it possible? Sure. This is ASOIAF. But I am going to need some seriously convincing evidence or the word of grrm himself to really believe it.

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The mystery knight beating those knights doesn't mean they didn't come out of it unscathed, though. I don't think they would have had an easy time of it. We've seen injuries and death in jousts. Lyanna may have been an excellent horse rider, doesn't mean she didn't come out of this bruised and battered or that she didn't come close to being unhorsed by her opponents.

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4 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Huh, easiest answered question I've seen asked on this forum. No, she absolutely is not.

Arguing otherwise would demonstrate a poor understanding of not only the definition of a pshyco/sociopath, but also of the actual character that GRRM has written.

She kills people out of anger, hate and vengeance not in self-defense. She joined best assassins guild because she wants to kill people she hates and in the process of training she kills random people, she didn't join them because she had 10 children to feed and the money was good.

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