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The Last Jedi: Here There Be Spoilers


AndrewJ

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5 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I liked Benicio Del Toro. His character's involvement in the plot was mostly idiotic and heavy handed, but he seemed like a fun guy.

I thought they could have done so much more with him too.  I'll wager his character will be in the next film, some sort of redemption/save the day arc.  I'd thought there was a good chance he would be from the Rebels animated series, an older version of Ezra Bridger.  That not being the case, I do wonder now if Ezra will survive the end of his series, only 3 or 4 episodes left due to air in the next couple/few months sometime. 

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1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

Or maybe a lot of people just like the film?

 

I assume that's directed to me.

It's a nonsense argument. A lot of people liked TFA and it was luke warm derivative bollocks.

The most blatant example of this is from The Wire. S1 had 80% on metacritic - the lowest rating of all 5 seasons despite being arguably the strongest. Even he 5th season, the weakest by a country mile has a rating of 84.

Season 5 of The Walking Dead is the highest rated season on RT. It was garbage. I'm sure more people watched it than S1 and it was awful popular but then, a lot of people watch American Idol too.

Critics are weathervanes

 

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20 minutes ago, dooog said:

 

 

It's a nonsense argument. A lot of people liked TFA and it was luke warm derivative bollocks.

 

 

So your opinion is the correct one?  I'm just trying to understand whose opinion I should listen to.  I mean I know a lot of people who loved TFA, but according to you it was "luke warm derivative bollocks".  So whose opinion is correct.

I get it.  You didn't like the movie along with all those examples you gave (which, by the way, were all opinion based) and I'm fine with that.  I gave up a long time ago careing whether others liked the things I liked.  My question to you is, why do you care what critics or fans or people who like the movie think? 

You didn't like it, for which I'm sorry because I hate to see anyone waste time on something they didn't like, but that doesn't mean that others can't like it.

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I saw The Last Jedi earlier today and loved it. I believe I am among the ten or so people on Earth who enjoyed The Force Awakens, Rogue One, and The Last Jedi. All had flaws, but I'm okay with that.

I like that Rey isn't related to any well-known characters, but after all the build-up in TFA, I do wish her family was given more of a backstory than "they were drunks, they gave you away, then they died." Hopefully there is more to learn about Rey's background in the final movie. 

Snoke's death was a pretty good twist, in my opinion. I do hope we learn more about him in the EU.

For whatever reason, I found Hux very amusing. (And is it just me, or is Domhnall Gleeson in basically every movie these days?)

The weakest part for me was the Rose/Finn subplot. I like Finn a lot, so it was disappointing to see him sidelined for so much of the movie. Poe, on the other hand, was much more fleshed out this time, and I found him much more engaging.

I think one of the reasons why I wasn't disappointed by this movie was because it didn't necessarily shake any of my convictions. A lot of people jumped on the Grey Jedi bandwagon after reading the line about "the resolving of grey through refined Jedi light" in the TFA novelization, but I didn't take that to mean that the Jedi needed to become "grey." Since this is an ASOIAF website, we've all talked about how grey = moral ambiguity ad nauseum, and that's usually true for literature in general. The way I looked at it,  the Jedi of the prequels were the grey ones--they were cold, arrogant, rigid, and allowed themselves to be swayed by politics. Therefore, that ambiguity could be "resolved" by the new Jedi going back to their roots, and following a purer or "refined" course of action, like we saw with Ahsoka and Qui-Gonn, who were about as pure of light-side users as could be, but did not agree with the Jedi Council's dogma. 

Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill both did a hell of a good job in this movie. My favorite scene in the movie was Luke's death, and the peace he found when he looked to the sky and saw two suns, with the music to match. (Remember how Han said in Return of the Jedi that Luke was going to die on Tatooine? Well, I guess he was right, from a certain point of view).

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Oh I loved both TFA and R1 so you're not alone.

I'm also one of the 2 or 3 people on earth who don;t think The Wire is the greatest tv show of all time.

Edit: I'm pretty sure we'll get Snoke's backstory at some point.  They have said they fleshed it all out and that we would not get it in ep 8, so I would not be surprised if we get a Snoke novel or if Johnson's unnamed trilogy addresses it somewhat.

And yeah, Domhnall Gleeson is everywhere, and possible always has been, I had no idea he was in Harry Potter 7 and I was surprised on re watch when I recognized him.

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9 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

So your opinion is the correct one?  I'm just trying to understand whose opinion I should listen to.  I mean I know a lot of people who loved TFA, but according to you it was "luke warm derivative bollocks".  So whose opinion is correct.

I get it.  You didn't like the movie along with all those examples you gave (which, by the way, were all opinion based) and I'm fine with that.  I gave up a long time ago careing whether others liked the things I liked.  My question to you is, why do you care what critics or fans or people who like the movie think? 

You didn't like it, for which I'm sorry because I hate to see anyone waste time on something they didn't like, but that doesn't mean that others can't like it.

 

I was questioning why TLJ has received such overwhelmingly positive reviews this past week.  Now, I took a poor view of the movie but it's not all about me, if we look through this thread it's probably slightly over half with a negative take on it.  If I look at a pretty reliable Movie forum that I frequent, the negative feedback for this movie is around the 70% mark, so again, the gushing from IMDB, Rotten Tomatoes etc leaves me a little perplexed.

I gave examples of the official critics being slow to both recognise something that's great and recognise when something once great is in decline.  Star Wars is raking it in at the box office but it's almost as empty as the Fast and Furious franchise - which by the way I think is pure shit, but hey, that's just my opinion.

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19 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

So your opinion is the correct one?  I'm just trying to understand whose opinion I should listen to.  I mean I know a lot of people who loved TFA, but according to you it was "luke warm derivative bollocks".  So whose opinion is correct.

I get it.  You didn't like the movie along with all those examples you gave (which, by the way, were all opinion based) and I'm fine with that.  I gave up a long time ago careing whether others liked the things I liked.  My question to you is, why do you care what critics or fans or people who like the movie think? 

You didn't like it, for which I'm sorry because I hate to see anyone waste time on something they didn't like, but that doesn't mean that others can't like it.

Oh, well, my opinion is always correct, because my user icon is so awesome.

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Allegdely, and I only read this one place, so I;m not saying its been confirmed, and also I;m not saying you can't hate the film, but I've heard the lovely people at 4chan are trying to review bomb the film on certain sites because they think its SJW propaganda and anti-trump, I have not gone to 4chan to verify because I'll be fucked if I ever will go to that site ever, but it may be a reason why the user review scores on sites have been bouncing around so much.

Also, as others have mentioned, the reaction to empire at the time was about as mixed as this. In particular people thought Vader being Luke's dad was dumb and that Yoda was silly and unnecessary, so, grain of salt.

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4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

 

Also, as others have mentioned, the reaction to empire at the time was about as mixed as this. In particular people thought Vader being Luke's dad was dumb and that Yoda was silly and unnecessary, so, grain of salt.

The way you're going on, I wouldn't be surprised if you were using the same argument when Attack of the Clones came out.

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16 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Oh I loved both TFA and R1 so you're not alone.

I'm also one of the 2 or 3 people on earth who don;t think The Wire is the greatest tv show of all time.

Edit: I'm pretty sure we'll get Snoke's backstory at some point.  They have said they fleshed it all out and that we would not get it in ep 8, so I would not be surprised if we get a Snoke novel or if Johnson's unnamed trilogy addresses it somewhat.

And yeah, Domhnall Gleeson is everywhere, and possible always has been, I had no idea he was in Harry Potter 7 and I was surprised on re watch when I recognized him.

I'm glad I'm not alone haha. I have yet to watch The Wire, although I plan to one day.

DG was in Brooklyn, The Revenant, mother!, True Grit, Ex Machina. . . he really is everywhere.

Something else I forgot to mention is that I'm not sure how they're going to be able to redeem Kylo in the next film. Vader's redemption worked because he died immediately afterwards. Had he lived, the Rebellion would have wanted him put on trial as a war criminal. I can't see how all the people throughout the galaxy who were oppressed by the First Order wouldn't want the same for Kylo. Even if he switches sides, most people would not be able to forgive him for the people he killed or forced into submission, either personally or in service of the First Order. 

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5 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I'm glad I'm not alone haha. I have yet to watch The Wire, although I plan to one day.

DG was in Brooklyn, The Revenant, mother!, True Grit, Ex Machina. . . he really is everywhere.

Something else I forgot to mention is that I'm not sure how they're going to be able to redeem Kylo in the next film. Vader's redemption worked because he died immediately afterwards. Had he lived, the Rebellion would have wanted him put on trial as a war criminal. I can't see how all the people throughout the galaxy who were oppressed by the First Order wouldn't want the same for Kylo. Even if he switches sides, most people would not be able to forgive him for the people he killed or forced into submission, either personally or in service of the First Order. 

I have zero idea what the next film is going to be about at ALL. They really have a pretty clean slate at the moment.

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16 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I'm glad I'm not alone haha. I have yet to watch The Wire, although I plan to one day.

DG was in Brooklyn, The Revenant, mother!, True Grit, Ex Machina. . . he really is everywhere.

Something else I forgot to mention is that I'm not sure how they're going to be able to redeem Kylo in the next film. Vader's redemption worked because he died immediately afterwards. Had he lived, the Rebellion would have wanted him put on trial as a war criminal. I can't see how all the people throughout the galaxy who were oppressed by the First Order wouldn't want the same for Kylo. Even if he switches sides, most people would not be able to forgive him for the people he killed or forced into submission, either personally or in service of the First Order. 

Exile

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6 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Actually, in KoTor (Disney Cannon) the force is indeed used in such a way. And the person it was done to begins to remember and regain their powers.

Yeah, good call on KoTor. I was forgetting that. (KoToR 2 as well, if I recall correctly)

I don't think they are quite cannon yet, however. Though I think there's indications it could become so. Either way - it is definitely a strong precedent for such use of the Force.

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