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AndrewJ

The Last Jedi: Here There Be Spoilers

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The film just shot itself in the foot with just too many plot holes and implausibilities.  Saw it on Thursday, and will see it again on Sunday evening, when maybe some of those plot holes and implausibilities will not seems such negatives.

 - the entire slo-mo chase through space, which was designed to give Poe 'something to do';

 - Leia space jumping.  I mean what the actual fuck?;

 - there is only one code breaker in the entire galaxy who can do this!  But some random dude brought back does the job anyway.  

 - The terrible Dark Side power down the spooky well was what?  A hall of mirrors?

 - Hux is a acted as a caricature of an Empire general.  Terrible.

 - Captain Phasma.  Jesus wept.  After TFA we were told "oh, she'll be back, she'll have a much expanded role to play, blah blah blah".  No - she shows up, gives some ridiculous order, and then dies (or not?).  I'll be interested to go look for any interviews by Gwen about her character.

On the plus side - great acting by Adam Driver, Andy Serkis and Mark Hammill (mostly).  Lovely scene between Luke and Leia at the end, although it was filmed curiously, with camera shots of mostly one or other actor, few with both of them in shot at the same time - so not sure if this was put together from other footage after Carrie F's death, as some sort of memorial?  

Glad that they minimised the use of secondary characters from the original trilogy (Chewie, R2 and CP-3O).  At the same time, nice to see shout outs to Nien Nunb, Admiral Ackbar and original puppet Yoda.

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8 minutes ago, Arataniello said:

 - Captain Phasma.  Jesus wept.  After TFA we were told "oh, she'll be back, she'll have a much expanded role to play, blah blah blah".  No - she shows up, gives some ridiculous order, and then dies (or not?).  I'll be interested to go look for any interviews by Gwen about her character.

It's like in both movies someone had to call Gwen's agent and explain that something had to be left on the cutting room floor and obviously the monster mash/donkey run

couldn't be spared!

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Went last night. Awesome movie. My only complaints would be not enough Finn and Rey together, and not enough Finn and Poe Dameron together.

My favorite parts were Rey and Kylo interacting. Also, the fight with the imperial guard. I've wanted to see those guys in action for decades and they were just as badass as I hoped.

Was hoping for more time at the casino, but I can see why it had to be that way, with the movie already at 2.5 hours.

RIP Luke, what a way to go.

Also, I was hoping for the Knights of Ren. Maybe next movie.

Edited by Martell Spy

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8 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Also, can I say how well the trailers spoiled almost nothing? Nice job. 

They even ran ads telling people to go see it so that they don't get spoilered. It was a true warning. Despite seeing it opening night, I almost got spoilered by interviews on talk radio throughout the day. 3 times I had to frantically shut the radio off.

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Heh, I read a spoilerish thing and then I had to know one thing and then i got completely spoiled and i figured fuck it so I read the rest. It's one of those films though were I don't think the spoilers matter too much to the enjoyment of the movie versus say, an M NIght film. But anyway

I hope they don't retcon Rey's parents being nobodies. I love that she doesn't have any special bloodline or any of that crap.

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Quote

 

I disagree with this statement as much as it is humanly possible to disagree with something. *checks strongly disagree on survey).

Our opinions differ, honestly, but with a few exceptions I've hated almost every Old EU Storyline/book from 2000 on.

 

Oh, very great amounts of the EU sucked donkey balls (KJA, Crystal Star, the old YA line, about 70% of the New Jedi Order, about 90% of everything post-New Jedi Order). But so far the New Canon has managed to give us Chuck Wendig's trilogy, which rivals Kevin J. Anderson's lesser work, and has not given us remotely anything as solid as the Thrawn books, anything by Matt mofoing Stover, Knights of the Old Republic (although since the Lucasfilm Story Group has taken over the story direction of the MMO that may actually still be canon, they just need to say so), most of the classic period of video games etc.

The only thing that comes close, really, is Rebels, and I don't think there was anything in the EU that contradicted Rebels anyway (George Lucas had that whole area sealed off in the canon). I quite liked Rogue One, actually, and may even prefer it to the Kyle Katarn stories it replaced. But those stories also took place in at least two of the greatest FPS of all time, so it's kind of annoying they're now non-canon.

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Well apparently there are loads of little easter eggs and references to Old Republic stuff in TLJ, per the artbook, so that makes me wonder.

And I know I'm going to be crucified for this one, but I think Mat Stover is terrible overrated. Don't get it at all.

I also forget about fucking Wendig, shit, that was, well shit. Although I maintain that Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void is the worst Star Wars book in any Canon.

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On 12/13/2017 at 4:28 PM, AndrewJ said:

 

Oh - and on the visuals... the shot of the Resistance Cruiser doing a light-speed jump through Snoke's flagship was incredible.

Saw this movie this morning and I have to say, that scene was one of the best I've seen.  The way it was done with the silence and the pause was perfect.  You could feel the entire packed theater draw in breath and hold it.  Huge applause after also. 

I will say, as a disclaimer, that I am an easy mark with Star Wars.  I'm not hard to please at all.

With that said, I loved the movie. 

I thought every scene with Luke was golden.  He brought comedy and tension with every scene and, I think, stole the show.  His final showdown between the "empire" and Kylo was perfect.  My only gripe was that his lightsaber wasn't green (I know, petty right).  This was another scene that the audience shook the theater with it's eruption.

Kylo Ren, again, impressed me.  I enjoyed the portrayal of him in the first movie and watching him grow in this one and actually deciding that he wasn't Vader, but his own person was great.  His dispatching of Snoke shocked me.  Wasn't expecting that at all.

I liked Rey a lot also.  Her tension and stress about wanting to know who she was and where she belonged, something that the audience shared, was palpable.  Then when she found out that her parents weren't anyone, that "this isn't her story", as Kylo put it (a fantastic line, I thought) you could see a weight fall off of her.  She then decided for herself who she wanted to be.  She wasn't bound by fate or what have you.

Leia.  What can I say about her part?  I thought she was fine, but was suprised by how much she was in the movie.  Her part was well done (not sure how much was filmed before her passing).

Now the meh, stuff.

While I laughed, along with the audience, at Poe's opening sequence it felt almost forced.  The scene after it with the bombing run and destruction of the Dreadnaught was cool, but felt tacked on just to give Poe something to do.  Looked fantastic though.  I especially liked how the bombers felt like WW2 bombers in a way, with the little "ball turret" gunners.

Now we come to the side trip to the casino and the slow chase through space of the rebellion.  This strangely felt out of place to me.  Almost like in an RPG video game when the world's ending, but you stop from saving it so you can bring some wife her dead husbands wedding ring.  Again, all of the scenes were really cool and it lead to some pretty bad ass scenes with Fin and Phasma, but just felt tacked on.

Also, I'm not sure what to think about them introducing the new quirky character who was only there to betray them and get the rest of the rebellion destroyed.  I am curious if this character shows up again or not.

In the end I feel that, as cool as he is, Poe Dameron is a bit out of place and they are struggling to find something for him to do.  Should have kept him in an X-wing leading a desperate rear action trying to protect the Frigates.

Finally the dispatching of the two big mysteries from the first movie.  Who is Snoke and who were Rey's parents. 

While the Snoke question still remains, it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue now. I'm not quite sure what to think about this.  On one hand, his scene with Rey and Kylo was good and I couldn't stop staring at his face and head trying to see a resemblance to someon form the earlier trilogies.  Then his death was perfectly executed.  Yet, on the second hand, we still know nothing about him.

Rey's parents.  I for one was positive she was Luke's daughter.  I either thought he lefter her on Jakku with someone watching over her for "reasons" or thought she perished when Kylo destroyed the Jedi Academy.  To find out, according to Kylo, that her parents were nobodies was almost a blow.  I mean this series so far was all about the Skywalker family.  To suddenly have just some rando show up and be super powerful seems from out of no where.  I'm not quite sure how I feel about this yet.

In the end, love this movie.  I may not rate it as high as Awakens or Empire, but I would put it up there with Jedi and Ep 4. 

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8 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Rey's parents.  I for one was positive she was Luke's daughter.  I either thought he lefter her on Jakku with someone watching over her for "reasons" or thought she perished when Kylo destroyed the Jedi Academy.  To find out, according to Kylo, that her parents were nobodies was almost a blow. 

This puzzles me.

Rey looked about 5 or 6 years old when she was left by her parents on Jakku. She wasn't a baby. So SHE knew who her parents were, even if we, the audience didn't. So we knew she couldn't be Luke's daughter, or her "I thought he was a myth" thing in TFA makes zero sense. Likewise her reactions to Han and Leia tell us she wasn't their daughter.

Or am I missing something?

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17 minutes ago, Davrum said:

This puzzles me.

Rey looked about 5 or 6 years old when she was left by her parents on Jakku. She wasn't a baby. So SHE knew who her parents were, even if we, the audience didn't. So we knew she couldn't be Luke's daughter, or her "I thought he was a myth" thing in TFA makes zero sense. Likewise her reactions to Han and Leia tell us she wasn't their daughter.

Or am I missing something?

Honestly.  I thought it was going to come out that Luke felt that it was his fault that Ben turned and he used the Force to wipe things from her.  Then he left her with someone he thought would care for her and left to seal himself off from the force.  Granted, it may not be a great theory, but it was what I was thinking.

 

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30 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

Rey's parents.  I for one was positive she was Luke's daughter.  I either thought he lefter her on Jakku with someone watching over her for "reasons" or thought she perished when Kylo destroyed the Jedi Academy.  To find out, according to Kylo, that her parents were nobodies was almost a blow.  I mean this series so far was all about the Skywalker family.  To suddenly have just some rando show up and be super powerful seems from out of no where. I'm not quite sure how I feel about this yet.

But it’s not like we haven’t seen plenty of other super powerful Jedi/Sith in other movies. And Kylo being half Skywalker and a main character with Rey keeps them relevant. 

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27 minutes ago, Davrum said:

This puzzles me.

Rey looked about 5 or 6 years old when she was left by her parents on Jakku. She wasn't a baby. So SHE knew who her parents were, even if we, the audience didn't. So we knew she couldn't be Luke's daughter, or her "I thought he was a myth" thing in TFA makes zero sense. Likewise her reactions to Han and Leia tell us she wasn't their daughter.

Or am I missing something?

Just about all of the "Rey is special person X" theories are predicated on Luke somehow using the Force to cloud her memories. Regardless of the fact that we've never seen the Force used for anything like that - but hey... magic.

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Just now, Nictarion said:

But it’s not like we haven’t seen plenty of other super powerful Jedi/Sith in other movies. And Kylo being half Skywalker and a main character with Rey keeps them relevant. 

Yeah, I'm working it through still.  

It does set up a nice dynamic that she will need to finally end the line of Skywalker that brought so much pain to the galaxy.  Plus, as I said, I thought her relief at being free from some lineage pressure was well done.

I think I am mostly fine with it, it just seemed odd to me after having read and watched so many things having to do with the Skywalker/Solo clan, that someone other than them will come along. 

Looking forward to what they do with her and kylo in the next movie now.

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3 minutes ago, AndrewJ said:

Just about all of the "Rey is special person X" theories are predicated on Luke somehow using the Force to cloud her memories. Regardless of the fact that we've never seen the Force used for anything like that - but hey... magic.

Actually, in KoTor (Disney Cannon) the force is indeed used in such a way. And the person it was done to begins to remember and regain their powers.

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16 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

It's used to wipe memories a lot in the old cannon, too.

I thought for sure I had read something somewhere about it, but couldn't remember exactly which book or what.

Besides, isn't "These aren't the droids you're looking for" basically altering memory?

 

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5 minutes ago, Fiddler said:

I thought for sure I had read something somewhere about it, but couldn't remember exactly which book or what.

Besides, isn't "These aren't the droids you're looking for" basically altering memory?

 

Jacen uses it on Ben and it has repercussions that don't go anywhere but try to. God, I still know way to much about the old EU.

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I don't know if it's just burn out leading into Christmas holidays, but the last two Star Wars movies, Rogue One and The Last Jedi, have fallen completely flat for me.  Here are a few thoughts.

1. I very much disliked the "humor" in the opening scene with Poe pretending like he could not hear General Hux.  It just did not set the right tone for me, and I didn't find the joke to be funny (and it went on for too long).  Likewise with Finn "leaking water".

2. Leia flying through space was ridiculous.  I realize this is Star Wars and you have to suspend belief to a certain extent, but this went too far.  Especially considering how Leia has never been shown to have used the force before (with the exception of knowing where Luke is, and if people close to her are alive).

3. The Casino planet did not work for me, nor did any of the other planet settings.  As much as George Lucas is criticized in the prequels for poor script writing and directing (and rightfully so), I have always appreciated the settings he created (ie. Dagobah, Bespin, Coruscant, Kamino, Mustafar, etc.).  What was up with Snoke's throne room and the "red-screen" background.  It felt like they were in a film studio.  Terrible.

4. I really hated the inclusion of a puppet Yoda.  It looked really, really bad (ie. Phantom Menace Yoda bad).  There is no reason why they couldn't have done a CGI Yoda, considering how good he looked in Episode 3.  However, If Luke was going to converse with a force ghost, I much would have preferred Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi (or even with *gasp* his father, Anakin Skywalker).  But this new trilogy seems hell bent on having absolutely zero ties with the prequel trilogy.

5. Getting no backstory on Supreme Leader Snoke bothered me.  I liked the idea that he could have been Darth Plagueis or some ancient Sith Lord.  But again, we can't have any connections to the prequels.

6. I find there are too many cuts during the lightsaber fight sequences, which make the fights difficult to follow.  This is actually a major problem I have now with most action sequences in television shows and films.  This was brought up by Elio Garcia in his analysis of the Mountain vs Viper fight in Game of Thrones, and is something I can't stop paying attention to now.  As I am watching these sequences I actually start counting the number of cuts I see.  I usually give up after counting about at least 20 in 10 seconds.

Edited by Rubicante

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The overwhelmingly positive reviews for this is a real head scratcher.

Like, I can understand fans that are so enamored with SW that they will love it no matter what, as I've seen on this thread and with TFA but why is IMDB and RT so positive?  It reminds me of GoT from season 4 onward where it took a few years for people to realise how shit the show had become. Perhaps a better example would be TWD, which hasn't been a good show since around S2, but only in recent years the "expert opinion" reviews caught up to the fact, despite the fact that current offerings are no better than, say, S4 a few years ago.

 

 

Edited by dooog

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