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Giomax

Happy Ever After?

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Assuming both Jon and Daenerys survive the books/TV series, what do you think will happen after the story ends? This goes beyond season 8 and the final book. I would love to hear your thoughts!

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Even if they survive and rule I don’t expect the ending to be a happy ever after. There are a lot of ways to create a bittersweet ending while having the principal characters survive. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BittersweetEnding

But my guess is that rebuilding Westeros is going to be a horribly difficult ardous task that would consume the rest of their lives. 

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If I remember correctly, GRRM  had mentioned somewhere that a person cannot escape resurrection without being changed or something like that. So I really don't expect them to have a typical happy ending. Also I don't see both of them surviving.

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If one character must die, do you predict it to be Jon or Daenerys? 

And if they both survive, will they stay together or go their own separate ways? Where would their (potential) child fit into all this?

If the dragons survive, what will become of them?

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On the show at least, I expect Danerys to die in childbirth, just like Rhaella, Lyanna, and Joanna.  Jon is 50/50 on survival, but their child would rule.

I'm not thinking that fire wight Jon can get Danerys pregnant if in fact he is considered dead and resurrected in the books.  If Danerys is a goner in the show then she is a goner in the books, but perhaps Aegon or Tyrion is the baby's father.  Maybe Jorah.  Who knows.  I haven't fully wrapped my head around the implications of what happened in season 7 for the books.

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11 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I haven't fully wrapped my head around the implications of what happened in season 7 for the books.

Haven't there been articles about how D&D admitted that Season 7 is nothing like the books? They admitted they are doing their own thing? Maybe it was just a season 6 thing. I have to look it up later. But it was on entertainment weekly's website I think.

 

Anyway! As far as the show, GRRM said he had three big twists he gave the show runners, burning of Shireen, Hodor back story and finally something with the end. I think the reason GRRM focused on this time period for his works, is that this is when magic came back and disappeared from the realm. so in the end, she dies and Jon lives on ruling or maybe his son/daughter does. So I think the end of the show will have all the dragons dying off. I guess her and Jon rule or maybe Jon dies again, depending on what should have happened to Aegon/Young Griff. But she loses her child and her dragon children.

As far as the books, Jon will be way different. I think his story merged with Aegon/young griff. So I think young griff will be a lot more important in the books as far as trying to take over the realm. Jon will come back from the dead for his true purpose, to fight the white walkers. His story won't really ever bring him to the Red Keep or anything like that. In the end, the dragons die in the book. Jon lives but something is different with him and he stays in the north, maybe something he has to do to make sure the WW never come back? Dany rules but loses her dragon children and probably her marriage to Aegon (something happens with him).

 

Though to be honest, this is hard, there are so many directions I think the book can go and I think the show has pigeonholed itself a bit more. But that one last big twist at the end that they are apparently going to do, has thrown me off a bit. 

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2 minutes ago, Giomax said:

Do you think the third twist is Jon's true parentage?

Maybe? But haven't they kinda done that already? Twice.... Though I guess you could say they haven't come out and said it actually yet.

Or is there another twist on top of it? They made everyone feel like R+L=J is the real deal and maybe it's not?

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2 hours ago, btfu806 said:

Haven't there been articles about how D&D admitted that Season 7 is nothing like the books? They admitted they are doing their own thing? Maybe it was just a season 6 thing. I have to look it up later. But it was on entertainment weekly's website I think.

That would make a ton of sense.  I have to research it myself.  I sort of assumed the battle of the bastards and the wight hunt were their inventions, but Jon & Danerys falling in love and going off to fight the white walkers wasn't.  What would make the most sense to me is if show-Cersei is taking part of the role of Aegon and Tommen by sitting on the Iron Throne in opposition to Cersei, and show Jon is taking part of the role of Aegon by being a rival claimant who she learns to work with.  I've long thought that the political war in the south between Danerys & Aegon & Tommen/Lannisters takes place concurrently with Stannis & Jon fighting the Others in the north, and Jon and Danerys would only meet after Stannis' death when Jon would come south for assistance.  I agree that the dragons will be gone by the end of the series (show and books) with possibly one of them needing to be killed by Jon or Danerys.

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1 hour ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

That would make a ton of sense.  I have to research it myself.  I sort of assumed the battle of the bastards and the wight hunt were their inventions, but Jon & Danerys falling in love and going off to fight the white walkers wasn't.  What would make the most sense to me is if show-Cersei is taking part of the role of Aegon and Tommen by sitting on the Iron Throne in opposition to Cersei, and show Jon is taking part of the role of Aegon by being a rival claimant who she learns to work with.  I've long thought that the political war in the south between Danerys & Aegon & Tommen/Lannisters takes place concurrently with Stannis & Jon fighting the Others in the north, and Jon and Danerys would only meet after Stannis' death when Jon would come south for assistance.  I agree that the dragons will be gone by the end of the series (show and books) with possibly one of them needing to be killed by Jon or Danerys.

you think Jon and Danny falling in love isn't their invention? A part of me wants that to not be a book thing (obviously, it could very well be). But it seems almost too cliche at this point to be in the books (then again, that's also looking at it from a show to book perspective, which probably isn't fair to do). I think Jon is going to be much different by book end and love won't be on the table. I could see a political type marriage though.

Your Cersei and Aegon comments make sense. To me, book Aegon is going to be fascinating now. I think his character has been split up quite a bit on the show and it will be interesting to see the roles he actually plays (I think it will be a fair amount).

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1 hour ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

That would make a ton of sense.  I have to research it myself.  I sort of assumed the battle of the bastards and the wight hunt were their inventions, but Jon & Danerys falling in love and going off to fight the white walkers wasn't.  What would make the most sense to me is if show-Cersei is taking part of the role of Aegon and Tommen by sitting on the Iron Throne in opposition to Cersei, and show Jon is taking part of the role of Aegon by being a rival claimant who she learns to work with.  I've long thought that the political war in the south between Danerys & Aegon & Tommen/Lannisters takes place concurrently with Stannis & Jon fighting the Others in the north, and Jon and Danerys would only meet after Stannis' death when Jon would come south for assistance.  I agree that the dragons will be gone by the end of the series (show and books) with possibly one of them needing to be killed by Jon or Danerys.

To add to my previous comment, it was season 6 they were talking about: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/23/game-thrones-season-6-wont-spoil-books/

“People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled — and it’s really not true,” Benioff told EW. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that — and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”


So I would assume season 7 is also far from the books, it would be near impossible to take the story far away for a season and then bring it back the next season. So that's good news for the books.

 

This is the article about the three twists: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/24/george-rr-martin-3-twists-game-thrones/

 

But in general it sounds like their season 6, 7 and 8 will be very different than the books with the exception of the three twists. 

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I don't think Jonaerys is the show's invention. I believe Martin once said that Jon and Daenerys meeting was the whole point of the story, and they are "the song of ice and fire" afterall.

Edited by Giomax

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20 minutes ago, Giomax said:

I don't think Jonaerys is the show's invention. I believe Martin once said that Jon and Daenerys meeting was the whole point of the story, and they are "the song of ice and fire" afterall.

Alan Taylor said that Martin told him that once the whole thing (GOT) is about Dany and Jon Snow (and not about them meeting, just them and their existence). Here is the quote: [Martin] just sort of mentioned in passing, "Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow" and at the time I thought, "Really? I thought it was about Sean Bean and Robb Stark?"

From: http://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-director-theory-longclaw-grrm-jon-dany-2017-8

Also, I think Jon is the song of ice and fire, not the two of them. He is ice and fire. But that's a whole other debate and it being about Jon and Dany does make sense.

But I don't think anywhere GRRM has stated that them meeting is the point of the story. I don't think GRRM would ever say that, his story has a lot of meaning, and that wouldn't be the main one.

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1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

Alan Taylor said that Martin told him that once the whole thing (GOT) is about Dany and Jon Snow (and not about them meeting, just them and their existence). Here is the quote: [Martin] just sort of mentioned in passing, "Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow" and at the time I thought, "Really? I thought it was about Sean Bean and Robb Stark?"

From: http://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-director-theory-longclaw-grrm-jon-dany-2017-8

Also, I think Jon is the song of ice and fire, not the two of them. He is ice and fire. But that's a whole other debate and it being about Jon and Dany does make sense.

But I don't think anywhere GRRM has stated that them meeting is the point of the story. I don't think GRRM would ever say that, his story has a lot of meaning, and that wouldn't be the main one.

Pretty sure I read that he said at one point that bringing them together was the endgame. I'll try to find it.

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14 hours ago, Giomax said:

Pretty sure I read that he said at one point that bringing them together was the endgame. I'll try to find it.

Sounds good, I would be interested in reading that. Thanks!

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20 hours ago, btfu806 said:

Alan Taylor said that Martin told him that once the whole thing (GOT) is about Dany and Jon Snow (and not about them meeting, just them and their existence). Here is the quote: [Martin] just sort of mentioned in passing, "Oh well it's all about Dany and Jon Snow" and at the time I thought, "Really? I thought it was about Sean Bean and Robb Stark?"

From: http://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-director-theory-longclaw-grrm-jon-dany-2017-8

Also, I think Jon is the song of ice and fire, not the two of them. He is ice and fire. But that's a whole other debate and it being about Jon and Dany does make sense.

But I don't think anywhere GRRM has stated that them meeting is the point of the story. I don't think GRRM would ever say that, his story has a lot of meaning, and that wouldn't be the main one.

The series was called a song of ice and fire before the jon dany relationship idea came about based on the original outline. 

Whether Grrm changed it to also mean both of them once he decided to make dany jon’s main squeeze instead of Arya who knows. 

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14 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

The series was called a song of ice and fire before the jon dany relationship idea came about based on the original outline. 

 

Didn't he come out and say the "original" outline was just a load of stuff he made up and never really intended to stick to?

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10 minutes ago, Faera said:

Didn't he come out and say the "original" outline was just a load of stuff he made up and never really intended to stick to?

Do you believe that? 

A lot of the stuff in there that does not end up happening does seem to be foreshadowed in the early part of AGOT such as something between Arya and Jon and Jaime killing his way to the throne. 

But regardless, lets say he made it all up. Does it change the point? The book series was still planned on being called A song of ice and fire as of the outline and there is no indication in the outline of any connection between jon and dany. Unless we think he deliberatley hid the jon and dany thing, i think we can still say as of 1994 the title did not seem to have anything to do with Jon and Dany. 

Of course, that does not mean as he wrote it he liked the idea of that connection and decided that it would also be a nice way to play on the ice and fire idea and so it became one of the meanings. 

Edited by jcmontea

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On 15/12/2017 at 5:59 PM, Giomax said:

Assuming both Jon and Daenerys survive the books/TV series, what do you think will happen after the story ends? This goes beyond season 8 and the final book. I would love to hear your thoughts!

I don't see Jonerys with a happy ending, it would be too much of a cliche.

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Issac Hemstead-Wright has the best quote on the ending... 

As for the expected fan reception of the series finale, Hempstead Wright was blunt: “It won’t go the way some people want,” he said. “It will be too happy for some people, or too sad, or too whatever. That’s the nature of an ending.”

http://watchersonthewall.com/isaac-hempstead-wright-game-of-thrones-end/#more-157759

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