Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

mormont

The Last Jedi, not the last spoiler thread

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Did they? In The Force Awakens, very young Rey was shown crying while watching a ship take off into space. It was heavily implied her parents, or guardians/family at least, were on it. Afterwards, she was convinced her family would return. If she knew all the time who her parents actually were, why the utterly misleading vision (junkies who had to sell her for their addiction wouldn't have money to go on such a flight, especially not if they also died on Jakku, as Kylo stated) and why the waiting? If anything, she should have been angry and dismissive of her parents if she knew all along. She should have absolutely jumped on Han's job offer, for example.

Since it's quite clear that the writing of ep7 and ep8 wasn't coordinated much, ep9 could turn everything on its head again. Rian Johnson has already indicated that much: for him Kylo told the truth as he saw it, but Abrams can do it with it what he wants in the next movie.

She was a child. I interpreted that they sold her to Unklar Plut, that doesn't mean she understood what was happening.

Of course a child would convince herself they were coming back, and delusions can become quite powerful as time goes on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Werthead said:

There is another sequence that was definitely 100% shot which was cut, which is weird because it sounds like it would have completely changed the plot of the film. In this sequence Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren show up on Irish Training Planet and have a huge fight with Luke and Rey but it sounds like are driven off.

Sounds dubious, but the article linked earlier does say that broom kid was added to the main Canto Bight sequence in reshoots. It's not clear whether the very last scene of the film was also a late addition or they just decided it needed more setup, but if it was the former, then it doesn't seem entirely implausible that the story underwent radical changes during filming.

27 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

2. No one will convince me that the Star Wars films are anything but high fantasy. There was even a sea serpent in this one! So, you know, I suspend my disbelief and replace with magic  

I expect magic to follow its own internal rules, though, however odd they might be, and I prefer fantasy to aim for a certain degree of realism when dealing with things not directly involving magic.

27 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

7. Right before Luke evoprayed, when he was staring at the suns did anyone else see what looked like a ship crossing the suns?

Yep. I was expecting it to come closer so we could see what it was. Could have been just a glitch of some kind, but it seems unlikely that something like that wouldn't have been noticed and fixed. I suppose it could have been Ken and the knights arriving for the alleged deleted scene mentioned above!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ran said:

Just to clarify, some local in Ireland reported this? That's the proof? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but some evidence of Driver being there for filming would be interesting. And actually, given the scene in the hut, Driver being on the island wasn't necessarily proof of anything...

Actually, that's a good point. They may have expanded that scene, maybe had Kylo and the Knights of Ren fighting students and burning the academy down and Hamill and Ridley were there but not filming and then cut those extra scenes. Or it was just Hamil filming. And of course Driver was there to film the Force-Skype scenes.

Quote

 

Rey's parents may be nobodies to everyone else (assuming Kylo wasn't lying or mistaken, and Rey's apparent acceptance of this is worth more than her earlier firm belief she had to wait on Jakku for her family's return), but they should still have meaning to Rey herself.

 

I'm still trying to work out how Kylo knew what he did. Did he extract the information from the Force? That's incompatible with how the Force has worked previously: you can't treat the Force as an omnipotent computer database. Did he extract the information from Rey's own mind? How, when Rey herself can't remember jack shit?

It does feel that something doesn't add up about the parent stuff, although the idea they are nobodies itself is fine. But there's a degree of incoherence and contradiction about what we're told in the two movies. But it's unclear if there is some kind of mystery or if it is down to shitty writing and the entire continuity department apparently being fired before filming started.

Incidentally, just finished Rebels Season 3 which very firmly established that Interdictor Cruisers and gravwells are still firmly a thing in the final battle. And Thrawn is wearing a stupid bucket on his head purely so the Rebels will be humiliated further when he beats them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On this subject, anyone know which leaks proved to be true? I didn't read any of them before the film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

On this subject, anyone know which leaks proved to be true? I didn't read any of them before the film.

Heh, as far as I can tell, none of them. They were really good with security.

Oh, I think the Yoda cameo leaked really, really early. Most of the stuff I clicked on turned out to be almost comically false though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

On this subject, anyone know which leaks proved to be true? I didn't read any of them before the film.

There was one about a "really big alien" on Ireland Planet and people thought he might be some kind of Mystic Guardian of the Force. Turned out to be the coastal sea cow blue milk thing.

A lot of stuff about Canto Bight leaked because it was Dubrovnik and lots of locals saw them filming, but nothing too spoilery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Werthead said:

There was one about a "really big alien" on Ireland Planet and people thought he might be some kind of Mystic Guardian of the Force. Turned out to be the coastal sea cow blue milk thing.

A lot of stuff about Canto Bight leaked because it was Dubrovnik and lots of locals saw them filming, but nothing too spoilery.

Yeah, although we did think Poe would be there. 

I don't know if even that could have saved the sequence, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Eh, flying away on a ship doesn't mean you're going to space, they could have been going to another part of the planet.

Adult Rey sees her younger self, looking up at the ship thundering off, in her vision inside Maz Kanata's place. As she is looking, the vision changes to black (in space, presumably) with the ship and a red sun visible. At least the suggestion is there.

Besides, even if it was only an aerial transport, that's still nothing for empoverished junkies. How many on Earth sell their child(ren) for some pocket money and then take off in a 747?

55 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

She was a child. I interpreted that they sold her to Unklar Plut, that doesn't mean she understood what was happening.

Of course a child would convince herself they were coming back, and delusions can become quite powerful as time goes on.

Maybe. Maz did tell her that her family wouldn't come back, and that she knew it.

On the other hand, if she was sold and she knew it, then her view towards her parents as an elder and hardened girl (very capable at surviving) should have changed from longing to anger and dismissal, it seems to me.

47 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I'm still trying to work out how Kylo knew what he did. Did he extract the information from the Force? That's incompatible with how the Force has worked previously: you can't treat the Force as an omnipotent computer database. Did he extract the information from Rey's own mind? How, when Rey herself can't remember jack shit?

It does feel that something doesn't add up about the parent stuff, although the idea they are nobodies itself is fine. But there's a degree of incoherence and contradiction about what we're told in the two movies. But it's unclear if there is some kind of mystery or if it is down to shitty writing and the entire continuity department apparently being fired before filming started.

I

On another site, I just read a claim that an earlier draft for episode 7 (possible the Arndt screenplay that was discarded) had Rey as a Solo and/or Skywalker, and that the eventual movie may still have retained elements that pointed to this while the decision had already been taken not to take her in that direction. 

One suggestion for Kylo's knowledge is that Snoke could have planted a vision when he was arranging the long range force "skyping" for Rey and Kylo.

I would still like an explanation for why Kylo acted as if he had a good idea what Rey was, from the moment word reached his ears that a girl had helped BB8 escape. Both movies play up a connection between Kylo and Rey, without any explanation. That their last contact in TLJ had both (force)tugging at Anakin's old lightsabre may be symbolic. This lightsabre "called to" Rey in Maz Kanata's place and it was the weapon of Kylo's great idol. Also the weapon which Luke chose to be in his hand during his long-range projection at the end of the movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the lightsaber breaking (and Luke pretending to wield it) was letting old things die.

Kylo thinks he wants to kill his past, Rey clung too strongly to hers, and the result was something neither of them really wanted.

ETA: I haven't been able to tell definitively, but young Ren had Anakin's lightsaber right? So his 'it belongs to me' line in TFA is kind of retroactively boned. I thought that was him claiming the (good) heritage of his idol in his blind worship of Vader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Werthead, have you watched season 4 of Rebels yet?  It's not over yet, 3 eps or so left in 2018, I'd be interested to hear/read your opinion on it once you do, as I have really enjoyed Rebels season 1-3.

Not sure if it's been said, has anyone noticed that Kylo's lightsaber when Luke was about to strike him down while asleep, is obviously the saber he used to build his new red crystal "dark" saber, just with a new paintjob and some side vents added?  The shaft and the base are identical when you look at both of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

Werthead, have you watched season 4 of Rebels yet?  It's not over yet, 3 eps or so left in 2018, I'd be interested to hear/read your opinion on it once you do, as I have really enjoyed Rebels season 1-3.

Not sure if it's been said, has anyone noticed that Kylo's lightsaber when Luke was about to strike him down while asleep, is obviously the saber he used to build his new red crystal "dark" saber, just with a new paintjob and some side vents added?  The shaft and the base are identical when you look at both of them.

No, I have to wait for the Blu-Rays which don't come out until a few months after it stops airing in the States (to my knowledge, Rebels doesn't air on UK TV, at least not on any channel I have access to).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

ETA: I haven't been able to tell definitively, but young Ren had Anakin's lightsaber right? So his 'it belongs to me' line in TFA is kind of retroactively boned. I thought that was him claiming the (good) heritage of his idol in his blind worship of Vader.

In Force Awakens, Han asks Maz where she got Luke/Anakin's saber (the one lost in Bespin) and she said it was a story for another time. Aside from being blue, I didn't think the handle looked anything like that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Werthead said:

No, I have to wait for the Blu-Rays which don't come out until a few months after it stops airing in the States (to my knowledge, Rebels doesn't air on UK TV, at least not on any channel I have access to).

Just on the Disney channel if youve sky (or maybe virigin too).  You can also buy the episodes from amazon instant video more or less as they air i think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2017 at 8:16 AM, red snow said:

I agree. If the parents weren't someone's personal favourite it would have also been disappointing or, to be even more contrary, "predictable" if it was what you thought.

The issue for me lies within JJ Abrams and his obsession with creating mysteries most of which have no follow through. We should have known Rey was an orphan of unimportant parents from the get go. Even Lucas was upront with anakins heritage irrespective of it being odd rather than multiple films asking who anakin's father was.

I'm starting to warm to the idea that while anticlimactic Rian took a surgical scalpel to remove episode vii concepts that would ultimately weigh the trilogy down. The only problem is that Abrams is back for the next one and could easily undo the undone. Kylo was lying about Rey parents. Snoke isn't dead (sith are pretty good at surviving bisections). Luke didn't die but was merely teleporting to watch a sunset. And that's where the fast and loose approach to the trilogy is a problem. 

This post encapsulates why I have no faith in Abrams' ability to finish this series. Even though Johnson's film also had flaws, I feel that it had more compelling moments (e.g., Luke/Kylo showdown) and was less derivative than TFA. I wish they would have just let him finish the trilogy. In fact, instead of bringing Abrams back I would be happier going the Mission Impossible route and just bring someone else in entirely. Hell, let John Woo finish it off. Anything to avoid Abrams' inevitable use of a plot device in which General Hux creates some form of Death Star that the rebels have to defeat (again).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guess who's back said:

So is there now any counter argument of Rey being a Mary Sue?



When people decide 'woman who is good at things' to mean the same as 'Mary Sue' the term becomes meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where on the Internet can I find the best rationalisation of the space chase plot?

I.e., a plausible way to explain why large ships can’t catch each other (as they could in Ep. IV), why the rebels can hyperjump away from the chase and back to very near the Dreadnought, but the First Order is prevented from doing a similar manoeuvre. There may even be movie-internal dialogue that at least addresses these issues and establishes them by authorial fiat (and which I have missed), much like the axiomatic rule of only having a single tracking device per fleet. Lacking an endogenous source, I’d like a reference to either secondary material (a source book) or a well-argued fansplanation on the Intrewebz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Happy Ent said:

Where on the Internet can I find the best rationalisation of the space chase plot?

Godspeed, Don Quixote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×