Mentat Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 16 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said: The President of Catalonia wrote a letter to the world leaders I don't think he'll get much traction with that. Most nation states would view the right of territories to secede as something uncomfortable/inconvenient (I have no idea what the Pope thinks!). Notably he apparently didn't send a copy of the letter to Macron (despite the fact that France is one of the three countries an independent Catalonia would share a land border with). Probably because he's well aware of his position. Meanwhile, some kind of negotiations continue between Torra and the Spanish government. The current Spanish government seems at least amenable to discuss reinforcing Catalan self-government (and they seem sympathetic to the need for a Constitutional reform but lack the majority to pull it off). They don't seem inclined to authorise a referendum, though, which is what the Catalans really want. Though they've tried to meet the Catalans half-way regarding politicians in exile/prison (by transferring prisoners to Catalan jails so they're closer to their friends and relatives) they seem loathe to pressure public prosecutors and specially judges (which only seems right to me; complaining that Spanish justice is under the control of the government and then insisting the government put pressure on judges seems a tad hypocritical). I think negotiations are bound to break down sooner rather than later. It's more both sides unwillingness to be perceived as uncompromising that keeps them going (rather than any kind of breakthrough or even expectation of a breakthrough, which I think is currently inexistent). There was almost a total breakdown of negotiations earlier this week when Torra told Sanchez Catlan nationalist parties in the Spanish parliament would stop backing Sanchez by November unless a referendum was authorized. Sanchez said there was no way that was going to happen. Torra has since backed down slightly, but Sanchez is fully aware of how fragile his government is and how unlikely it is he'll be able to pass a budget for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Oops, @Meera of Tarth, another diplomatic accident... http://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/spanish-government-withdraws-diplomatic-status-to-flanders-delegate-in-spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, Tijgy said: Oops, @Meera of Tarth, another diplomatic accident... http://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/spanish-government-withdraws-diplomatic-status-to-flanders-delegate-in-spain Yeah, I heard about that yesterday.... It's the never-ending story. But from Borrell I didn't expect less.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 And this is not exactly related to the politics' angle of the thread, but I found it and the pics areso good I could not help but posting it here. https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2018/oct/08/castellers-human-towers-of-catalonia?fbclid=IwAR0G-7e7GS3afuO3WCaypb3wErCOGY390REmXNO46Ufd856JRt5l7XXBII4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 12 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said: It's the never-ending story. But from Borrell I didn't expect less.... In all fairness, if the Flemish had said that, as a region with aspirations of independence themselves, they support the Catalan people in their plight and encourage European countries to recognize the right of secession of territories with a strong national identity, that likely would have been it. "Spain is incapable of complying with the conditions to be part of a democratic Europe". Is a slightly different can of fish, though. If Spain has no taste for that flavour of diplomacy I think that's fair enough (aside from lacking in diplomacy, I also find the affirmation to be false). Borrell has a history of opposing Catalan nationalism (though he's better about it than the likes of Casado or Rivera). I thought as minister for foreign affairs he wouldn't be directly involved with the issue, though. It seems I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Mentat said: I In all fairness, if the Flemish had said that, as a region with aspirations of independence themselves, they support the Catalan people in their plight and encourage European countries to recognize the right of secession of territories with a strong national identity, that likely would have been it. "Spain is incapable of complying with the conditions to be part of a democratic Europe". Is a slightly different can of fish, though. If Spain has no taste for that flavour of diplomacy I think that's fair enough (aside from lacking in diplomacy, I also find the affirmation to be false). but the Prime Minister of Belgium says there is not tension between the two countries....mmh.. Quote rell has a history of opposing Catalan nationalism (though he's better about it than the likes of Casado or Rivera). I thought as minister for foreign affairs he wouldn't be directly involved with the issue, though. It seems I was wrong. oh with Borrell One is Always wrong! It's inevitable! He can't resist that! arh why does he have to be from PSoE... and well....its not that difficult to be "better about Catalonia" than those two! but I must say....I think he likes them...so much....so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 @Tijgy so the Prosecutor's office has just announced thr number of years in jail demanded for the ex Catalan Government, the Jordis and the ex chief of Mossos, Trapero. decades... 177 years in total. Oriol Junqueras (ex vice President): 25 years. Jordis and Carme Forcadell (ex President of the Parliament): 17 years each. ex-Government: 16 years each of them. Trapero: 11 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 11:39 PM, Tijgy said: Crazy. It is. VOX, a far-right party (private prosecutor here) demanded 74 years just for Junqueras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 On 11/2/2018 at 11:13 PM, Meera of Tarth said: so the Prosecutor's office has just announced thr number of years in jail demanded for the ex Catalan Government, the Jordis and the ex chief of Mossos, Trapero. There have been three (that I know of) different accusations with three different sentencing requests. The one you quote is from the public prosecutor (ministerio fiscal), which is a civil servant tasked with upholding criminal law. They're supposedly independent from political influence (similar to judges), which they need to be in order to prosecute cases of corruption by elected officials. Pedro Sanchez has refused to attempt to exert influence on them. There's a second accusation from the state attorneys (abogacía del estado), which are civil servant that work directly for the state, defending the state's interests as defined by the state representative a.k.a. the president (if you sued the state for damages, they'd act as attorneys for the defence, while the public prosecutor would not be involved in any capacity as it's not criminal law). They have requested lighter sentences, arguing that the crime was sedition rather than rebellion (as an example, they requested 11,5 years sentence for Junqueras rather than 25). Though state attorneys are not supposed to be independent, some of them have protested the degree of interference by the government. Right-wing press has accused Pedro Sanchez of betraying Spain, selling the government out to the pro-independence parties, etc. The pro-independence parties, on the other side, have said that, as a result of the trial of their leaders, they will not be supporting Sanchez's government any more (just in time for the budget vote... the poor guy just can't win :P). As mentioned by Meera, there's a third accusation (a private accusation) led by Vox (our Spanish flavour of far-right nutjobs, who currently don't have representation in parliament). The less said about these blokes the better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inquisitor Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 On 11/3/2018 at 6:13 AM, Meera of Tarth said: @Tijgy so the Prosecutor's office has just announced thr number of years in jail demanded for the ex Catalan Government, the Jordis and the ex chief of Mossos, Trapero. decades... 177 years in total. Oriol Junqueras (ex vice President): 25 years. Jordis and Carme Forcadell (ex President of the Parliament): 17 years each. ex-Government: 16 years each of them. Trapero: 11 years. And I hope that disgusting vermin get as much time possible locked in jail! Looking great so far! Olé! !Viva España! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 hours ago, Mentat said: As mentioned by Meera, there's a third accusation (a private accusation) led by Vox (our Spanish flavour of far-right nutjobs, who currently don't have representation in parliament). The less said about these blokes the better... Yeah, I was mentioning it as curiosity more than anything. Mainly because they are the "private" accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 So if I understand it correct, private parties in Spain can ask a certain punishment in a criminal procedure? That is not really possible in my country. They can only interfere regarding the possible compensation the accused has to pay to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Tijgy said: So if I understand it correct, private parties in Spain can ask a certain punishment in a criminal procedure? Indeed, private accusations are possible. In some cases public prosecution will never intervene (e.g. slander or libel) and in others private citizens can pursue a prosecution when they desire to protect their rights which they consider trespassed, so we can have double or triple prosecutions. It's usually a more normal affair (e.g. the family of a murdered individual or the victim of sexual abuse or robbery who desires to take up their own prosecution). If the victim wants to pursue damages as part of the prosecution they can also do so, but it's not limited to this. Of course, this can be expensive, so it doesn't always happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Today is the day when the trial of the indepdentist leaders/Ex-Government/Jordis starts....Supreme Court, Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said: Today is the day when the trial of the indepdentist leaders/Ex-Government/Jordis starts....Supreme Court, Madrid. Our news in Flanders is very pro-Catalan... with an interview of the family of Fordacell. And we will have later this evening one of your old ministers on the television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tijgy said: Our news in Flanders is very pro-Catalan... with an interview of the family of Fordacell. And we will have later this evening one of your old ministers on the television. Cool. Today they've been broadcasting the first day of the trial here (all the trial will be broadcasted) and they were giving newspapers "of the trial" for free in the metro, and apparently there is a demosntration next Saturday. Apparently the far-right party VOX demanded more than 70 years for some leaders, or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Here is a part of the interview The interview itself is in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 The whole interview can be found in this link: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/02/12/catalaanse-vertegenwoordiger-bij-eu-vanuit-buitenland-kunnen-w/ First video (I am not completely sure it can be viewed from outside Belgium/Europe). The other ones are in Dutch (one of representatives of the Flemish Nationalists in the Flemish Parliament; and apparantly a friend of a minister Tony(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 9:42 PM, Tijgy said: The whole interview can be found in this link: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/02/12/catalaanse-vertegenwoordiger-bij-eu-vanuit-buitenland-kunnen-w/ First video (I am not completely sure it can be viewed from outside Belgium/Europe). The other ones are in Dutch (one of representatives of the Flemish Nationalists in the Flemish Parliament; and apparantly a friend of a minister Tony(?) Thank you very much for this, very enlightening. I'm actually quite concerned about the upcoming new General elections due to the rejection f the budget, since now the likelihood of PP/C's governing with VOX is higher now and this combination is even worse than Rajoy. Also...with the trial in the middle...especially for Catalonia. sometimes it's better the devil you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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