Jump to content
lAPPYc

Jaime and the burning swords

Recommended Posts

So my theory is that Jaime is going to join NW(Nothing new in that theory) and - drumroll - dies while fighting the Wights/the Others.

Why do I think so? Well, Jaime has this dream in ASoS that prompts him to go back for Brienne. In case you need a reminder(You can just skip the dream and go to the main body of discussion)

Quote

Naked and alone he stood, surrounded by enemies, with stone walls all around him pressing close. The Rock, he knew. He could feel the immense weight of it above his head. He was home. He was home and whole.

He held his right hand up and flexed his fingers to feel the strength in them. it felt as good as sex. As good as swordplay. Four fingers and a thumb. He had dreamed that he was maimed, but it wasn’t so. Relief made him dizzy. My hand, my good hand. Nothing could hurt him so long as he was whole.

Around him stood a dozen tall dark figures in cowled robes that hid their faces. In their hands were spears. “Who are you?” he demanded of them. “What business do you have in Casterly Rock?”

They gave no answer, only prodded him with the points of their spears. He had no choice but to descend. Down a twisting passageway he went, narrow steps carved from the living rock, down and down. I must go up, he told himself. Up, not down. Why am I going down? Below the earth his doom awaited, he knew with the certainty of dream; something dark and terrible lurked there, something that wanted him. Jaime tried to halt, but their spears prodded him on. If only I had my sword, nothing could harm me.

The steps ended abruptly on echoing darkness. Jaime had the sense of vast space before him. He jerked to a halt, teetering on the edge of nothingness. A spearpoint jabbed at the small of the back, shoving him into the abyss. He shouted, but the fall was short. He landed on his hands and knees, upon soft sand and shallow water. There were watery caverns deep below Casterly Rock, but this one was strange to him. “What place is this?”

“Your place.” The voice echoed; it was a hundred voices, a thousand, the voices of all the Lannisters since Lann the Clever, who’d lived at the dawn of days. But most of all it was his father’s voice, and beside Lord Tywin stood his sister, pale and beautiful, a torch burning in her hand. Joffrey was there as well, the son they’d made together, and behind them a dozen more dark shapes with golden hair.

“Sister, why has Father brought us here?”

“Us? This is your place, Brother. This is your darkness.” Her torch was the only light in the cavern. Her torch was the only light in the world. She turned to go.

“Stay with me,” Jaime pleaded. “Don’t leave me here alone.” But they were leaving. “Don’t leave me in the dark!” Something terrible lived down here. “Give me a sword, at least.”

“I gave you a sword,” Lord Tywin said.

It was at his feet. Jaime groped under the water until his hand closed upon the hilt. Nothing can hurt me so long as I have a sword. As he raised the sword a finger of pale flame flickered at the point and crept up along the edge, stopping a hand’s breath from the hilt. The fire took on the color of the steel itself so it burned with a silvery-blue light, and the gloom pulled back. Crouching, listening, Jaime moved in a circle, ready for anything that might come out of the darkness. The water flowed into his boots, ankle deep and bitterly cold. Beware the water, he told himself. There may be creatures living in it, hidden deeps...

From behind came a great splash. Jaime whirled toward the sound... but the faint light revealed only Brienne of Tarth, her hands bound in heavy chains. “I swore to keep you safe,” the wench said stubbornly. “I swore an oath.” Naked, she raised her hands to Jaime. “Ser. Please. If you would be so good.”

The steel links parted like silk. “A sword,” Brienne begged, and there it was, scabbard, belt, and all. She buckled it around her thick waist. The light was so dim that Jaime could scarcely see her, though they stood a scant few feet apart. In this light she could almost be a beauty, he thought. In this light she could almost be a knight. Brienne’s sword took flame as well, burning silvery blue. The darkness retreated a little more.

“The flames will burn so long as you live,” he heard Cersei call. “When they die, so must you.”

“Sister!” he shouted. “Stay with me. Stay!” There was no reply but the soft sound of retreating footsteps.

Brienne moved her longsword back and forth, watching the silvery flames shift and shimmer. Beneath her feet, a reflection of the burning blade shone on the surface of the flat black water. She was as tall and strong as he remembered, yet it seemed to Jaime that she had more of a woman’s shape now.

“Do they keep a bear down here?” Brienne was moving, slow and wary, sword to hand; step, turn, and listen. Each step made a little splash. “A cave lion? Direwolves? Some bear? Tell me, Jaime. What lives here? What lives in the darkness?”

“Doom.” No bear, he knew. No lion. “Only doom.”

In the cool silvery-blue light of the swords, the big wench looked pale and fierce. “I mislike this place.”

“I’m not fond of it myself.” Their blades made a little island of light, but all around them stretched a sea of darkness, unending. “My feet are wet.”

“We could go back the way they brought us. if you climbed on my shoulders you’d have no trouble reaching that tunnel mouth.”

Then I could follow Cersei. He could feel himself growing hard at the thought, and turned away so Brienne would not see.

“Listen.” She put a hand on his shoulder, and he trembled at the sudden touch. She’s warm. “Something comes.” Brienne lifted her sword to point off to his left. “There,”
He peered into the gloom until he saw it too. Something was moving through the darkness, he could not quite make it out...

“A man on a horse. No, two. Two riders, side by side.”

“Down here, beneath the Rock?” It made no sense. Yet there came two riders on pale horses, men and mounts both armored. The destriers emerged from the blackness at a slow walk. They make no sound, Jaime realized. No splashing, no clink of mail nor clop of hoof. He remembered Eddard Stark, riding the length of Aerys’s throne room wrapped in silence. Only his eyes had spoken; a lord’s eyes, cold and grey and full of judgment.

“Is it you, Stark?” Jaime called. “Come ahead. I never feared you living, I do not fear you dead.”

Brienne touched his arm. “There are more.”

He saw them too. They were armored all in snow, it seemed to him, and ribbons of mist swirled back from their shoulders. The visors of their helms were closed, but Jaime Lannister did not need to look upon their faces to know them.

Five had been his brothers. Oswell Whent and Jon Darry. Lewyn Martell, a prince of Dorne. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning. And beside them,
crowned in mist and grief with his long hair streaming behind him, rode Rhaegar Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone and rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

“You don’t frighten me,” he called, turning as they split to either side of him. He did not know which way to face. “I will fight you one by one or all together. But who is there for the wench to duel? She gets cross when you leave her out.”

“I swore an oath to keep him safe,” she said to Rhaegar’s shade. “I swore a holy oath.”

“We all swore oaths,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, so sadly.

The shades dismounted from their ghostly horses. When they drew their longswords, it made not a sound. “He was going to burn the city,” Jaime said. “To leave Robert only ashes.”

“He was your king,” said Darry.

“You swore to keep him safe,” said Whent.

“And the children, them as well,” said Prince Lewyn.

Prince Rhaegar burned with a cold light, now white, now red, now dark. “I left my wife and children in your hands.”

“I never thought he’d hurt them.” Jaime’s sword was burning less brightly now. “I was with the king...

“Killing the king,” said Ser Arthur.

“Cutting his throat,” said Prince Lewyn.

“The king you had sworn to die for,” said the White Bull.

The fires that ran along the blade were guttering out, and Jaime remembered what Cersei had said. No. Terror closed a hand about his throat. Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne’s burned, as the ghosts came rushing in.

“No,” he said, “no, no, no. Nooooooooo!”

13
1

So, as we know, some of the things in this dream are prophetic. Like Brienne asking about a bear, and maybe even the bit about people prodding him with spears to walk toward his doom might signify his capture and eventual presentation to Lady Stoneheart(Or his taking the black, we'll come back to this shortly). But what about some other things? What about his burning sword? What about it going dark? What about only Brienne's sword remaining alight?

Over the years I've scanned the fandom to confirm my thoughts on this, that it signifies that Jaime will take the black and so will Brienne, and then Jaime will die. And nowhere, and I mean not one time have I seen people thinking along these lines (They attribute his sword's dying flame to his losing the ability to fight with the loss of his hand). It might be that I could have overlooked some theory, but in everything I've seen, it is like people like Jaime so much that they don't want to acknowledge that the dream might mean that he dies.

So, let me present my guesses first. The dream describes Jaime being forced down a winding stairway. It might signify his capture by Lady Stoneheart's men.

Quote

Below the earth his doom awaited, he knew with the certainty of dream; something dark and terrible lurked there, something that wanted him.

UnCat is using caves as their hiding spots, and she wants Jaime, fully agree. But then there is this:

Quote

I must go up, he told himself. Up, not down. Why am I going down?

Does this signify his thinking that the Night's Watch is not worthy of him? The southron people don't hold NW in the highest esteem, we know. And in the last Jaime chapter, we see him thinking about removing Cersei from Tommen's court, so we know he has things to do, people to go back for. I must go up, not down, could be his thoughts as he is taken on the long journey to the north. The going up might also reflect his boyish dreams of glory and honor, and how the NW won't be any of this. Maybe this is long shot, but there is also this:

Quote

The steps ended abruptly on echoing darkness. Jaime had the sense of vast space before him. He jerked to a halt, teetering on the edge of nothingness.

This seems like a description of the wall. Maybe this foreshadows both his journeys, to UnCat, and then to the Wall. Maybe the doom he is afraid of at the wall are those pesky vows, and the fact of how hard it will be for him to desert and return to Cersei. Maybe Brienne's stubborn 'I swore to protect him' will persuade UnCat to let Jaime take the black(I don't think this is it, 'cause in the dream Jaime doesn't want to go). Or if Brynden meets up with her before a noose finds Jaime, he might convince her, being maybe in on the Grand Northern Conspiracy, that Jaime might be a good hostage for Jon. Too many things can happen on their way to the north, and maybe Jaime gets free of his captors. But by this time, KL has to have fallen to Aegon the only way forward for Jaime is the wall. He can't return as the Kingslayer to the Red Keep anymore. Maybe Cersei brokers some deal with Aegon and explains to Jaime via a raven, sent to Bolton maybe, or to whoever has Jaime now, that he can't come back. Maybe this explains the lines...

Quote

“Sister!” he shouted. “Stay with me. Stay!” There was no reply but the soft sound of retreating footsteps.

and:

Quote

“Stay with me,” Jaime pleaded. “Don’t leave me here alone.” But they were leaving. “Don’t leave me in the dark!” Something terrible lived down here. “Give me a sword, at least.”

... that signify his sister going away from him. The terrible thing living down there might be the Others. I doubt it is UnCat he is referring to right now, since Cersei didn't abandon him to her, he did that himself. Just her stopping her efforts, if she makes any that is, to retrieve him from the Wall might signify her leaving him however.

Then there is the biggest reason for me to think that he will take the black. The burning swords: 'am the sword in the darkness, I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.' Of course, Beric had a burning sword. But Jaime is nowhere as deserving(yet at least) as to have a god gift him a burning sword. Also, whatever sword he holds, he can't really wield it. Maybe the burning mentioned is metaphoric of the vows. Also, if it is the case like Beric Dondarrion, burning sword but no black cloak, then Brienne will also have to get a burning sword. That is just too much, don't you think? There is also this:

Quote

“Do they keep a bear down here?” Brienne was moving, slow and wary, sword to hand; step, turn, and listen. Each step made a little splash. “A cave lion? Direwolves? Some bear? Tell me, Jaime. What lives here? What lives in the darkness?”

 

the cave lion question is natural, because they are under Casterley Rock. Bear: because she is facing the bear at Harrenhal. But direwolf? Why? Only because she pledged allegiance to the wolves? Or might it have something to do with the oft-repeated phrase, 'there are still direwolves beyond the wall'? She also asks what lives in the darkness. If it is just Lady Stoneheart, she already knows about that, and wouldn't have to ask. Maybe this is just her asking if the Others that the black brothers are talking about are real. Jaime's answer is:

Quote

“Doom.” No bear, he knew. No lion. “Only doom.”

He tells her doom, not as if he were speaking about his own doom, which could be UnCat, but doom in general. Also, note how he thinks no bear, no lion but not 'no direwolf', maybe because the darkness Brienne is referring to is the haunted forest and he knows that there are direwolves there.

Also, there's just too much of oaths and the dead in this dream to not make you think of the Wall. For instance,

Quote

“Is it you, Stark?” Jaime called. “Come ahead. I never feared you living, I do not fear you dead.”

In the dream, he is addressing Ned Stark. But at the Wall he might be calling out to the vast hoard of soldiers marching toward him. Dead foe or alive, Jaime don't care.

As for why Brienne might take the black, maybe she meets the spearwives down in the north and sees that they don't think she's a freak. Maybe she finds some sister from another mother down there (Gods, let it be Val). Look at how Jaime thinks of her

Quote

She was as tall and strong as he remembered, yet it seemed to Jaime that she had more of a woman’s shape now.

and

Quote

In this light she could almost be a beauty, he thought. in this light she could almost be a knight.

About her being a beauty and womanly, it might be nothing, or just his little head thinking since he gets no action on the wall. But the light that makes look like a knight maybe the black cloak she wears, or the spearwives that surround her. This I accept is tinfoil, but Brienne's sword also starts burning, so she probably joins the NW too. Maybe after Jaime gets what's coming to him, she will become the 1000th LC of the NW. The LC the NW does not deserve, but the one it needs.

Finally, about him dying. Well, there is nothing to it. Cersei says that they will die when the swords stop burning. And Jaime's does, and GRRM is careful to point out that Brienne's remains burning, telling us that the burning swords are important. Jaime is doomed lol. I know people want him to be the one to kill Cersei, but there is not a shred of evidence that puts him in front of Tyrion in the line for this job. Or maybe he will kill Cersei, somehow ending up in KL, maybe to talk to Aegon and company about the wights and the Others and then free Cersei of whatever imprisonment she is now. But from the way his sword goes out in the dream just as the dead attack, and from the way he says “no, no, no. Nooooooooo!”, I think he is going to die in action.

Simply put, we need a POV at the wall now that Jon is dead and gone from this world. His rotten, not to mention trampled corpse - because there is a giant on the loose, and wildlings and crows - wouldn't be much of a POV, especially because Mormont's raven would eat his eyes out(That's the first thing Ravens go for, according to Arya I think), leaving him as a blind, pockmarked freak even if Mel manages to revive him. Also they burn corpses at the wall, and maybe the loyal Ghost will jump in the funeral pyre to die with his master...

Okay, I got carried away with that. Putting that aside(If we can), maybe Jaime will be the 999th, or the 1000th LC of NW. First LC of the Kingsguard to become the LC of Night's Watch. There is another dream that he has in his last chapter in AFFC:

Quote

“Who are you?” He had to hear her say it.

“The question is, who are you?”

“This is a dream.”

“Is it?” She smiled sadly. “Count your hands, child.”

One. One hand, clasped tight around the sword hilt. Only one. “In my dreams I always have two hands.” He raised his right arm and stared uncomprehending at the ugliness of his stump.

3

This might signify the reality of his situation crashing down on him at the Wall, when he is saying his vows. 'In my dreams I was Arthur Dayne', but he has become a crow instead. In the end, he wakes up from the dream:

Quote

He woke in darkness, shivering. The room had grown cold as ice.

Maybe this is just the fact that winter was there, or another foreshadowing.

The only thing I have against this(My own) theory is that I don't think this 'fallen in battle while yelling nooooo' is the end befitting Jaime. But maybe GRRM will contrive something. All I can say is that, after due consideration of all given facts, I've come to the conclusion that Jaime's gonna bite it, just like Ned and Robb and Jon. Finally, we will see that UnCat is the Azor Ahai, she will marry Brienne to Rickon and make her the princess that was promised(is that how it works?), and Bran will take over Daenerys' dragons to free them from Euron's horns and become the three-headed dragon. All hail GRRM.

Edited by lAPPYc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, lAPPYc said:

Also, whatever sword he holds, he can't really wield it.

I do think this is all pointing to Jaime ending up at the Wall but you point out the qualifier - Jaime has lost his sword hand.  The NW oath doesn't just include the sword, but the horn and the shield as well.  Shields come up often in Jaime's POV, including this one:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jaime VIII

The table itself was old weirwood, pale as bone, carved in the shape of a huge shield supported by three white stallions. By tradition the Lord Commander sat at the top of the shield, and the brothers three to a side, on the rare occasions when all seven were assembled. The book that rested by his elbow was massive; two feet tall and a foot and a half wide, a thousand pages thick, fine white vellum bound between covers of bleached white leather with gold hinges and fastenings. The Book of the Brothers was its formal name, but more often it was simply called the White Book.

It may turn out that Brienne is the sword and Jaime is her shield and if her light should go out, Jaime's will as well.

 

Edited by LynnS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that Jaime will go to the Wall and it will be very simple. When brienne delivers Jaime she says that he prefers to take the black instead of dieing. As a northern lady LS has to respect this wish. She may want revenge but she must have some of her previous stark honnor. And then the Brotherhood start their marching north.

This will add at least jaime's perspective to the quality of the men of the watch. For example are the wildlings and the NW brothers good fighters? We just know how good they are in comparison to jon and we have no idea how good a fighter jon is now.

This will also make LS see jon again, learn about fArya and Bran, make robbs will know to more characters... It could be a interesting meeting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2017 at 9:31 PM, LynnS said:

Shields come up often in Jaime's POV:

Then so do swords. I don't think this signifies anything other than Jaime being a knight.

On 12/23/2017 at 9:31 PM, LynnS said:

It may turn out that Brienne is the sword and Jaime is her shield and if her light should go out, Jaime's will as well.

There's nothing saying that Brienne's light will go out. But this is exactly what I am talking about:

On 12/23/2017 at 0:27 PM, lAPPYc said:

it is like people like Jaime so much that they don't want to acknowledge that the dream might mean that he dies.

Why should Brienne wait on Jaime? She has her own life. Her own destiny that doesn't really have to revolve around Jaime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×