Theories about Arthur Dayne

[Rufus Snow]

Apologies for double-posting, but I'm having connection problems....

 

re Arthur Dayne: is he really the sort of person you could get away with saying you've killed if you haven't? Which suggests that if he is still alive, then it must have been in league with Ned and Howland. And that seems a bit out of chartacter for a sworn KG to suddenly come to some sort of parleyed peace with two northern rebels who'd just killed two other KGs. Unless they took him captive - but he's also not likely to have yielded, being the greatest swordsman in the realm and sworn to die in defence of his king etc etc.

BUT of course, we know that the Daynes hold Ned in high regard, and merely returning Dawn to them seems a pretty poor reason to have warm fuzzies about someone who has just killed the Sword of the Morning.

I absolutely agree there is something very wrong in the whole Dayne/Stark story on the face of it, and I don't discount the possibility of Arthur still being alive despite the public tale. But WHY??? And where is he, if he is?

I don't think Qhorin could have been AD, as he claims to have been on the Wall since he was about Jon's age.

Mance? Well, he would have been recognized on visiting Winterfell, but that may not necessarily be a problem for the theory as AD being alive would have to have been with Ned's connivance in the first place - there's no reason for Ned to remark upon or reveal AD's identity if he he knew Arthur was alive and keeping that a secret for some reason. And wasn't Arthur blond? Mance had (grey-)brown hair.

So I'm cool with AD being dead or alive, just another detail to add to my re-read agenda

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Honestly I think it’s a case of wanting there to be more there than makes sense, and we’ve all been there.

That is what happens with a series that has taken well over 2 decades to partially complete. Remember 2.5 years ago when he canceled all of the remaining con appearances to finish the 6th book? 

[Crona]

10 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

This I agree with. I have a hard time believing Howland Reed would have killed him. Not because I think he's such a stand up guy and would never do that, but because Howland Reed seems to believe and understand what's coming. When Jojen tells him that Ned died, he believes him. And he sends his children to the peril of their lives to Bran so that they may help him achieve his destiny. If Arthur is part of the greater picture and he believes that the Long Night is coming and I'm inclined to think he did, then he and Howland might have found common ground.

It's the passage about the capture of Aemon the Dragonknight on the Prince's Pass that made me wonder even more about Arthur. I don't think he's out pretending to be someone else. If he's alive, he'll turn up when he is needed and I wouldn't be surprised if it's at the Wall.

That’s interesting, that you compare Aemon’s capture to what may have happened to Arthur, I didn’t think of that parallel before. Also, Rhaegar did believe in prophecy, could he have shared the prophecy information with Arthur? It’s a lot of speculation on my part, or do you think being the Sword of the Morning would have certain responsibilities during the Long Night?

 

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

He is dead, but his work to overthrow the king will be a stain on his honor, and he was lucky that he was killed by a man as honorable as he was, so his family still has the sword 

I believe he was trying to overthrow Aerys, he was said to have a sad smile in both Ned’s and Jaime’s dream, often associated that with some kind of guilt he felt. 

9 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

 

There are multiple Brother’s of the Watch who should be able to identify Arthur Dayne, that’s the biggest issue for me.

Yea, that’s what bothers me with that theory too. Although,  I think some individuals say they glamoured themselves, but I still find it unlikely

20 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

Apologies for double-posting, but I'm having connection problems....

 

re Arthur Dayne: is he really the sort of person you could get away with saying you've killed if you haven't? Which suggests that if he is still alive, then it must have been in league with Ned and Howland. And that seems a bit out of chartacter for a sworn KG to suddenly come to some sort of parleyed peace with two northern rebels who'd just killed two other KGs. Unless they took him captive - but he's also not likely to have yielded, being the greatest swordsman in the realm and sworn to die in defence of his king etc etc.

BUT of course, we know that the Daynes hold Ned in high regard, and merely returning Dawn to them seems a pretty poor reason to have warm fuzzies about someone who has just killed the Sword of the Morning.

I absolutely agree there is something very wrong in the whole Dayne/Stark story on the face of it, and I don't discount the possibility of Arthur still being alive despite the public tale. But WHY??? And where is he, if he is?

I don't think Qhorin could have been AD, as he claims to have been on the Wall since he was about Jon's age.

Mance? Well, he would have been recognized on visiting Winterfell, but that may not necessarily be a problem for the theory as AD being alive would have to have been with Ned's connivance in the first place - there's no reason for Ned to remark upon or reveal AD's identity if he he knew Arthur was alive and keeping that a secret for some reason. And wasn't Arthur blond? Mance had (grey-)brown hair.

So I'm cool with AD being dead or alive, just another detail to add to my re-read agenda

There could be a Dayne/Stark connection, especially the North. Jon saw the Sword of the Morning constellation in the North, and Dawn looks like an Other’s sword...maybe the Daynes and Starks have a historic connection and they have a part in the Long Night

[Alexis-something-Rose]

45 minutes ago, Crona said:

That’s interesting, that you compare Aemon’s capture to what may have happened to Arthur, I didn’t think of that parallel before. Also, Rhaegar did believe in prophecy, could he have shared the prophecy information with Arthur? It’s a lot of speculation on my part, or do you think being the Sword of the Morning would have certain responsibilities during the Long Night?

Yeah, that's sort of the jump my mind made when I read the part about Daeron I. Aemon was the best knight and swordsman of his time, and I just can't help but wonder. Add to it Meera's use of the net to ensnare Summer and I'm just kind of sitting here going Arthur has been brought up in every single book, by different people. Jaime alone is a wealth of information when it comes to the guy.

I think Arthur was definitely in the know about the prophecy. According to Barristan, Arthur was the person Rhaegar trusted the most. I know it's said that the title of the Sword of the Morning has to be earned, but I don't think it's that alone. I think it's heralded, likely by some cosmic thing, like perhaps a different type of falling star, maybe one that travels through the Sword of the Morning constellation.

In any case and as far as we know, there was no Sword of the Morning during Aegon's Conquest and I think that it might be somewhat significant. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

17 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Mance was at Winterfell for the feast on Robert’s arrival... you can’t tell me Ned and Robert wouldn’t recognize him while he’s singing to the party if he was Rhaegar, that’s insane.

I had a little giggle to myself imagining Ned, Jaime and Robert double-taking when they saw Rhaegar singing in the hall 15 years after his death. Talk about a cool way to announce your return to politics.