OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, divica said: Do you know other interesting things? danny dragons came from asshai, when jorah was still working with illirio (in got basically) whenever something goes wrong he is always saying that danny should run to asshai (it happens at least 3 or more times, I think), the azor ahai profecy is from asshai, people from asshai believe in R'hllr and if they have similar powers to mel (very likely) have visions of the future and present... So are we supposed to believe that nobody in asshai in the last years had a vision of danny dragons? that there isn t some plot to use danny to fullfil the AA profecy? that they aren t using the AA=danny to expand the religion of R'hllor? That they don t have a plan for danny that doesn t involve the others (if they thought they were such a threat why wouldn t they have warned danny?)? In another I talked about how the red priests in asshai could have used the ptwp profecy and say that the prince would be the new AA and put religious propaganda in their AA profecy... ps. I forgot to add that mirri (that was essencial for danny hatching the dragons) studied in asshai and that quaithe which is trying to guide danny is from asshai... nothing to suspect here... Bran III, GoT Quote He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, divica said: Do you know other interesting things? danny dragons came from asshai, when jorah was still working with illirio (in got basically) whenever something goes wrong he is always saying that danny should run to asshai (it happens at least 3 or more times, I think), the azor ahai profecy is from asshai, people from asshai believe in R'hllr and if they have similar powers to mel (very likely) have visions of the future and present... So are we supposed to believe that nobody in asshai in the last years had a vision of danny dragons? that there isn t some plot to use danny to fullfil the AA profecy? that they aren t using the AA=danny to expand the religion of R'hllor? That they don t have a plan for danny that doesn t involve the others (if they thought they were such a threat why wouldn t they have warned danny?)? In another I talked about how the red priests in asshai could have used the ptwp profecy and say that the prince would be the new AA and put religious propaganda in their AA profecy... ps. I forgot to add that mirri (that was essencial for danny hatching the dragons) studied in asshai and that quaithe which is trying to guide danny is from asshai... nothing to suspect here... You're right @divica. I forgot Illyrio claims he got the dragon eggs from Asshai. It's a creepy place, but legend is that is precisely where they originated. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for Quaithe to nudge Dany to the place that can teach her everything she would need to know to manage her dragons successfully. It would certainly bring real Targaryan Blood & Fire back with a vengeance. Gads at the rate she's moving I almost wish she had gone to Asshai in the first place. Mereen is a lousy place to lose the characters I think we will lose there in Dany's service. <Sigh> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said: Bran III, GoT I think there is a report to the small council about dragons in asshai or are it rumours? 3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: You're right @divica. I forgot Illyrio claims he got the dragon eggs from Asshai. It's a creepy place, but legend is that is precisely where they originated. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for Quaithe to nudge Dany to the place that can teach her everything she would need to know to manage her dragons successfully. It would certainly bring real Targaryan Blood & Fire back with a vengeance. Gads at the rate she's moving I almost wish she had gone to Asshai in the first place. Mereen is a lousy place to lose the characters I think we will lose there in Dany's service. <Sigh> Oh euron also went to asshai and seem to be trying to summon a kraken using a wise man, a Lady he loved and an unborn son (where have we seen this). I can t see anything good happening to danny if she goes to asshai. I think I would risk going to valyria instead of asshai... That place is scary... And I think tyrion will clean meereen for dany, so that when she arrives she will only need to get in the boats and go to westeros. Of the 3 povs which ones do you think are going to die in mereen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, divica said: I think there is a report to the small council about dragons in asshai or are it rumours? Are you referring to this?: Tyrion III, SoS Quote The eunuch drew a parchment from his sleeve. "A kraken has been seen off the Fingers." He giggled. "Not a Greyjoy, mind you, a true kraken. It attacked an Ibbenese whaler and pulled it under. There is fighting on the Stepstones, and a new war between Tyrosh and Lys seems likely. Both hope to win Myr as ally. Sailors back from the Jade Sea report that a three-headed dragon has hatched in Qarth, and is the wonder of that city—" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, divica said: I think there is a report to the small council about dragons in asshai or are it rumours? Oh euron also went to asshai and seem to be trying to summon a kraken using a wise man, a Lady he loved and an unborn son (where have we seen this). I can t see anything good happening to danny if she goes to asshai. I think I would risk going to valyria instead of asshai... That place is scary... And I think tyrion will clean meereen for dany, so that when she arrives she will only need to get in the boats and go to westeros. Of the 3 povs which ones do you think are going to die in mereen? I think Euron went to Valyria, but I could be wrong about that. I think Asshai is the opposite of The Lands of Always Winter. Asshai is where fire magic originated. The birthplace of dragons. Dany could learn a lot there being a daughter of fire. She certainly needs to learn how to handle her dragons. Remember, lots of folks go to Asshai and return with nifty tricks, that isn't true of Valyria. Euron is the only one I know of to go there and return. The Battle of Fire in Mereen makes me sad. I think we may lose both Vic and Ser Barristan (sigh), as well as some of the minor characters I've become fond of. Brown Ben Plumm, Tattered Prince, Penny, Daario--maybe even sweet little Misandei. I enjoy the heck out of the creepiness with Moqorro and I dig Vic thinking he can outsmart his brother. Strong Belwas is great and I would love to see him face off with Randyl Tarly, alas, it's not likely to happen. There are a lot of people in Mereen who shouldn't be there. If Tyrion can pull off any kind of win in Mereen it will be a miracle or because he's figured out how to bond with a dragon. Too bad he doesn't have someone like Varys with him to do some dirty work and make connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said: Are you referring to this?: Tyrion III, SoS I'm sure that's the 1. It's amazing how quickly you find things! I've been searching for Davos 5 in ASOS for the past 2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 The reason I would give for it not to be Shiera is that BR tells Bran Shiera is dead. "There was a woman I loved" I'm not saying that Quaithe is waring the mask as a plot device to conceal her identity, but if she is it should be noted that Jorah is the only person who could conceivably recognize someone of importance from Westeros. It is conceivable he could recognize Ashara, but frankly seems far fetched to me. I do not think she is a known character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, divica said: Do you know other interesting things? danny dragons came from asshai, when jorah was still working with illirio (in got basically) whenever something goes wrong he is always saying that danny should run to asshai (it happens at least 3 or more times, I think), the azor ahai profecy is from asshai, people from asshai believe in R'hllr and if they have similar powers to mel (very likely) have visions of the future and present... So are we supposed to believe that nobody in asshai in the last years had a vision of danny dragons? that there isn t some plot to use danny to fullfil the AA profecy? that they aren t using the AA=danny to expand the religion of R'hllor? That they don t have a plan for danny that doesn t involve the others (if they thought they were such a threat why wouldn t they have warned danny?)? In another I talked about how the red priests in asshai could have used the ptwp profecy and say that the prince would be the new AA and put religious propaganda in their AA profecy... ps. I forgot to add that mirri (that was essencial for danny hatching the dragons) studied in asshai and that quaithe which is trying to guide danny is from asshai... nothing to suspect here... Jorah was not trying to get Daenerys to Asshai. In Daenerys VIII, Game 64 and Daenerys X, Game 64, we see more evidence that Jorah was in league with Illyrio. When Jorah learned that Drogo was as good as dead his first thought was to make for a port to find passage (avoiding the Dothraki Sea) to Pentos. It wasn't until after Daenerys smothered Drogo and began erecting his pyre, believing she meant to throw herself on it as well, that Jorah suggested they go off together. But even then, after he swore to serve her, he was thinking about returning her to Pentos. In Daenerys II, Clash 27, Daenerys arrives in Qarth. This is Jorah’s first opportunity to report back to Illyrio since Drogo died and the dragonlets were hatched. In Daenerys III, Clash 40, we see Jorah’s counsel to Daenerys after arriving in Qarth. . . Quote "I would be glad to leave this city, if truth be told," the knight said when she was done. "But not for Asshai." So, Jorah is definitely not steering Daenerys to Asshai on behalf of Illyrio as some readers have suggested. Quote "Where, then?" "East," he said. "I am half a world away from my kingdom even here. If I go any farther east I may never find my way home to Westeros." "If you go west, you risk your life." "House Targaryen has friends in the Free Cities," she reminded him. "Truer friends than Xaro or the Pureborn." "If you mean Illyrio Mopatis, I wonder. For sufficient gold, Illyrio would sell you as quickly as he would a slave." "My brother and I were guests in Illyrio's manse for half a year. If he meant to sell us, he could have done it then." "He did sell you," Ser Jorah said. "To Khal Drogo." Dany flushed. He had the truth of it, but she did not like the sharpness with which he put it. "Illyrio protected us from the Usurper's knives, and he believed in my brother's cause." "Illyrio believes in no cause but Illyrio. Gluttons are greedy men as a rule, and magisters are devious. Illyrio Mopatis is both. What do you truly know of him?" Here, we should realize that Jorah is no longer working as Illyrio’s agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: The reason I would give for it not to be Shiera is that BR tells Bran Shiera is dead. "There was a woman I loved" I'm not saying that Quaithe is waring the mask as a plot device to conceal her identity, but if she is it should be noted that Jorah is the only person who could conceivably recognize someone of importance from Westeros. It is conceivable he could recognize Ashara, but frankly seems far fetched to me. I do not think she is a known character. I loved a couple of women in college. Neither are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: I think Euron went to Valyria, but I could be wrong about that. I think Asshai is the opposite of The Lands of Always Winter. Asshai is where fire magic originated. The birthplace of dragons. Dany could learn a lot there being a daughter of fire. She certainly needs to learn how to handle her dragons. Remember, lots of folks go to Asshai and return with nifty tricks, that isn't true of Valyria. Euron is the only one I know of to go there and return. The Battle of Fire in Mereen makes me sad. I think we may lose both Vic and Ser Barristan (sigh), as well as some of the minor characters I've become fond of. Brown Ben Plumm, Tattered Prince, Penny, Daario--maybe even sweet little Misandei. I enjoy the heck out of the creepiness with Moqorro and I dig Vic thinking he can outsmart his brother. Strong Belwas is great and I would love to see him face off with Randyl Tarly, alas, it's not likely to happen. There are a lot of people in Mereen who shouldn't be there. If Tyrion can pull off any kind of win in Mereen it will be a miracle or because he's figured out how to bond with a dragon. Too bad he doesn't have someone like Varys with him to do some dirty work and make connections. I was just looking for the quote about dragons in asshai so I know he says he went to asshai in the kingsmoot Quote "IRONMEN," said Euron Greyjoy, "you have heard my horn. Now hear my words. I am Balon's brother, Quellon's eldest living son. Lord Vickon's blood is in my veins, and the blood of the Old Kraken. Yet I have sailed farther than any of them. Only one living kraken has never known defeat. Only one has never bent his knee. Only one has sailed to Asshai by the Shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond imagining . . ." And you are forgeting that asshai is the land without children where ANY magic is allowed. I think you are as likely to learn magic as end up in a magic ritual in asshai. At least in valyria I would see pretty things and die fast. I think we will see the tyriion that was hand of the king in mereen. I want to read about THAT tyrion solving the issues in mereen instead of tyrion using brute force to control things... 30 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said: Are you referring to this?: Tyrion III, SoS It wasn t that. The most similar that I found for what I was looking for is Quote "How do you know they didn't?" Mollander thumped through the grass, looking for more apples. "You'd need to be down the belly yourself to swear they weren't. One sailor with a story, aye, a man might laugh at that, but when oarsmen off four different ships tell the same tale in four different tongues . . ." "The tales are not the same," insisted Armen. "Dragons in Asshai, dragons in Qarth, dragons in Meereen, Dothraki dragons, dragons freeing slaves . . . each telling differs from the last." "Only in details." Mollander grew more stubborn when he drank, and even when sober he was bullheaded. "All speak of dragons, and a beautiful young queen." Asshai is in a completly diferente place from where danny is. The dragons in asshai aren t related to her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I loved a couple of women in college. Neither are dead. I don't have the books on me, but that is part of BR's speech to Bran where he tells him not to try and change the past, because Bran thinks Ned heard him. Right after mentioning the women he loved he mentions a brother as well. Of course it could be misdirection, but I think that BR is at least implying she is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Jorah was not trying to get Daenerys to Asshai. In Daenerys VIII, Game 64 and Daenerys X, Game 64, we see more evidence that Jorah was in league with Illyrio. When Jorah learned that Drogo was as good as dead his first thought was to make for a port to find passage (avoiding the Dothraki Sea) to Pentos. It wasn't until after Daenerys smothered Drogo and began erecting his pyre, believing she meant to throw herself on it as well, that Jorah suggested they go off together. But even then, after he swore to serve her, he was thinking about returning her to Pentos. In Daenerys II, Clash 27, Daenerys arrives in Qarth. This is Jorah’s first opportunity to report back to Illyrio since Drogo died and the dragonlets were hatched. In Daenerys III, Clash 40, we see Jorah’s counsel to Daenerys after arriving in Qarth. . . So, Jorah is definitely not steering Daenerys to Asshai on behalf of Illyrio as some readers have suggested. Here, we should realize that Jorah is no longer working as Illyrio’s agent. Quote Dany was lost. "Go? Where should we go?" "Asshai, I would say. It lies far to the south, at the end of the known world, yet men say it is a great port. We will find a ship to take us back to Pentos. It will be a hard journey, make no mistake. Do you trust your khas? Will they come with us?" Quote "I had to save him." "We could have fled," he said. "I would have seen you safe to Asshai, Princess. There was no need …" Quote Ser Jorah took her arm. "My queen, Drogo will have no use for dragon's eggs in the night lands. Better to sell them in Asshai. Sell one and we can buy a ship to take us back to the Free Cities. Sell all three and you will be a wealthy woman all your days." Wether it was the final destination he sure talks about going to asshai a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapho Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: There would be an elegance in each of the four great bastards having a role in the current story. Aegor's dream lives on in the Golden Company--the muscle behind The Blackfyre. Daemon lives on in his descendant--Aegon. Brynden is the three-eyed crow--the last greenseer, who has been guiding Bran, but appears to know Jon's identity and presumably understands his role as the prince that was promised. His half sister and paramour, Shiera has guided Daenerys, the mother of dragons, and she has been encouraging her to remember who she is. If Quaithe was Shiera then it has to have some more meaning than just having a secret Targ for the sake of having another secret Targ there. She would at least have to have been instrumental in getting those dragons to Dany - a long con if there ever was one and I see a certain appeal in having a female long connist managing to up a female player. Not impossible, as the dragon eggs originated from Asshai... But I don't think that's Dany's arc. Quaithe showed up after Dany had gotten her dragons and became a major player - like so many others beside her. Without her dragons, Dany wasn't even a puppet in anyone's plans, just a prop. I think Dany is not just meant to become a player without the help of any puppeteers, she has to struggle to untangle herself from the strings various people try to attach to her. While this is what Quaithe did warn her about, it's not something special if Quaithe is one of the people who try to use Dany for her own agenda. She warns her about everyone, except Quaithe. I think it boils down to what Quaithe stands for and what she wants. Quaithe = Shiera and Shiera is a benevolent guide to Dany would only make sense to me if Shiera was on a mission to restore dragons to the trueborn Targaryen line - for a greater purpose than just the game of thrones in Westeros. Like Bloodraven, Shiera could of course have the greater picture in mind (the Long Night and the struggle with the Others). Does that mean she is Quaithe? I dunno, Dany learned more about the greater struggle in the House of the Undying than Quaithe ever let on. Quaithe's advice is curiously limited in that respect. Hm, maybe not impossible. Personally, I'm just not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 11 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Convenient plot device for an author who wants to conceal the identity of a mysterious character, no? Well yes... but it seems all shadowbinders wear masks: Quote Most sinister of all the sorcerers of Asshai are the shadowbinders, whose lacquered masks hide their faces from the eyes of gods and men. They alone dare to go upriver past the walls of Asshai, into the heart of darkness. And Shadowmen... Quote She enjoyed watching all the people too: dark solemn Asshai'i and tall pale Qartheen, the bright-eyed men of Yi Ti in monkey-tail hats, warrior maids from Bayasabhad, Shamyriana, and Kayakayanaya with iron rings in their nipples and rubies in their cheeks, even the dour and frightening Shadow Men, who covered their arms and legs and chests with tattoos and hid their faces behind masks. The Eastern Market was a place of wonder and magic for Dany. But the Western Market smelled of home. Of course there are a lot of other masks too, from Faceless Men to ArchMaesters and tattoo masks like Patchface and Moqorro. And whatever kind of mask Varys uses to conceal his identity. But besides asking what a shadow man is, I’m not sure what my point was. Except that Quaith isn’t alone in wearing a mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 12 hours ago, divica said: Wether it was the final destination he sure talks about going to asshai a lot I bolded the determinative portion of the sentence for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Somebody trying to save Asshai. The same thing Melissandre is trying to do except different place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Zapho said: If Quaithe was Shiera then it has to have some more meaning than just having a secret Targ for the sake of having another secret Targ there. She would at least have to have been instrumental in getting those dragons to Dany - a long con if there ever was one and I see a certain appeal in having a female long connist managing to up a female player. Not impossible, as the dragon eggs originated from Asshai... But I don't think that's Dany's arc. Quaithe showed up after Dany had gotten her dragons and became a major player - like so many others beside her. Without her dragons, Dany wasn't even a puppet in anyone's plans, just a prop. I think Dany is not just meant to become a player without the help of any puppeteers, she has to struggle to untangle herself from the strings various people try to attach to her. While this is what Quaithe did warn her about, it's not something special if Quaithe is one of the people who try to use Dany for her own agenda. She warns her about everyone, except Quaithe. I think it boils down to what Quaithe stands for and what she wants. Quaithe = Shiera and Shiera is a benevolent guide to Dany would only make sense to me if Shiera was on a mission to restore dragons to the trueborn Targaryen line - for a greater purpose than just the game of thrones in Westeros. Like Bloodraven, Shiera could of course have the greater picture in mind (the Long Night and the struggle with the Others). Does that mean she is Quaithe? I dunno, Dany learned more about the greater struggle in the House of the Undying than Quaithe ever let on. Quaithe's advice is curiously limited in that respect. Hm, maybe not impossible. Personally, I'm just not buying it. Daenerys is the Mother of Dragons. Dragons are a flaming sword over the world. The dragons are critical (perhaps necessary) in the impending War for the Dawn. Yes, there will be a dance, and I expect one or maybe two dragons to die, but that flaming sword will be wielded by the prince that was promised and the War for the Dawn will be won. And just as Bloodraven is helping to bring that about, so is his half sister and former paramour, Shiera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I bolded the determinative portion of the sentence for you. Once they get to asshai who knows what would happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Daenerys is the Mother of Dragons. Dragons are a flaming sword over the world. The dragons are critical (perhaps necessary) in the impending War for the Dawn. Yes, there will be a dance, and I expect one or maybe two dragons to die, but that flaming sword will be wielded by the prince that was promised and the War for the Dawn will be won. And just as Bloodraven is helping to bring that about, so is his half sister and former paramour, Shiera. I couldn’t disagree more, Clouds of ash and soot block the sun as well as clouds of snow and ice. Both Bloodraven/Others and the Dragons are a threat to mankind. The long night and the doom of valyria were both apocalyptic. It would be super weak for Quaithe to be Seastar since they both share a single defining feature, their eyes, and these are not described as noteworthy for the same reasons. That said I still don’t know how anyone could tell if Quaithe is actually helping (trying to help) Dany or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: I couldn’t disagree more, Clouds of ash and spot block the sun as well as clouds of snow and ice. Both Bloodraven/Others and the Dragons are a threat to mankind. It would be super weak for Quaithe to be Seastar since they both share a single defining feature, their eyes, and these are not described as noteworthy for the same reasons. That said I still don’t know how anyone could tell if Quaithe is actually helping (trying to help) Dany or not. And that's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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