We need more V. Steel at The Wall.

[Mustang01gt]

I’ve always wondered if we will see any more characters with Valyrian Steel go to the wall.

The short answer is “Probably not” but I was curious if any one else had theories on some Knights with V. Steel heading to the Wall to help fight The Others.

 

I believe the most likely sword to turn up at The Wall is Dark Sister. This assuming that Bloodraven has it with him at the cave. Then there is the question of who would wield it! *Arya would be awesome but that’s a little too much wishful thinking on my part*

 

Your thoughts!?

[Lucius Lovejoy]

TWOW will never be released so this is a moot point, but I imagine Jaime will show up at the wall with Oathkeeper, though it is possible Brienne comes with Oathkeeper and Jaime shows up with Widow's Wail (which presumably is currently in Tommen's hands).  Other than that I don't see the influx of swords needed to properly arm the north against the Others.  I think it's more likely that blacksmiths who know how to work Valyrian steel (maybe Gendry becomes one of them) are involved, as well as Drogon's fire, and perhaps an assist from Melisandre, in forging new Valyrian steel swords.

[Curled Finger]

Thank you, @Mustang01gt--it's been ages since we talked about swords.   This happens to be my longest and most deeply researched topic.   Let me qualify this: You said "watch"--we are talking books not other mediums, right? Let's do this then.   Where are the swords?  Truth, Dark Sister, Blackfyre, Orphan-Maker and Vigilance's whereabouts are unknown, but they are listed as Westerosi blades indicating that they will come into play.   I believe there will be a sort of re-enactment of the Last Hero's quest meaning he's got to have 12 companions.  Valyrian Steel is for the hero companions.   I've got a list of 28 potential hero companions, but it's all based on Bran being the Last Hero.   If you deem Jon or Dany or Dolorous Edd to be the Last Hero you could have different heroes.  The only 4 companion heroes I've really decided on are Brienne, Jamie, Jorah and Meera.    I'm leaning heavily toward Tormund Giantsbane, Sandor Clegane, Thoros of Myr and  Theon joining this group.   That stands at 4 of 12 sold and another 4 holding, leaving 4 open for 20 candidates.   

There is also an axe and at least 2 daggers floating around Westeros not to mention an arack (of all things) with the Dothraki.  There is a cache of VS at the Citadel for making links.   

I think the amount of VS required is equal to the number of Others.   I can't make sense of only 12 swords any other way.   The Nights Watch needs dragon glass to kill wights.   Lots and lots of dragon glass and fire, but the Others require dragon steel.   It may as well be Valyrian Steel as anything else.   It is a fantasy story and these are magic swords after all.   

We've got 1 greatsword that a big burly man needs to wield.   2 bastard swords of considerable size not recommended for small people.   2 smaller swords suitable to a woman or older child's use. That leaves 7 regular long swords that Brienne can handle without a problem.   

I don't see Jon making this journey or taking Longclaw on adventure.  It's poetic to match Jaime to Oathkeeper and Jorah to Heartsbane, but I doubt it will come down like that.   

Whatever the math, these magic swords are in play for some reason.  Could be the Other Sam killed only leaves 11 and a sword isn't found.    I don't know but I'd love to read what you think.

[Darth Sidious]

Has it been confirmed by the text that VS kills WW?  

[Makk]

17 minutes ago, Agent Orange said:

Has it been confirmed by the text that VS kills WW?  

As far as I am aware this is as close as we get, which is definitely not a confirmation.

Quote

"The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it."

"Dragonsteel?" Jon frowned. "Valyrian steel?"

"That was my first thought as well."

 

However the only time we have seen one killed was with obsidian which is known as Dragonglass.

Quote

Do it now. Stop crying and fight, you baby. Fight, craven. It was his father he heard, it was Alliser Thorne, it was his brother Dickon and the boy Rast. Craven, craven, craven. He giggled hysterically, wondering if they would make a wight of him, a huge fat white wight always tripping over its own dead feet. Do it, Sam. Was that Jon, now? Jon was dead. You can do it, you can, just do it. And then he was stumbling forward, falling more than running, really, closing his eyes and shoving the dagger blindly out before him with both hands. He heard a crack, like the sound ice makes when it breaks beneath a man's foot, and then a screech so shrill and sharp that he went staggering backward with his hands over his muffled ears, and fell hard on his arse.

When he opened his eyes the Other's armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.

Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. "Mother, that's cold."

So who knows. Quite possible but it hasn't been confirmed.

[Mustang01gt]

My number one theory is Bloodraven gives Bran Dark Sister and he takes it to Castle Black where he stays to help fight the Others.

I like to think that Jon Snow will stay at The Wall and not ride south to aid Stannis. If he does then Bran will give Dark Sister to him and Jon will give to either Stannis or his best swordsman.

leading candidates are-

Stannis - He needs a REAL magical sword.

Richard Horpe - Stannis Baratheons most skilled swordsman.

Iron Emmet - I’m assuming the best swordsman of the Nights Watch.

Mance Rayder - Possibly the best sword in the North.

These are the most likely to gain Dark Sister IMO.

[Makk]

I feel giving Jaime Dark Sister would be poetic. He also needs a small light sword for his left hand.

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Makk said:

I feel giving Jaime Dark Sister would be poetic. He also needs a small light sword for his left hand.

That's a completely reasonable prediction.   Don't forget that Widows Wail is a smaller blade, too.   

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Mustang01gt said:

My number one theory is Bloodraven gives Bran Dark Sister and he takes it to Castle Black where he stays to help fight the Others.

I like to think that Jon Snow will stay at The Wall and not ride south to aid Stannis. If he does then Bran will give Dark Sister to him and Jon will give to either Stannis or his best swordsman.

leading candidates are-

Stannis - He needs a REAL magical sword.

Richard Horpe - Stannis Baratheons most skilled swordsman.

Iron Emmet - I’m assuming the best swordsman of the Nights Watch.

Mance Rayder - Possibly the best sword in the North.

These are the most likely to gain Dark Sister IMO.

Get down!   Those are some great predictions.  No one has ever just thrown out Iron Emmet or Richard Horpe-brilliant!   

Now then to Jon.   He's rather incapacitated last we saw him, so there is little chance he will be involved in much of anything for a bit.  Who are you thinking could wield Longclaw in his absence?   Stannis really does need a real magical sword.   

With Bran and Meera and Jojen and Hodor exploring the cave any one of them could find Dark Sister.   There is a poetry to Bloodraven giving his sword to Bran or someone in his company.  People discount Meera all the time, but she did take a sword from the crypts despite a blade not being her most comfortable weapon.   Personally I like Meera for Dark Sister, for a while any way.

[Curled Finger]

3 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Has it been confirmed by the text that VS kills WW?  

No.   I tried to qualify valyrian steel being as likely a candidate as any other for dragon steel.   Didn't mean to mislead anyone.  

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I hope Meera gets a Valyrian Steel frog spear and a magical net made from weirwood roots. 

[Back door hodor]

Hi....I don't think I've ever seen this but is it possible that longclaw is not longclaw, but rather dark sister.

I don't recall jorah ever mentioning abandoning a vs sword, maybe the watch has had dark sister all along, and the lcs have been passing it down ...if this is the case than it is very appropriate that Jon inherits it than

Anyway no real proof just some food for thought 

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I hope Meera gets a Valyrian Steel frog spear and a magical net made from weirwood roots. 

You're on fire tonight, Man!

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Back door hodor said:

Hi....I don't think I've ever seen this but is it possible that longclaw is not longclaw, but rather dark sister.

I don't recall jorah ever mentioning abandoning a vs sword, maybe the watch has had dark sister all along, and the lcs have been passing it down ...if this is the case than it is very appropriate that Jon inherits it than

Anyway no real proof just some food for thought 

Hi yourself, Back door Hodor!  If the descriptions we have are accurate, Longclaw is much bigger than Dark Sister.  Many folks have made a nice case for Longclaw being Blackfyre, though.   Both being bastard swords and all.  I take it on faith that there really are 12 swords and they really do match their descriptions.   Or I go nuts and slobber.  Dark Sister could totally be at the Wall.  I'm thinking that if Brynden Rivers took her with him to the Wall and disappeared on a ranging as Lord Commander, he would have had her with him.  That makes the cave the obvious place, but as you say, no real proof.  

Jeor is a reliable source.   Jorah left Longclaw.  Jorah probably hates himself for it all the time, then again, maybe his honor wasn't as far gone as we have been led to believe.   

[Lady Dacey]

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Nights Watch needs dragon glass to kill wights.

Wights can be stopped with fire and regular steel (if you dismember them). Dragonglass is just like any other sharp material to them, right? I think melissandre tells us that, and Sam actually tests it, he tries to attack Small Paul with his obsidian dagger and fails. 

 

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Lots and lots of dragon glass and fire [for the wights], but the Others require dragon steel.

Sam slayed an Other with dragonglass - the others don't require dragonsteel, they can't withstand dragonglass. Maybe there's an armor thing, maybe obsidian is to frail to penetrate their armour while dragonsteel will do it. But if you can aim someplace unarmoured with dragonglass the Other will melt away just like we saw with Sam.

edited to add textual evidence 

here it is:

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V 

Sam cleared his throat. "S-sire. The dagger . . . the dragonglass only shattered when I tried to stab a wight."

Melisandre smiled. "Necromancy animates these wights, yet they are still only dead flesh. Steel and fire will serve for them. The ones you call the Others are something more." 

"Demons made of snow and ice and cold," said Stannis Baratheon. "The ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters."

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Lady Dacey said:

Wights can be stopped with fire and regular steel (if you dismember them). Dragonglass is just like any other sharp material to them, right? I think melissandre tells us that, and Sam actually tests it, he tries to attack Small Paul with his obsidian dagger and fails. 

 

Sam slayed an Other with dragonglass - the others don't require dragonsteel, they can't withstand dragonglass. Maybe there's an armor thing, maybe obsidian is to frail to penetrate their armour while dragonsteel will do it. But if you can aim someplace unarmoured with dragonglass the Other will melt away just like we saw with Sam.

edited to add textual evidence 

here it is:

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V 

Sam cleared his throat. "S-sire. The dagger . . . the dragonglass only shattered when I tried to stab a wight."

Melisandre smiled. "Necromancy animates these wights, yet they are still only dead flesh. Steel and fire will serve for them. The ones you call the Others are something more." 

"Demons made of snow and ice and cold," said Stannis Baratheon. "The ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters."

ha!   there it goes again--I wish I'd never fallen for Lena Headey.    

Thanks for straightening the detail out.   Rereads begin 1/1/18--I vow to be back with absolutely reliable intel.

A thousand apologies to all for the error!  

[Lady Dacey]

When Sam kills the White Walker he pierces it in the unarmoured neck. For a sword fight, like the one Wyman Royce engaged in, I believe a dragonsteel/Valyrian steel sword would be indeed necessary, because obsidian is so fragile. 

24 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

thousand apologies to all for the error!  

Happens to all of us! 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Luckily someone in charge already thought of this!

“So if I can just convince the lords of the Seven Kingdoms to give us their Valyrian blades, all is saved? That won’t be hard.” No harder than asking them to give up their coin and castles. He gave a bitter laugh. ”

 

[Light a wight tonight]

First off, there's no solid evidence so far that Valyrian Steel is effective against Others. There's only a reference to something called dragonsteel in an old manuscript in the archives at Castle Black. That refers to happenings in a Bronze Age time frame in Westeros, prior to the existence of the Valyrian Freehold, so we don't know if Valyrian Steel existed then. 

We know that dragonglass is effective against Others. We don't know how numerous the Others are, but their troops are susceptible to fire. Dragonglass-tipped arrows for White Walkers and fire arrows for the Wights would certainly be a better way to go than a few Valyrian swords, even if they are in fact the real deal for killing White Walkers.

(Well, I'm not sure being attacked by burning zombies is any sort of picnic.)

 

[Back door hodor]

Curled finger....Good point about longclaws size vs dark sister and blackfyre, after looking at it a bit myself I've come to the conclusion that you are right about Jeor, there is no reason not tp consider him reliable, so i don't really think it's either.

Regarding the passage Sam found and the mention of dragonsteel...it has been my interpretation since I first read this passage that they are one and the same, my take is that dragonsteel is the original name and that the Valyrians did not invent it, at best I would give them credit for rediscovering it but I believe they learned from either the mystery proto civilization that supposedly taught them how to ride dragons,or simply from one of the many people's they conquered