DMC Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kalbear said: The list of top-grossing movies is not exactly helpful to your point. In particular, let me point out that of the 50 top movies on that list, only one of them came out before 2012 (Avatar) and only 3 did that year. And one of those three was a re-release of Titanic. Their market is exploding, and it's exploding for things like...Warcraft, or two different Transformers movies or the xXx sequel. This isn't entirely dissimilar to the US market, mind you, but there are a number of movies that didn't do jack in the US that did extraordinarily well overseas, and those tend to be high on action, SFX, low on intricate plot or history and low on any need of backstory. Actually, that is my point -- wait! Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I entirely agree that the market is changing which speaks to your point made in the bolded. With experience, it's entirely possible China will be able to decipher the shitty expensive action movies from the good expensive action movies in a way similar to how we have. Or not. I don't know, and nobody else does either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Well, so far the overseas market doesn't appear to be changing all that much; China liked the sequels to Transformers, Fast & Furious and xXx. They liked Warcraft. Hell, Resident Evil was a major hit. It does make me happy to see that Stephen Chow is apparently a monster director in China, because Kung Fu Hustle remains one of the most perfect movies of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kalbear said: China liked the sequels to Transformers, Fast & Furious and xXx. There was a sequel to xXx? Geez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, dmc515 said: There was a sequel to xXx? Geez... There were TWO - but the one that apparently was super popular in China was the return of Xander Cage, which...uh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, Kalbear said: There were TWO - but the one that apparently was super popular in China was the return of Xander Cage, which...uh. Well, fair point on that one then. And I wish to never know who or what Xander Cage is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Rubicante said: And yes, the dialogue is Game of Thrones level bad. I would also add that there are Game of Thrones level plot holes in The Last Jedi. It's funny that you would potentially consider that blasphemy. Most people on this forum dislike the television series, including the two creators of this website. Although season 1 of the show was really good, the show was really bad in seasons 2-5 anytime the show writers tried to do anything different from the source material. And seasons 6 and 7 are borderline unwatchable. But anyhow, that's a whole other discussion. I said that in terms that no one believed that SW dialogue can be THAT bad, not that GoT writing is that good. I know ins and outs of this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 8 hours ago, dmc515 said: Well, fair point on that one then. And I wish to never know who or what Xander Cage is. Zander Kage is a MAN A man who goes fast, takes risks, loves bitches, and drinks Corona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Pony Queen Jace said: Zander Kage is a MAN A man who goes fast, takes risks, loves bitches, and drinks Corona Dominic Toretto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 40 minutes ago, Fez said: Dominic Toretto? He has many names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 To be fair, Return of Xander Cage had Donnie Yen in it, so its popularity in China isn't that mysterious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Rogue One has Donnie Yen, too. Did it perform better than the other SW films? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K3 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 20 hours ago, mormont said: Yeah, this is a good example of what I mean. In response to scepticism about the idea that casting black actors hurts films, people give anecdotes about how backward Chinese people are. No facts are provided, no irony detected. Look, people in the USA are pretty bloody racist. It's part of US politics and everyday life. Stereotypes? Discrimination? Yeah, all that plus open racism from the highest level. It doesn't hurt box office takings. I mean, I can provide links if you want. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/beyond-the-pale-chinas-cheerful-racists/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/27/china-and-india-have-a-huge-problem-with-racism-toward-black-people/?utm_term=.756bc8cad259 http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/24/world/asia/china-tinted-prejudice/index.html https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/07/on-being-black-in-china/277878/ - for a more optimistic outlook I'm not denying that people in the US are deeply racist; of course they are! As are people in every country, even the most "progressive, "from Canada to Sweden. But China is a fairly ethnically homogeneous state where stereotypes about black people are more commonly accepted, and where it is generally more acceptable to voice these stereotypes without controversy (you can also see this in countries like Italy, where posters for Twelve Years a Slave prominently featured Brad Pitt). When Disney minimizes Finn in the marketing posters for The Force Awakens, it's not unreasonable to suspect that the reason they do so is because they know that black leads will be unpopular among Chinese audiences. This isn't about "Chinese people being backward," and it doesn't suggest that black leads will never succeed in China, particularly as basketball grows more popular there and China grows more multicultural. But to deny that China has these problems seems... very weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Corvinus said: Rogue One has Donnie Yen, too. Did it perform better than the other SW films? The article I linked said it made $68 million, about half what TFA did. They don't think TLJ will make as much as Rogue One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 14 hours ago, dmc515 said: I agree that Poe is the "new age" Han, one way or another. It's problematic on many levels that have been heavily ruminated within this thread. Anyway, disregarding the argument Poe should be executed for treason, he does not attain the charisma of Ford's Han. I think some of this is because the new movies are trying way too hard. One "then I'll see you in hell!" is infinitely better than the belabored opening comedic scene with Poe in TLJ. I gotta say I still don't see a lot of Han in Poe. For me Poe is mostly a cross between Leia and Luke. Dedicated to the Rebel cause from the moment we met him (Leia). A natural leader (Leia). An insulter of the bad guys (Leia). A superhotshot fighter pilot (Luke). So passionate and super-enthusiastic he's prone to tunnel vision and rash decisions (Luke). I don't think any of the new three is a whole lot like Han. The closest is probably Finn (unconvinced he should stick around and help the Rebel cause and always in over his head, making stuff up as he goes) but - just like Rey and Poe (and BB-8) - Finn is too high-energy and mega-enthusiastic to be the new Han. Really the only character have in The Last Jedi who resembles Han in any meaningful way is Benicio's character, DJ. Only DJ has anything like Han's trademark streetwise skepticality/cynicism and pragmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Caligula_K3 said: I mean, I can provide links if you want. OK. So you've provided links that show evidence that racism in China hurts the box office of Western films with black leads? Well done. Oh, wait, no, you haven't provided any such thing. As you were, then. Since I've never said there is no racism in China, your links don't further the discussion at all. The issue is whether Western studios are making self-fulfilling assumptions about the Chinese audience for films with black leads. You've argued that 'they know black leads will be unpopular among Chinese audiences', but how do they know that? Aren't they just assuming it? And once you assume it's true, you amend your marketing and distribution accordingly, and lo and behold, those films do worse. This whole discussion, for example, started with Finn being removed from the poster in China. Did any Chinese person ask for that, or was it done by Western execs who just assumed? Anyway, we have digressed significantly from the thread topic, so let's leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 10:19 AM, Nictarion said: Didn’t they cut Finn out of the poster for TFA? There could be some other reasons this trilogy isn’t doing well over there... He was actually minimized. Poe and Chewbacca were removed. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/07/fans-cry-racism-as-chinese-star-wars-poster-shrinks-black-actor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Racism against wookies is really rampant over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 5 hours ago, RumHam said: Racism against wookies is really rampant over there. Where isn’t it? Chewie is still waiting on that medal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 6 hours ago, Davrum said: Really the only character have in The Last Jedi who resembles Han in any meaningful way is Benicio's character, DJ. Only DJ has anything like Han's trademark streetwise skepticality/cynicism and pragmatism. That's fair, although I think if any of the main characters resembles Han it is definitely Poe. He literally rebelled against the "rebels." Finn is far too...vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrum Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, dmc515 said: That's fair, although I think if any of the main characters resembles Han it is definitely Poe. He literally rebelled against the "rebels." Finn is far too...vulnerable. Han never rebelled against the "rebels". He tried to run away from the "rebels". Then he realized he was wrong and came back. That's a Finn thing, not a Poe thing. Poe IS the most experienced of the ST three, like Han was of the OT three. AND he's a "white" dude with dark hair like Han. That's all I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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