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Westeros Experts League 2018

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Whiskeyjack Council Member

Whiskeyjack

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, boiled leather said:

A.  While I'm not wild about the trade, I vote to let it go through.  I've got mya's back

B.  I don't get the outrage.  It seems in line with 75% of the trades @Whiskey Jack has offered me over the years. (always be on the side with the best player!)

C.  @Mya Stone if it gets over turned by the evil empire, buzz me and lets chat.

Not sure how approving this trade is equal to having Mya's back.  Seems the opposite to me.

Also, I don't know who Whiskey Jack is, but I'm sure he'll be excited to get your message.

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JJ Lannister Sellsword

JJ Lannister

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And the experts season is off and running. My opinion on trades is that of there is no evidence of collusion and the trade can be validated by both owners (Even if I don't agree with the owners opinions) I don't veto. 

As someone in the past that had massive internet issues during an Experts draft and was subsequently Jaxomed because of it, I tried my best to make trades that helped my team for the better. Rivers for Zeke is not helping Mya's team be competitive. She still has another hole at QB and didn't upgrade any other part of her roster. If say Murray and Kupp were a part of the deal I would have no problem with it at all. But Zeke for Rivers isn't even close.

I think the league vetoing the trade is having Mya's back more so than anything else. She could get a helluva lot more for Zeke. We are trying to help make her team competitive. I think I speak for most everyone when I say this league is a lot more fun with Mya in it. She's been a mainstay and someone everyone on the board has at least a small amount of affection for. 

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Dunknegg Sellsword

Dunknegg

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Whiskeyjack said:

The issue is that the trade of Rivers for Zeke is so bad that it is league breaking.  I say this as somebody who feels that owners should be allowed to make their own decisions in almost every situation.  I don't care if a trade is unbalanced and one person wins, not even if that person wins by a lot.  But this is way over the top.  I suspect you know that.

I’m not sure why you would call it league breaking?  This will nether put Mya over the top nor will it guarantee me making the playoffs much less winning it which I get the sense that is what upsets some.   Seattle just got what most people felt was a MAJOR win in their trade with Houston, but I’m not aware of the league telling Houston “you don’t know what you are doing and we don’t think this is fair to all of Seattle’s opponents so we nullify the trade”. 

I know this is not apples to apples...this is only a game and that is actually the real world.

I win IF:  Zeke shows up (absolutely no guarantee) AND plays all 16 games AND plays like he has done in the past AND if the Redskins suck AND if Haskins somehow overcomes both McCoy and Keenum before the 2/3 mark of the season AND doesn’t play like a rookie.  That’s a lot of IF’s. Otherwise, I’ve screwed myself.

And...more importantly, IF I win, that only means I was better making the deal than not making the deal...that in NO WAY means that Mya necessarily loses. She stands to win too if her team performs better after the deal than before it.  If we both win, which I think we both think we had a good chance to do by agreeing to a trade, is that a bad thing?  Would you you condone someone making a trade if they thought it was going to hurt their team?  Would you do that?  It feels like you are insulting Mya’s ability going on about this.

Personally, I would not give the shirt off my back just to help anyone and do so if I didn’t think it would benefit me in some small way. This is a big risk I’m taking too.

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Jaime L Council Member

Jaime L

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Dunknegg said:

First of all, I’ll abide by whatever the league decides too. 

It is a shame that one is presumed to be competent enough to make decisions on their own unless their opinion is vastly different than “your” own...meaning “your” collectively, not you specifically Jaime.

If you disagree with this agreed upon trade going through, what this tells me is that if “you” think that it is an unfair trade that a) you were either too lazy to make a better offer or make sure you communicated that offer to ensure receipt, b) don’t care enough about the league to stay abreast of what’s going on at this time of year no less, and/or worse c) you” don’t believe Mya and I (and everyone else here including yourself) is intelligent enough to compare offers, make an intelligent decision on our own, select “decline”, select “counter”, respond with a “let me think about it” or completely ignore it which would not be proper etiquette in my opinion. There is no other reason. That should fall squarely on your shoulders, not either of us. Just because “you” think you are smarter than everyone else doesn’t make it so. Allow those things to sink in before responding.

I get crappy offers that are very one-sided all the time, but I don’t call the person out publicly like at least one person here has done to me nor do I make decisions that I believe will hurt my team.  This offer has been with Mya for several days so it is not her fault she didn’t get a better offer and she, after considering her many options decided to accept an offer that others would not have.  We might as well turn over her ownership to the league committee so everyone will feel good about themselves.  

Does this mean I should to complain every time I think a trade is grossly unequal in my opinion?  

I hope that is not the desire of the league because I don’t agree with most of the trades that occur either here or in other leagues but you don’t hear me complain because while I have a right to disagree with ANY transaction by ANY team, I agree to defer to their own judgement to make adult decisions and not try to babysit everyone.  I guarantee you that this year in this league, some of you will offer and/or consummate trades that appear to be extremely unfair, but due to the circumstances, they will be allowed. Week 1 counts as much or more than does Week 12. It just it appears to count more at the end because teams are scrambling. but had a team performed better at the outset, they wouldn’t be desperate enough to make what appears to most as an unfair trade and not a person says a word. If you don’t believe me, just wait and see or better yet go back and see past years.

But like I said earlier, if you think you know better than I do what is best for MY team, don’t expect others to treat you with the same amount of respect you believe you have earned by being here.

Im sorry you are being shown so little respect Mya.

 

We have a long history in these leagues of letting people make their own decisions. If there is any possible grounds to give benefit of the doubt I've done so. 99% of deals go through, including many that I feel are very unequal. This is the 1%.

We literally just had an auction where we collectively decided as a league what the objective value of these players are. But suddenly this is just my opinion on players? That's rich.  You offered $15 of player value for $58 days after the draft. You could've offered more. You chose to offer this. Even if you, or I, or anyone else has different values for the specific players in the trade there's no scenario where the two sides approach being the same. I know you know this. And this questioning the integrity of why people are voting to veto... it's not a good look man. This is Experts, you gotta expect people to have strong opinions on deals. 

Mya's been a helluva player in Experts. Honestly one of the best. You don't last 12 years in the league without knowing your shit. I think if she'd had more time to look into it, she'd agree this deal isn't up to her usual standards. I think if it does go through, it'll destroy any chances Mya has to field a competitive team. 

Regardless there's still rules I gotta abide by. And this deal only gets overturned if one more person votes to veto. Going to give it until midday tomorrow to see if anyone else votes to veto.. If not, the deal goes through. 

 

 

 

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Whiskeyjack Council Member

Whiskeyjack

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Dunknegg said:

I’m not sure why you would call it league breaking?  This will nether put Mya over the top nor will it guarantee me making the playoffs much less winning it which I get the sense that is what upsets some.   Seattle just got what most people felt was a MAJOR win in their trade with Houston, but I’m not aware of the league telling Houston “you don’t know what you are doing and we don’t think this is fair to all of Seattle’s opponents so we nullify the trade”. 

I know this is not apples to apples...this is only a game and that is actually the real world.

I win IF:  Zeke shows up (absolutely no guarantee) AND plays all 16 games AND plays like he has done in the past AND if the Redskins suck AND if Haskins somehow overcomes both McCoy and Keenum before the 2/3 mark of the season AND doesn’t play like a rookie.  That’s a lot of IF’s. Otherwise, I’ve screwed myself.

And...more importantly, IF I win, that only means I was better making the deal than not making the deal...that in NO WAY means that Mya necessarily loses. She stands to win too if her team performs better after the deal than before it.  If we both win, which I think we both think we had a good chance to do by agreeing to a trade, is that a bad thing?  Would you you condone someone making a trade if they thought it was going to hurt their team?  Would you do that?  It feels like you are insulting Mya’s ability going on about this.

Personally, I would not give the shirt off my back just to help anyone and do so if I didn’t think it would benefit me in some small way. This is a big risk I’m taking too.

You are being disingenuous.

Honestly difficult to read posts like this and not laugh.

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JJ Lannister Sellsword

JJ Lannister

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Dunknegg said:

. This is a big risk I’m taking too.

Dunk there is zero risk in this for you. You're giving up a low end QB2 for a top 5 pick. Even if he doesn't play the only difference in your line up is Allen instead of Rivers. In my opinion they are pretty interchangeable because of Allen's rushing stats. Absolutely no risk involved on your end. 

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boiled leather Council Member

boiled leather

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Whiskeyjack said:

Not sure how approving this trade is equal to having Mya's back.  Seems the opposite to me.

Also, I don't know who Whiskey Jack is, but I'm sure he'll be excited to get your message.

you're right. I veto this trade.

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Dunknegg Sellsword

Dunknegg

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Posted

I hear you guys and I tried to offer Mya a better deal but because it involves players already included in the trade that she accepted, it will not let it go through. I will try sending it to her another way so she can weigh in.

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JJ Lannister Sellsword

JJ Lannister

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Don't get me wrong, I was looking to help not take advantage. 

But goddamn if I didn't want my offer to be the most fair.

Same here. Keeping Zeke and Saquan will keep her competitive all year and her team has a chance to be really good if her WR's play well. 

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