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Westeros Experts League 2018

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6 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Sometimes you get to your Wyk and realize it isn't as Great as the brochures made it sound.  And nobody wants to play in Barely Tolerable Wyk.

Old Wyk was right there too! Amazing history. Could've started up a rivalry with Harlaw. 

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1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

Old Wyk was right there too! Amazing history. Could've started up a rivalry with Harlaw. 

So many missed opportunities. 

Quote

The first sept in the Iron Islands was built on Great Wyk during the reign of King Wulfgar Hoare.[5]

Hoare Castle, the seat of House Hoare on Great Wyk, was destroyed by Ser Aubrey Crakehall after the defeat of King Hagon Hoare.[

 

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26 minutes ago, Week said:

So many missed opportunities. 

My God, for the "why don't you go back to your home on whore island" jokes alone...

Edited by Jaime L

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4 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Also need to say it's outrageous that Jace moved her team mere moments after the draft. Great Wyk was giddy to finally have a franchise and then to rip it away before providing even a single regular season game is heartless. 

Now the Great Wykians are forced to watch Eli Manning and Ryan Fitzpatrick light it up for another city, left to only imagine the glory they could've brought to the big island. 

This is like the Sonics moving to OKC but like 10 times worse.  

 

4 hours ago, Bronn Stone said:

Sometimes you get to your Wyk and realize it isn't as Great as the brochures made it sound.  And nobody wants to play in Barely Tolerable Wyk.

Duskendale put up public money for the Tourney Grounds

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Another trade for Jaime.

He gives Alfred Morris
I give James Conner


He locks down the Steelers RB situation.  And I get a more viable fourth RB.

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Big Trade in Experts

Jace gets:
Evan Engram
Jameis Winston
Alfred Morris
Chargers D

Bronn gets:
Rob Gronkowski
Courtland Sutton
Jordan Wilkins

For those scoring at home, this is the second time AlfMo and Jordan Wilkins have been traded in this young season. 

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Anyone going to bother justifying their trades? Don't we typically do that for large trades (especially pretty lopsided trades)? Usually there is a cacophony after a trade like this - the silence is strange. 

Edited by Week

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17 minutes ago, Week said:

Anyone going to bother justifying their trades? Don't we typically do that for large trades (especially pretty lopsided trades)? Usually there is a cacophony after a trade like this - the silence is strange. 

Personally I am glad the trade went through because it stopped all the ALL CAPS chatting from Jace during the Keeper draft :)

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I thought it was pretty clear a 4 for 1 1/2 plus a body.  I have depth and Jace needs QB help and a better DT. 

The auction dollars on this weren't that far apart.  Jace paid $25 for Gronk and $2 for Sutton.  I paid $3 for the Chargers, $8 for Engram, $5 for Winston and had to give up a $6 player to get Morris in a trade (who also went for $6).  And my guys were mostly drafted later in the draft when people were out of money.  I have no doubt that if Winston and Conner went earlier in the draft they'd have been much more expensive.

In fact we have a supplemental trade because this happened during the Keeper draft and there wasn't time to haggle it out with back and forth.   I'm giving her back Sutton for Doug Martin.  I need an RB4/5 far more than another WR flier.

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4 for 1 trades are not a known quantity. 2 for 1 - yes - but not 4 for 1 in fantasy football. The top TE (by a longshot) for a DEF, back-end TE1, suspended back-end QB2, and an RB3 -- and a waiver scrub. 

Auction dollars are irrelevant as soon as the draft is over -- they are an easy valuation (duh) -- but the auction VALUE (debatable) and team construction (not debatable) is far more relevant.

We have always posted at least a blurb of justification after trades to keep everyone honest and to have some sort of ongoing activity in the league. FFS, Jace's week 1 lineup went from Gronk to Engram and Cleveland DEF to LAC DEF. That's a loss -- for the hopes of improving a few weeks into the season?

I just don't understand it -- better offers would have to come or be solicited for Gronk. I would have considered moving Mariota or Tyrod/Mayfield, but I didn't expect either to get it done for Gronk.

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1 hour ago, Week said:

4 for 1 trades are not a known quantity. 2 for 1 - yes - but not 4 for 1 in fantasy football. The top TE (by a longshot) for a DEF, back-end TE1, suspended back-end QB2, and an RB3 -- and a waiver scrub. 

Auction dollars are irrelevant as soon as the draft is over -- they are an easy valuation (duh) -- but the auction VALUE (debatable) and team construction (not debatable) is far more relevant.

We have always posted at least a blurb of justification after trades to keep everyone honest and to have some sort of ongoing activity in the league. FFS, Jace's week 1 lineup went from Gronk to Engram and Cleveland DEF to LAC DEF. That's a loss -- for the hopes of improving a few weeks into the season?

I just don't understand it -- better offers would have to come or be solicited for Gronk. I would have considered moving Mariota or Tyrod/Mayfield, but I didn't expect either to get it done for Gronk.

Engram is fourth in Yahoo auction league TE pre-rankings and fifth in the most realistic objective stat out there - Avg Cost in auction drafts.  In our league he's part of the pack at 6th, but I think the general consensus is he's first or second among those.

You discount the value of defenses, as do most experts.  But leagues where you start two are rare and in this one, BL and I had 8 of the top 11 by total projected value.  Whether I wasted my money or not remains to be seen, but if you want a top defense, you're paying my price or you aren't getting one from me.  When the Bye weeks start in earnest, the three that remain on waivers are going to get passed around like the workplace-inappropriate metaphor of your choice.  There are a lot of teams with only two.

And most importantly, anyone who attended the draft for Keeper can attest - Jace wanted this deal a LOT.  She begged a dozen times for me to check the offer she'd made.

Jace is starting Ryan Fitzpatrick.  After that, her only spare QB is Peterman.  You like the CLE QB situation, she likes TB.  Tomato, Tomahto.  I think I agree with her if it is for a starter and you if you are drafting for a flyer.   If I expected to have to start them all season, I'd definitely put TB over CLE for QB.

Harlaw was the place where she could get the remaining half of her QB situation, a middle of the pack TE1 (not back-end by any objective source of which I'm aware), a risky but at-least starting RB and an mid-tier DEF1.  So she went for it.

 

Edited by Bronn Stone

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Bronn -- my quibble is not with you now that you've said your piece. Although this justification holds less water than those historically that you have had violent disagreements with. The V-word was not even bandied about.

@Jace, Basilissa, bruh, what gives? You post a million-times a minute we're getting crickets. Dude, Trade is bad. You cannot tell me you couldn't get more for Gronk because I would have offered more.

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I can't seem to quote a post without keeping the @ for a person who isn't part of the thing I want to quote.

But I didn't mention the V-word either.

I can't think of a single historical instance of a trade I've argued over where the auction dollar values were relatively close and no major changes had occurred for the players in the intervening time.  It is the gold standard of measures, even as you assert its meaninglessness.  In a free and open market the other day, the values for 240 players were set.  Sure the mob overspent early as they always do and a $3 player in overall pick 40 is likely less valuable than a $3 player in pick 140 but those numbers have meaning.  Far more meaning than each owner's individual mystery values.

Now if you had been willing to go Mariota, Graham, Breida and Detroit for Gronk, Sutton and a lesser defense, then perhaps Jace missed an opportunity.  But she came to me with the offer.  When I got the offer, I checked the players first and the values second and only then accepted.  I think I am wholly consistent.

 

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The auction values are not perfect nor do I assert they are.  They're just the best thing we have.

Edited by Bronn Stone

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Auction value and auction actual dollars are two different things and not really germane here. 

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3 hours ago, Week said:

4 for 1 trades are not a known quantity. 2 for 1 - yes - but not 4 for 1 in fantasy football. The top TE (by a longshot) for a DEF, back-end TE1, suspended back-end QB2, and an RB3 -- and a waiver scrub. 

Auction dollars are irrelevant as soon as the draft is over -- they are an easy valuation (duh) -- but the auction VALUE (debatable) and team construction (not debatable) is far more relevant.

We have always posted at least a blurb of justification after trades to keep everyone honest and to have some sort of ongoing activity in the league. FFS, Jace's week 1 lineup went from Gronk to Engram and Cleveland DEF to LAC DEF. That's a loss -- for the hopes of improving a few weeks into the season?

I just don't understand it -- better offers would have to come or be solicited for Gronk. I would have considered moving Mariota or Tyrod/Mayfield, but I didn't expect either to get it done for Gronk.

 

1 hour ago, Week said:

Bronn -- my quibble is not with you now that you've said your piece. Although this justification holds less water than those historically that you have had violent disagreements with. The V-word was not even bandied about.

@Jace, Basilissa, bruh, what gives? You post a million-times a minute we're getting crickets. Dude, Trade is bad. You cannot tell me you couldn't get more for Gronk because I would have offered more.

I tried to move Gronk since the draft ended, nobody was giving me a decent offer. And I believe you told me you had no interest until week 5.

I INITIATED this trade. Sure, I wish I'd asked for a bit more in hindsight coming off a 36 hour stint at work. But I am content with it. 

Don't try and tell me what I could have gotten elsewhere. I know exactly what the fuck I was offered.

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I didn't have a problem with this trade.  It was obvious that Jace desperately needed another QB, and her team is in much better shape now than before.  I think her projected score increased by about 150 points after the trade.  Winston, Engram, and LAC are all good and would start on most teams. Maybe Jace could have gotten more, but if you didn't make her a better offer, I don't get why you are complaining about this.

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25 minutes ago, Week said:

Auction value and auction actual dollars are two different things and not really germane here. 

I don't understanding what you are asserting.  I claim that what players cost in an auction two or three days ago is the very best determinant of value for trades, barring intervening events.  "Week thinks you spent too much or too little" is not an intervening event.  It isn't perfect, but every person had the chance to nominate every player and bid on every player and either didn't choose to or didn't save enough to be able to do so.   It's the best we have.  And a difference of a few dollars here and there have never set me off.  But when someone trades a bunch of $1 and $2 players for some with real value I am going to say something.  That didn't happen here.  A $25 a $2 and a $1 went for a $8, $6, $5 and $3.

Of course I thought I won the trade.  I wouldn't have made it otherwise.  I suspect Jace feels the same from her side.

Edited by Bronn Stone

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