Maester Yandel Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I haven't found a page on awoiaf that clarifies the earning of this title; only that of Petyr Baelish's. He was granted the title "Lord Protector of the Eyrie and the Vale of Arryn" after marrying Lysa Arryn. Robert Arryn is currently the "Lord of the Eyrie". Furthermore, when Tywin Lannister told Tyrion Lannister that he is to wed Sansa Stark, he imagined himself as "Lord Protector of Winterfell" should Robb die then Sansa is to inherit Winterfell and their firstborn son will be the "Lord of Winterfell". (A Storm of Swords, Chapter 19, Tyrion III) So, does this mean that when a noble lord marries the unwed/widowed lady of a seat/castle or a region, he is granted the title "Lord Protector"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Maester Yandel said: I haven't found a page on awoiaf that clarifies the earning of this title; only that of Petyr Baelish's. He was granted the title "Lord Protector of the Eyrie and the Vale of Arryn" after marrying Lysa Arryn. Robert Arryn is currently the "Lord of the Eyrie". Furthermore, when Tywin Lannister told Tyrion Lannister that he is to wed Sansa Stark, he imagined himself as "Lord Protector of Winterfell" should Robb die then Sansa is to inherit Winterfell and their firstborn son will be the "Lord of Winterfell". (A Storm of Swords, Chapter 19, Tyrion III) So, does this mean that when a noble lord marries the unwed/widowed lady of a seat/castle or a region, he is granted the title "Lord Protector"? Presumably only when the bride has not yet reached the age of majority, or is otherwise unable to rule by herself (or himself, in the case of a Lord Protector for a lord). So in other words, when one serves as a regent for a lord or lady of a Great House (that's what the examples imply, at least), the title can be assumed. The examples that we have (based on this search) mostly are about Lord Protectors for ruling lords or ladies who are in their minority: Eddard Stark as Lord Protector for the twelve-year old Joffrey Baratheon, Petyr Baelish for the eight-year old Robert Arryn, Tyrion Lannister potentially for the twelve-year old Sansa Stark, Lord Yobert Royce for Lady Jeyne Arryn (who was in her minority, though her exact age at the time is unknown), and Lord Robar Baratheon for the fourteen-year old Jaehaerys I Targaryen. The only instance of a Lord Protector that we have that appears to have nothing to do with age is Aemond Targaryen, who apparently assumes the title after his brother, King Aegon II, becomes bedridden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Yandel Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: Presumably only when the bride has not yet reached the age of majority, or is otherwise unable to rule by herself (or himself, in the case of a Lord Protector for a lord). So in other words, when one serves as a regent for a lord or lady of a Great House (that's what the examples imply, at least), the title can be assumed. The examples that we have (based on this search) mostly are about Lord Protectors for ruling lords or ladies who are in their minority: Eddard Stark as Lord Protector for the twelve-year old Joffrey Baratheon, Petyr Baelish for the eight-year old Robert Arryn, Tyrion Lannister potentially for the twelve-year old Sansa Stark, Lord Yobert Royce for Lady Jeyne Arryn (who was in her minority, though her exact age at the time is unknown), and Lord Robar Baratheon for the fourteen-year old Jaehaerys I Targaryen. The only instance of a Lord Protector that we have that appears to have nothing to do with age is Aemond Targaryen, who apparently assumes the title after his brother, King Aegon II, becomes bedridden. "So in other words, when one serves as a regent for a lord or lady of a Great House (that's what the examples imply, at least), the title can be assumed" Lysa Arryn is already the Lady Regent of Robert Arryn. Why would Robert need another regent? Or why would Lysa Arryn need a regent (she's not a minority and it wasn't stated in the books that she's uncapable of ruling)? "The only instance of a Lord Protector that we have that appears to have nothing to do with age is Aemond Targaryen, who apparently assumes the title after his brother, King Aegon II, becomes bedridden." I thought Eddard Stark was a Lord Regent and Aemond Targaryen was a Prince Regent? Now this confused me more. What's the difference between a Regent and a Lord Protector? Pretty sure there is a separate Lord/Prince/Queen Regent titles and a separate Lord Protector (as there is no case of a Prince/Queen Protector) title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Maester Yandel said: "So in other words, when one serves as a regent for a lord or lady of a Great House (that's what the examples imply, at least), the title can be assumed" Lysa Arryn is already the Lady Regent of Robert Arryn. Why would Robert need another regent? Or why would Lysa Arryn need a regent (she's not a minority and it wasn't stated in the books that she's uncapable of ruling)? "The only instance of a Lord Protector that we have that appears to have nothing to do with age is Aemond Targaryen, who apparently assumes the title after his brother, King Aegon II, becomes bedridden." I thought Eddard Stark was a Lord Regent and Aemond Targaryen was a Prince Regent? Now this confused me more. What's the difference between a Regent and a Lord Protector? Pretty sure there is a separate Lord/Prince/Queen Regent titles and a separate Lord Protector (as there is no case of a Prince/Queen Protector) title. Being a regent does not automatically mean being a Lord Protector, nor the other way around. For example, King Jaehaerys I's regent was his mother, while his Lord Protector was the Lord of Storm's End. Perhaps the two functions are often held by the same person, but they are not exclusive to one another. (At least not in Martin's work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Yandel Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 49 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: Being a regent does not automatically mean being a Lord Protector, nor the other way around. For example, King Jaehaerys I's regent was his mother, while his Lord Protector was the Lord of Storm's End. I was confused because you said that Aemond Targaryen was a Lord Protector, when really he's a Prince Regent. I never said that a regent is automatically a Lord Protector. I was actually finding their difference since they are being used differently in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Maester Yandel said: I was confused because you said that Aemond Targaryen was a Lord Protector, when really he's a Prince Regent. I never said that a regent is automatically a Lord Protector. I was actually finding their difference since they are being used differently in the books. Aemond was both Prince Regent and Protector of the Realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Yandel Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: Aemond was both Prince Regent and Protector of the Realm Yes since royal regents can take the title of "Protector of the Realm" which is reserved for kings. But I'm pretty sure that's a different title as well. Let's just stick into "Lord Protector". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Beaudreau Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 6:23 AM, Maester Yandel said: I haven't found a page on awoiaf that clarifies the earning of this title; only that of Petyr Baelish's. He was granted the title "Lord Protector of the Eyrie and the Vale of Arryn" after marrying Lysa Arryn. Robert Arryn is currently the "Lord of the Eyrie". Furthermore, when Tywin Lannister told Tyrion Lannister that he is to wed Sansa Stark, he imagined himself as "Lord Protector of Winterfell" should Robb die then Sansa is to inherit Winterfell and their firstborn son will be the "Lord of Winterfell". (A Storm of Swords, Chapter 19, Tyrion III) So, does this mean that when a noble lord marries the unwed/widowed lady of a seat/castle or a region, he is granted the title "Lord Protector"? There are so many Titles to keep track of and they are contantly changing. Presumably, some overlap with others, or include a castle/lands but many do not. Some pass through the hereditary line, other are only thought too. Examples are the Warden of the East/vale of Arryn is seemingly a title only reserved for whoever the Lord Arryn is. West=Lannister, North=Stark, South= Tyrell. These Titles have all come to be hereditary and imply also that you are the Lord Paramount of the Region or "kingdom" and occupy the Castle that goes along with it. Tyrion Marrying Sansa to become the Lord of Winterfell this is very much about the Norths' view of having a Stark bloodline maintained in Winterfell solely for Bannermen and Smallfolk sake. Tyrek Marrying the Darry girl, very much about Bloodlines and the Smallfolks' view of the lords of Darry. Ramsey Snow, Manderly, Umber all wanted to marry Lady Hornwood because in their minds a marriage to her grants them all of the lands of the Hornwood, But the problem here is that anytime we've been dealing with the female line, the inheritance is pretty much discredited. Which bring up all sorts of questions for our characters to think about. Is Littlefinger the Warden of the East because he married Lysa? Is Ramsey Lord Paramount of the North because he married fake Arya? Tommen is Lord of Storm's End but will seemly name someone protector of the Stormlands etc. From the very beginning GRRM is putting this notion into our heads but also defying it with things like Jamie Lannister being named Warden of the East, and Littlefinger Lord Paramount of the Trident to make us as prickly about these titles as our characters. I see soooooo so many discussions/arguments on here about Titles, Rightful heir, line of succession, Who gets what if this person dies or marrys this person. I usually just sit back and laugh because GRRM just made his fans squable over the same things our character does. And if these books have taught us anything, its that if someone is the rightful owner of something the will most likely never sit on, inherit, own it. Ex. Samwell, Stannis, Dany, Arianne, Dance of Dragons, Ameon etc. the list goes on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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