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DanteGabriel

NFL 2017-18 Playoffs: circling the wagons

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I'm naming this thread in honor of the Bills getting into the postseason again, but I also wanted to try the strongest Summon Manhole spell I can think of:

Childhood 49er fan Tom Brady is the Secret Santa of the team, because, if reports are to be believed, he's the one who forced Belichick to deal Handsome Jimmy.

https://deadspin.com/here-is-my-49er-centric-conspiracy-theory-about-the-pat-1821806153

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Posted (edited)

As mentioned on last page of the other thread, I think there’s a lot of Montana-Young in that relationship.

Saw that the BBK triumvirate issued a joint statement calling the Wickersham piece bollocks.  But I’m also reminded of a piece the same guy wrote detailing the early days of the breakdown between Harbaugh and Niners upper mgt.  Fans blasted that.  The Niners issued statements denying it... and it all turned out to be true.

I think there is likely a lot of truth to be had in today’s article.

Edited by Rhom

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I'm willing to believe there's some drama in Foxboro. A group of people gets successful enough and each starts thinking they're the real star of the show.

There's smoke from the Guerrero banishment and the weird timing and bad price on the Garoppolo trade. Wouldn't be surprised that there have been some quietly smoldering embers there.

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8 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm willing to believe there's some drama in Foxboro. A group of people gets successful enough and each starts thinking they're the real star of the show.

There's smoke from the Guerrero banishment and the weird timing and bad price on the Garoppolo trade. Wouldn't be surprised that there have been some quietly smoldering embers there.

Now you're rubbing it in our faces that the Patriots have a fire to keep them warm in this wintery hell!?! You go too far, sir!

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9 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Now you're rubbing it in our faces that the Patriots have a fire to keep them warm in this wintery hell!?! You go too far, sir!

You, too, can have access to the secrets of fire and warmth, for the low low price of a $19.99 subscription to the TB12 Method.

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Most NFL coaches contracts are fully guaranteed.  If the Raiders just gave Gruden a ten year fully guaranteed contract, then they are fools. 

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42 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Most NFL coaches contracts are fully guaranteed.  If the Raiders just gave Gruden a ten year fully guaranteed contract, then they are fools. 

Every time I think I've seen the dumbest possible expenditure of resources related to sports, someone goes and ups the ante. 

Oddly enough this is (at least) the second time a member of the Davis family has been the guilty party. 

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What is the attraction of Gruden?  He won one superbowl by psyching out his former QB and using the team built by Dungy.  I don't get why anyone would sign him let alone to a massive 10 year deal.  Insane.  Al would be proud I guess?

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17 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

What is the attraction of Gruden?  He won one superbowl by psyching out his former QB and using the team built by Dungy.  I don't get why anyone would sign him let alone to a massive 10 year deal.  Insane.  Al would be proud I guess?

Gruden built a bad Oakland team into a Super Bowl contender, and then took a good Tampa Bay team over the top, something Dungy may never have done.  So at his best, he's a very good coach.  The problem is that Gruden stayed at Tampa Bay until 2009, and never had any noteworthy successes after the Super Bowl year.  I would be very worried that the Raiders signed a has-been.  You know who else was considered a really good coach in the early 2000s?  Jeff Fischer and John Fox. 

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10 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Gruden built a bad Oakland team into a Super Bowl contender, and then took a good Tampa Bay team over the top, something Dungy may never have done.  So at his best, he's a very good coach.  The problem is that Gruden stayed at Tampa Bay until 2009, and never had any noteworthy successes after the Super Bowl year.  I would be very worried that the Raiders signed a has-been.  You know who else was considered a really good coach in the early 2000s?  Jeff Fischer and John Fox. 

I still think Fox is a good coach, not a great one, not a very good one, but good.  How Fisher managed to stay a head coach for 100 years with .500 and no playoff wins for 10? years, I have no idea.  Gruden to me has massive clusterfuck written all over it.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I still think Fox is a good coach, not a great one, not a very good one, but good.  How Fisher managed to stay a head coach for 100 years with .500 and no playoff wins for 10? years, I have no idea.  Gruden to me has massive clusterfuck written all over it.

Carolina | 9 years | 73-71 [5-3 in playoffs]
Denver | 4 years | 46-18 [3-4 in playoffs] (8-8 with Orton/Tebow and then 38 and 10 with Peyton...)
Chicago | 3 years | 14-34

John Fox: 16 years | 133-123 [8-7 in playoffs]

Jeff Fisher: 22 seasons | 173-165 [5-6 in playoffs]

 

Hot-take: Jeff Fisher is a better coach than John Fox. Both ~10 games over .500 -- while John Fox benefitted enormously from Peyton Manning falling into his lap (and an all-time great D due to drafting and Wade Phillips mostly).

Edited by Week

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10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I still think Fox is a good coach, not a great one, not a very good one, but good.  How Fisher managed to stay a head coach for 100 years with .500 and no playoff wins for 10? years, I have no idea.  Gruden to me has massive clusterfuck written all over it.

It's Las Vegas.  Nobody will care as long as the flash is there.  And Gruden IS flashy.

This was as much a PR move as a football move.

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Posted (edited)

So, I want to start by saying I believe 90% of what is in the ESPN story; there are also revelations by long-time Pats beat reporter, Greg Bedard in the Boston Sport's Journal (its a paid cite so, linking it won't help many here) that back-up or even go beyond the info in the ESPN piece.  

I want to state a few major things and then give you my take on all this:

1. This was not a Pats hit-piece; it was a Brady hit-piece: Virtually everything negative in the ESPN story is heaped on Brady; he was supposedly angry at never awarded "Player of the Week" by the Pats this season (I am not huge on this); accusing Brady getting Hogan hurt in the Chargers game; claims of Brady slippage; Brady being upset over Garropolo; Brady's almost sycophancy over Geurrero; Brady whining to the Krafts staffers said that Brady was guilty in Deflategate.  All of this shits on Brady;And, frankly, it can only come from one source ... 

2. A Belichick Insider is Behind this Piece (if not BB himself): Belichick comes off looking great- he, at first, was welcoming of Geurrero; that he's tough on everyone; that he liked Garropolo; that he did what he was told in trading same; that he tried to assuage discomfort with meetings; that he was evolving- becoming friends with the Commissioner and mending fences with the Colts.  All of this points to Bill being the upstanding leader of men (also, Whickersham said in an interview in Boston this morning that Bill sent a "professional" email to Geuerro kicking him out of the facility in 2014, which makes it clear that the source was BB or somebody close to him).  

So, to me, that means BB- or somebody very close to him - was the source; that the story was launched as a broad-side against the Brady because, as the story states, Brady "won."  

3. Kraft as Model: As he resigned as HC of the Pats, Bill Parcells - with that toothy, grin said, "If they want you to make the meal, they should let you buy the groceries."  This was a shot at Kraft for him and his people controlling the roster and not letting Parcells be the GM.  Enter Bill Belichick who is in charge of player personnel (during the pre-season) and has INCREDIBLE sway during the season.  It seems UNBELIEVABLY Obvious that BB wanted Jimmy G; and that Brady wnet to the Krafts and said "Change this" and so the Krafts let BB know that Jimmy G was not part of the Pats future; Greg Bidard goes so far as to say Kraft "ordered" BB to trade Jimmy G.  

We all know that BB- like Bill Parcells - hates meddling owners and it was his greatest hatred of Art Model who BB despised.  If Whickersham's article is to be believed (and I do) then it was Kraft who made this decision, not Bill.  And it pissed Bill off and he went and traded Jimmy G for a 2nd rounder.  Which was low.  BB hates this and Kraft has not done it in years. 

4. I Respectfully Dissent: The only thing in the piece I disagree with is not its factual allegations; its the prediction that has grown form the allegation, namely that this may be the end of the Pats.  This is something written about and hoped for for what feels like, now, a lifetime.  From "They Hate Their Coach" to "Will Brady Win Another Superbowl: No Way No How" to "Patriots: They're Not Good Anymore" the desire to see the wheels come off; to see the edifice crumble; to see Tywin killed on the shitter; they have pined and yearned for this day for... ever. 

But what do we say to Death: Not Today.  

Get ready to watch those wagons circled.  While the talking heads at ESPN are already claiming that BB is 75% out the door at the end of the season and that he will either go to the Giants or retire, I am not so sure.  Brady wants to win, BB wants to win; Kraft wants to win.  So ... here .. we ... go.  BB is going to claim that everyone now wants to see them fall; and that one last time... into the fucking breach.  Them against the World.  This is everything to them.  And now they will look up one last time and hit this. 

 

Anyway, here was the segment of the story that I find truthful; that it rings true.

"... in 2014, (Belichick) eliminated Guerrero's access to those meetings (where Guerrero had access to player medical records) while keeping him on as a team consultant. That was the same year Brady and Guerrero decided to market their business as revolutionary; the same year that Brady began to speak unwaveringly about playing into his mid-40s; and the same year that Belichick drafted Jimmy Garoppolo out of Eastern Illinois -- the first sign that Belichick was invested in a future that did not include the quarterback who had changed his life and legacy.

It was also the same year that the Patriots would go on a run toward their fourth Super Bowl win, altering the team dynamic in fundamental ways that would come to a head this fall....In beating the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XLIX, the two men drew strength from different touchstones. Belichick found virtue in his idea of the Patriot Way -- the demanding, football-first culture with an emotionless pursuit of victory -- and Brady found virtue in his Method, which he believed helped him thwart the inevitability of time, reinforcing his belief that he was still not on the downside of his career and deserving of a new contract. In 2016, Kraft and Brady's agent, Don Yee, began negotiating a new deal; Belichick and other Patriots staff had to abruptly leave the NFL combine in Indianapolis to be part of the process. Brady's two-year contract, with a $28 million signing bonus, was designed to set up 2018 as a key year, when the team could, in theory, look at a 41-year-old Brady and his $22 million cap hit and decide if it made sense to transition to Garoppolo."

 

Its here that we see that 2014 was the Year; Guerrero was out and that Jimmy G was in.  That Brady- who year after fucking year took the "home town discount" - looked around and noticed that he may not be as prized as he was before; that Brady wanted to see the loyalty; the price... the "love." He wanted to see real loyalty from Kraft and Kraft said yes.

BURIED in this is this question: why not keep both?  Here is why: Brady had a 2-year 28 Mil contract (14 mil a year- a FUCKING BARGAIN!).  Jimmy G was offered - according to the story - $14 Mil a year (the Brady number); and Jimmy G rejected it.  Over and over again.  The reason, was probably, playing time (never in NE; a starter almost everywhere else).  The only way after that to sign Jimmy G would be to franchise him- which could lead Jimmy G to make 28 Mil... A YEAR!  Or approximately twice what Brady was making.  Can anyone imagine the fucking shit-show that would have erupted had Brady been forced to be pad HALF as much for a guy riding the pine?  What a clearer way to send the message that this guy was your replacement? 

Brady wanted Jimmy G gone.

Jimmy G wanted playing time and a lot more money. 

They both got what they wanted.

Don Yee is Tom Brady's agent.

Don Yee is Jimmy G's agent.  

Don Yee did EXACTLY what his client wanted. Twice. 

BB did not get what he wanted and that is a thorn in his side.  This story is the result of that thorn. While I find a few points dubious (the exact amount of Jimmy G's offers; Tom getting miffed about not being named "Player of the Week"; players calling Brady "Sir"; BB sending a "professional" email to Guerrero, a person he despises), I find almost everything else completely rational, intuitive, and clear.  

And I think it won't matter.

 

Edited by Rockroi

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Just for some perspective, Jon Gruden ranks 69th all time in total winning percentage (which is 54%). This puts him behind legends of the game like Chuck Pagano, Jim Caldwell, Brian Billick, Jason Garrett, Ron Revera and Mike Smith. There's no way he's worth that contract.

How much money is Psycho Jim Harbaugh gonna make when he returns to the NFL?

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44 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

BB wants to win; 

Very well written post, Rock. I just wanted to isolate this line for one reason. Don't you think there's a good chance that BB wants to prove that he's the reason they won, not Brady or Kraft? What better way to do this than going and winning an Owl with another team?

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10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Just for some perspective, Jon Gruden ranks 69th all time in total winning percentage (which is 54%). This puts him behind legends of the game like Chuck Pagano, Jim Caldwell, Brian Billick, Jason Garrett, Ron Revera and Mike Smith. There's no way he's worth that contract.

How much money is Psycho Jim Harbaugh gonna make when he returns to the NFL?

Eleventy Billion.

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