Harrenhall Through A Little Crannogman’s Eyes

[AlaskanSandman]

22 minutes ago, LynnS said:

R+A=D - yes.... Tower of Joy - No...  Why would Ashera seclude herself at the ToJ when Starfall is available?

True. Wasn't sure to fully trust his vision or not. Plus trying to figure where Arthur was defending her at then. Unless it was the Tower at Starfall?

[King Ned Stark]

11 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

LynnS, you dazzle again straight from the books.   It's clear to me that Selmy at least believes there was some plot or secret or conspiracy at work at Harrenhal.   From Selmy's POV I rather get the impression he blames Vary's for putting the bug in Aery's ear about Rhaegar overthrowing him.  Am I nuts for taking this as probably good intel considering my source?  Rhaegar didn't plan an over throw he planned...something else!  Now that's interesting and on topic I add.  Well done.   And thanks! 

I think it’s possible that Rhaegar wasn’t planning on calling a Great Council while at the tourney, but was seeking support for calling one in the future (with Ashara as a possible go-between), and possibly Rhaegar was already looking for a second bride.

Robert Baratheon is mentioned twice in the story of tKotLT, both times with Richard Lonmouth, who we know was Rhaegar’s squire but Robert was his liege lord.  

It still doesn’t feel completely right; but it’s the only thing I can think of that fits Rhaegar’s motivations, reputation, and the timeline.

 

 

[LynnS]

16 minutes ago, King Ned Stark said:

I think it’s possible that Rhaegar wasn’t planning on calling a Great Council while at the tourney, but was seeking support for calling one in the future (with Ashara as a possible go-between), and possibly Rhaegar was already looking for a second bride.

I don't think Rhaegar knew that he needed a second bride until Aegon was born and Elia couldn't have any more  children. That's when he says that one more is needed to whomever was in the room with them.  If you go by the vision in the HoU.  That's likely to be one of Elia's ladies in waiting which makes Ashera a likely candidate.  The reason why I think that Howland/the old gods are so interested in Ashera at the tourney in the first place.  Her child will be important in the future.   

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, King Ned Stark said:

I think it’s possible that Rhaegar wasn’t planning on calling a Great Council while at the tourney, but was seeking support for calling one in the future (with Ashara as a possible go-between), and possibly Rhaegar was already looking for a second bride.

Robert Baratheon is mentioned twice in the story of tKotLT, both times with Richard Lonmouth, who we know was Rhaegar’s squire but Robert was his liege lord.  

It still doesn’t feel completely right; but it’s the only thing I can think of that fits Rhaegar’s motivations, reputation, and the timeline.

 

 

Ah, it's very nice to have you here, King Ned.  I could not agree more with your opening statements about Rhaegar's possible intentions for Harrenhal.   I am unsure if Elia was pregnant with Aegon at the time, but her struggle to birth Rhaenys would have been enough for any compassionate husband hell bent on fulfilling prophecy to at least be considering another mother to another child.   Perhaps Aegon was a huge surprise.  

The Storm Lord is mentioned 1st with the Rose Lord then we are given specific mention of the wine cup war with Richard Lonmouth.   This is just so curious.   @LynnS and @AlaskanSandman have had the most interesting conversation from many sides of the possibilities here.   For all it's worth the 1st mention may just be to show The Storm Lord's importance in conjunction with the Rose Lord.   Then we see he's a drunk with his bannerman and his cousin, Rhaegar's, squire.   We don't see Robert with Ned or Rhaegar.  It's a very curious set up. Again, I have to agree with your conclusion that Lonmouth was likely "feeling" Robert out during their contest.   They certainly weren't trying to score with the chicks.   That's odd, too. 

You see this much as I do.   It's good to be open to additional information, but I still enjoy having a reader who sees what I see.   Cheers, King Ned, join in anywhere you like.  

[Curled Finger]

46 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I don't think Rhaegar knew that he needed a second bride until Aegon was born and Elia couldn't have any more  children. That's when he says that one more is needed to whomever was in the room with them.  If you go by the vision in the HoU.  That's likely to be one of Elia's ladies in waiting which makes Ashera a likely candidate.  The reason why I think that Howland/the old gods are so interested in Ashera at the tourney in the first place.  Her child will be important in the future.   

You give me goosebumps sometimes, Lady.   I just found a missing woman, if you are interested...I have begun my much lauded reread of the series.   I am taking notes.  Willem Darry broke into the nursery at Dragonstone and took off with Viserys, Dany and her wet nurse!  I was born 3 months after my cousin and my mother was very ill for it.  My aunt actually wet nursed me for a bit while my Mom recovered.  This puts me in the mind that Ashara's child may well have been stillborn.   If as we suspect, Ashara is at the heart of conspiracy, her ability to wet nurse would be extremely valuable.   I'm not saying she is Dany's wet nurse, but Dragonstone would be a delightful place to hide.   Just a fun thought.   

[LynnS]

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

You give me goosebumps sometimes, Lady.   I just found a missing woman, if you are interested...I have begun my much lauded reread of the series.   I am taking notes.  Willem Darry broke into the nursery at Dragonstone and took off with Viserys, Dany and her wet nurse!  I was born 3 months after my cousin and my mother was very ill for it.  My aunt actually wet nursed me for a bit while my Mom recovered.  This puts me in the mind that Ashara's child may well have been stillborn.   If as we suspect, Ashara is at the heart of conspiracy, her ability to wet nurse would be extremely valuable.   I'm not saying she is Dany's wet nurse, but Dragonstone would be a delightful place to hide.   Just a fun thought.   

I'm not sure she gave birth at Dragonstone although we do have Cersei throwing stuff at Ned to see what sticks:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII

"I shall wear that as a badge of honor," Ned said dryly.

"Honor," she spat. "How dare you play the noble lord with me! What do you take me for? You've a bastard of your own, I've seen him. Who was the mother, I wonder? Some Dornish peasant you raped while her holdfast burned? A whore? Or was it the grieving sister, the Lady Ashara? She threw herself into the sea, I'm told. Why was that? For the brother you slew, or the child you stole? Tell me, my honorable Lord Eddard, how are you any different from Robert, or me, or Jaime?"

Cersei has heard something and we are told that Ashera had a girl child.  I'm also skeptical that Dany was with Viserys and Willem Derry at all.  I think it was Aerys wife who had a history of unsuccessful childbirth. So it's likely her child died.  The marriage contract that Dany and Selmy examine signed by Derry, the Sealord of Braavos says nothing about Dany whatsoever.  The description of Derry and Dany's Old Bear don't seem to fit. 

You might find this interesting:

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/1494/crackpot-oberyn-oberon-changeling-child

 

[Curled Finger]

16 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm not sure she gave birth at Dragonstone although we do have Cersei throwing stuff at Ned to see what sticks:

Cersei has heard something and we are told that Ashera had a girl child.  I'm also skeptical that Dany was with Viserys and Willem Derry at all.  I think it was Aerys wife who had a history of unsuccessful childbirth. So it's likely her child died.  The marriage contract that Dany and Selmy examine signed by Derry, the Sealord of Braavos says nothing about Dany whatsoever.  The description of Derry and Dany's Old Bear don't seem to fit. 

You might find this interesting:

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/1494/crackpot-oberyn-oberon-changeling-child

 

I do enjoy the last hearth, but I haven't visited in a while.   Thanks for reminding me of good reading.   As you know I'm listening to AGOT again.   It's clear the Darrys support the Targs.   Willem has a near legendary affiliation with Dany and Viserys at least.   I think of him in the same vein as AD, OW & GH at the TOJ.   Willem is there to protect the king.  Willem isn't likely to have known about Jon or Lyanna.  I believe it's Illyrio who tells Dany about the Targ supporters in Westeros as they travel to meet Drogo.   He lists Tyrrel, Redwyn, Darry and Greyjoy.   He or Viserys mentions Darry women sew Targ banners to pull out when Viserys makes his bid for Westeros.  

The conversation between Cersei and Ned is so interesting because as you say, Selmy tells us specifically that Ashara had a daughter.   Way too many babies popping up at the time if you ask me.   Cersei and Cat or Robert or Selmy is wrong here.   This says to me no one actually saw Ashara's child.   Not these folks, at any rate.   Oh the intrigue here! 

Rhaella had 7 children or was it 8?  Half of them miscarried, died young or were stillborn.   I'm not sure how to rate Viserys, but he did survive.   I like Dany as a child of Rhaella and Areys because of the symmetry with Jon.   Either way, I look forward to hearing the marriage contract again and all the wonders of our tale.   

[The Commentator]

14 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Widowmaker 811, welcome.  That's it?   It was Yoren?  Unwashed and all?  

The time fits.  Y has been the "recruiter" for decades.  He would have been the recruiter during the time of the great tourney. 

[LynnS]

16 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I do enjoy the last hearth, but I haven't visited in a while.   Thanks for reminding me of good reading.   As you know I'm listening to AGOT again.   It's clear the Darrys support the Targs.   Willem has a near legendary affiliation with Dany and Viserys at least.   I think of him in the same vein as AD, OW & GH at the TOJ.   Willem is there to protect the king.  Willem isn't likely to have known about Jon or Lyanna.  I believe it's Illyrio who tells Dany about the Targ supporters in Westeros as they travel to meet Drogo.   He lists Tyrrel, Redwyn, Darry and Greyjoy.   He or Viserys mentions Darry women sew Targ banners to pull out when Viserys makes his bid for Westeros.  

The conversation between Cersei and Ned is so interesting because as you say, Selmy tells us specifically that Ashara had a daughter.   Way too many babies popping up at the time if you ask me.   Cersei and Cat or Robert or Selmy is wrong here.   This says to me no one actually saw Ashara's child.   Not these folks, at any rate.   Oh the intrigue here! 

Rhaella had 7 children or was it 8?  Half of them miscarried, died young or were stillborn.   I'm not sure how to rate Viserys, but he did survive.   I like Dany as a child of Rhaella and Areys because of the symmetry with Jon.   Either way, I look forward to hearing the marriage contract again and all the wonders of our tale.   

I think Jaime's meeting with Rhaegar before he sets off the Trident most interesting.  Rhaegar is expecting to defeat Robert and has made plans for what transpires afterwards.  He doesn't think he will lose and I wonder why.  Was he given assurances of support? Or promised reinforcements that never show up?  I think he was betrayed.  Were the KG waiting on the border of Dorne for forces to lead?

[Curled Finger]

24 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The time fits.  Y has been the "recruiter" for decades.  He would have been the recruiter during the time of the great tourney. 

Fair enough.  Yoren it is.   

[Ser Leftwich]

Speculation about what happened off-page is only minimally useful, in that it is purely speculation. Just because we don't hear that Ned and Robert interacted in a third-hand story doesn't mean they didn't. It is not even necessarily what Howland found to be important. It is what Jojen and Meera tells in their version of Howland's story.

However, inferences about Howland relationship with the Stark's can be made from taking note about who listens to Howland and who helps him and who doesn't.

Lyanna recognizes him or notes he is a Reed and helps him.

Ned offers him hospitality and a place to sleep.

Benjen gets him suitable garb to attend the high table and offers to help him find armor.

What about Brandon? He is the primary representative of the North here. Do his siblings bring Howland to him? Does he offer to help? Does he do anything to honor this son of a bannerman? Does he chastise the squires or their knights? No, he does nothing. This is insight into Brandon's character: he doesn't care. And his siblings know that he wouldn't care about Howland. This says a lot about Brandon.

[Curled Finger]

12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I think Jaime's meeting with Rhaegar before he sets off the Trident most interesting.  Rhaegar is expecting to defeat Robert and has made plans for what transpires afterwards.  He doesn't think he will lose and I wonder why.  Was he given assurances of support? Or promised reinforcements that never show up?  I think he was betrayed.  Were the KG waiting on the border of Dorne for forces to lead?

I recall something about Dorne only sending 10,000 to aid Rhaegar and I think that was only because Aerys held Elia and her children hostage against Dorne's support.   But yes, the comments to Jamie do lead one to believe Rhaegar was confident and assured of his win.   In this there are many questions.   Did Rhaegar try to make a peace with Robert prior to the Trident?   Rhaegar split the Kings Guard up--Darry with his Queen mother and Prince Viserys, Dayne, Whent and Hightower with Lyanna.   We know Lewyn Martell, Jonathor Darry and Richard Lonsmouth (squire) were with Rhaegar at the Trident.  Jamie was left with Aerys and what a mistake that was.  You know, Lady, this is the first time I realized there were 2 Darrys in the KG.   Interesting.   

It's clear Dorne was holding back, but I do think you're right and there was some other force pledged to Rhaegar.   Did he expect Tywin would help?   Did Tywin pull a Late Walder Frey or both ends against the middle?  Ned is bitter about Tywin not showing up until "the war was decided"" or won--something to that meaning.   Very interesting.   Let me add some spice here.  Illyrio mentions the Greyjoys of all people, as loyalists.   What could have been up with that?  

[Alexis-something-Rose]

6 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Speculation about what happened off-page is only minimally useful, in that it is purely speculation. Just because we don't hear that Ned and Robert interacted in a third-hand story doesn't mean they didn't. It is not even necessarily what Howland found to be important. It is what Jojen and Meera tells in their version of Howland's story.

However, inferences about Howland relationship with the Stark's can be made from taking note about who listens to Howland and who helps him and who doesn't.

Lyanna recognizes him or notes he is a Reed and helps him.

Ned offers him hospitality and a place to sleep.

Benjen gets him suitable garb to attend the high table and offers to help him find armor.

What about Brandon? He is the primary representative of the North here. Do his siblings bring Howland to him? Does he offer to help? Does he do anything to honor this son of a bannerman? Does he chastise the squires or their knights? No, he does nothing. This is insight into Brandon's character: he doesn't care. And his siblings know that he wouldn't care about Howland. This says a lot about Brandon.

Many thumbs up on this.

[Curled Finger]

2 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Speculation about what happened off-page is only minimally useful, in that it is purely speculation. Just because we don't hear that Ned and Robert interacted in a third-hand story doesn't mean they didn't. It is not even necessarily what Howland found to be important. It is what Jojen and Meera tells in their version of Howland's story.

However, inferences about Howland relationship with the Stark's can be made from taking note about who listens to Howland and who helps him and who doesn't.

Lyanna recognizes him or notes he is a Reed and helps him.

Ned offers him hospitality and a place to sleep.

Benjen gets him suitable garb to attend the high table and offers to help him find armor.

What about Brandon? He is the primary representative of the North here. Do his siblings bring Howland to him? Does he offer to help? Does he do anything to honor this son of a bannerman? Does he chastise the squires or their knights? No, he does nothing. This is insight into Brandon's character: he doesn't care. And his siblings know that he wouldn't care about Howland. This says a lot about Brandon.

Great points, Ser.   It is difficult for me to separate the story from the teller, so your caution is well advised.  Regarding Brandon...do you recall when the bout is won and the mystery knight tells the knights in a "BOOMING" voice to teach their squires to straighten out and act right?  Could a little girl really be said to have a booming voice?   

I have suspected the ransom meeting was someone standing in for the KotLT to invoke such a powerful voice.  I can't suspect who it was, but I doubt it was Lyanna.   The KotLT may have been its own little mini conspiracy.  

My head is spinning with the Brandon speculation.   I'm reading everything and taking it all in.   Very much enjoying your thoughts here, Ser.  Thank you for really joining us.  

[Megorova]

18 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Megorova, I'm getting a little distressed at your nitpicking my distances in miles:leagues.  I'm trying to follow the suggestions of several posters of more than a single topic.   It may surprise you to know that I am hosting another topic that was active this weekend. If I've miscalculated fine, everyone is entitled to an honest mistake and correction.  195 miles is about 65 leagues.   I found the nearest location on the map that fit the criteria being discussed at the time.  How about you make your suggestions without all the patronizing lessons?  

Where did you saw patronizing lessons in my posts?  You misunderstood my intentions, I was just trying to be helpful, because you were searching in the wrong radius.

[divica]

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Great points, Ser.   It is difficult for me to separate the story from the teller, so your caution is well advised.  Regarding Brandon...do you recall when the bout is won and the mystery knight tells the knights in a "BOOMING" voice to teach their squires to straighten out and act right?  Could a little girl really be said to have a booming voice?   

I have suspected the ransom meeting was someone standing in for the KotLT to invoke such a powerful voice.  I can't suspect who it was, but I doubt it was Lyanna.   The KotLT may have been its own little mini conspiracy.  

I don t think a person participating in the tourney wuld have the time to be the KotLT. And brandon was one of the first to fight rhaegar.

[Megorova]

11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

The only part i was wrong about was F/Aegon. I started to think he was the right Aegon based on the clues in the Three heads and the roles each plays. Untill i realized they were facing another triple sibling group, Cersei, Jamie, and Tryion. Tyrion who is fire and Ice like Aegon, and are switching sides in the war. So F/aegon is a proxy stand in for the real Aegon of Fire, but since he switches to the side of Ice anyways, its all ok.

How about this three siblings: Dany, Rhaego and Jon?

Clues that may be indicating, that they are three heads of the dragon:

AGOT, chapters of Daenerys, where dragons or eggs are mentioned/present

Quote

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. “Khaleesi,” Jhiqui said, “what is wrong? Are you sick?”

“I was,” she answered, standing over the dragon’s eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shell. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers…or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.

Quote

Dany gave the silver over to the slaves for grooming and entered her tent. It was cool and dim beneath the silk. As she let the door flap close behind her, Dany saw a finger of dusty red light reach out to touch her dragon’s eggs across the tent. For an instant a thousand droplets of scarlet flame swam before her eyes. She blinked, and they were gone.

Stone, she told herself. They are only stone, even Illyrio said so, the dragons are all dead. She put her palm against the black egg, fingers spread gently across the curve of the shell. The stone was warm. Almost hot. “The sun,” Dany whispered. “The sun warmed them as they rode.”

Quote

“I’m not hungry,” Dany said sadly. She was suddenly very tired. “Share the food among yourselves, and send some to Ser Jorah, if you would.” After a moment she added, “Please, bring me one of the dragon’s eggs.”

Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her…as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. “You are the dragon,” Dany whispered to him, “the true dragon. I know it. I know it.” And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.

Quote

“Bring me…egg…dragon’s egg…please…” Her lashes turned to lead, and she was too weary to hold them up.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragon’s egg. It was the pale one, its scales the color of butter cream, veined with whorls of gold and bronze, and Dany could feel the heat of it. Beneath her bedsilks, a fine sheen of perspiration covered her bare skin. Dragondew, she thought. Her fingers trailed lightly across the surface of the shell, tracing the wisps of gold, and deep in the stone she felt something twist and stretch in response. It did not frighten her. All her fear was gone, burned away.

Quote

She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs.

First dragon egg that became alive - black and scarlet. Black dragon came to Dany in her dream, and from then on black egg became hot. She placed black egg near Drogo's heart, and later black dragon that hatched from it, she named Drogon. She bonded with this dragon, and eventually became his rider.

Second egg that became alive - green with bronze. The child in her belly reacted to that egg. They bonded (Rhaego and Rhaegel). Dany placed that egg near Drogo's head, and coiled his braid around it - probably there's some sort of symbolism in this gesture, some sort of connection between Drogo never being defeated, his braid never being cut, and his son being prophesied to become the stallion who mounts the world. She named green and bronze dragon Rhaegel, same as her son Rhaego, in honor of her brother Rhaegar.

Third egg became alive after Dany lost her family (Drogo became catatonic, and Rhaego was kidnapped <- it's my theory, not a fact) - white, gold and bronze. She placed this egg between Drogo's legs. This dragon she named Viserion, in honor of her brother Viserys, who thought that he was rightful King of 7K, and last Targaryen dragon. Combination of egg's coloring, dragon's name, and egg's placement in funeral pyre, indicate that third dragonrider will be of First Men origin (bronze), real rightful King of 7K (gold), and Snow (white), and he will also become Dany's lover or husband (because that egg was placed between Drogo's legs). Thus third head of the dragon is Jon Snow, who is actually son of Rhaegar Targaryen.

Dany, Rhaego and Jon are three heads of the dragon.

[Faera]

5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Great points, Ser.   It is difficult for me to separate the story from the teller, so your caution is well advised.  Regarding Brandon...do you recall when the bout is won and the mystery knight tells the knights in a "BOOMING" voice to teach their squires to straighten out and act right?  Could a little girl really be said to have a booming voice?   

 

Sorry to jump in but... the whole thing with "separat[ing] the story from the teller" made me think of the teller again.

It is Meera, recounting a story her father told her.

This might be completely off the wall thought but, if Lyanna really was the KotLT, how fitting is it that a female is telling the story. Looking at the passage here:
 

Quote

It was the little crannogman, I bet."
"No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face." Bran II, ASOS

So, we know whoever was in the armour - whether they were the one riding the horse or there was a body-double trick like in that episode of Merlin - they were "short of stature" and in "ill-fitting armour". We know Benjen was going to go scrounge together some armour for Howland, and either Lyanna or Howland himself would probably be quite small. Maybe they were both the KotLT at different points? They could conceivably be of about the same height since crannogmen are a finely built people.

But, to my point, the only bit of proper dialogue in Meera's whole tale that is in italics (to emphasise the booming, I'm sure) is this:

Quote

"...When his fallen foes sought to ransom horse and armor, the Knight of the Laughing Tree spoke in a booming voice through his helm, saying, 'Teach your squires honor, that shall be ransom enough.' Once the defeated knights chastised their squires sharply, their horses and armor were returned..." - Bran II, ASOS

 

The italics seem to be there to indicate to us, the reader, that Meera might well be doing a "booming" voice herself. Y'know, that small, petite girl (or one might say a "child-woman", who is quite Lyanna-que in her own way) doing a booming voice. How wonderfully fitting!

[Megorova]

6 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

The Storm Lord is mentioned 1st with the Rose Lord then we are given specific mention of the wine cup war with Richard Lonmouth.   This is just so curious.   @LynnS and @AlaskanSandman have had the most interesting conversation from many sides of the possibilities here.   For all it's worth the 1st mention may just be to show The Storm Lord's importance in conjunction with the Rose Lord.   Then we see he's a drunk with his bannerman and his cousin, Rhaegar's, squire.   We don't see Robert with Ned or Rhaegar.  It's a very curious set up.

Could be that Robert and Richard were just an old drinking buddies.

And Ned and Rhaegar weren't with them because, unlike Robert, they weren't drunkards, and didn't frequented brothels. So to sit in their company, for Robert and Richard would have been boring. Because Ned would have started his preaching to Robert, that he shouldn't behave like that, and that he should think more about Lyanna, and his public image, and so on. And Richard would be uncomfortable to get drunk in presense of his Prince.

So probably there was no any conspiracies in their sitting arrangements. They divided into groups by interests - those that like to drink and have fun all night, and those who are boring and plan to go to sleep early.

[Curled Finger]

38 minutes ago, Faera said:

Sorry to jump in but... the whole thing with "separat[ing] the story from the teller" made me think of the teller again.

It is Meera, recounting a story her father told her.

This might be completely off the wall thought but, if Lyanna really was the KotLT, how fitting is it that a female is telling the story. Looking at the passage here:
 

So, we know whoever was in the armour - whether they were the one riding the horse or there was a body-double trick like in that episode of Merlin - they were "short of stature" and in "ill-fitting armour". We know Benjen was going to go scrounge together some armour for Howland, and either Lyanna or Howland himself would probably be quite small. Maybe they were both the KotLT at different points? They could conceivably be of about the same height since crannogmen are a finely built people.

But, to my point, the only bit of proper dialogue in Meera's whole tale that is in italics (to emphasise the booming, I'm sure) is this:

The italics seem to be there to indicate to us, the reader, that Meera might well be doing a "booming" voice herself. Y'know, that small, petite girl (or one might say a "child-woman", who is quite Lyanna-que in her own way) doing a booming voice. How wonderfully fitting!

It is fitting.   I sure wish we had the whole story--not bits and pieces from other POVs.  I think we have some places to go with the little we do have, but it's so interesting the way so many here are able to separate the story from the little Crannogman in Meera.   I do wonder if we will ever got more--it's probably too much to hope that Bran will see the events.