Unpopular Opinions?

[Amris]

On 9.1.2018 at 9:37 PM, divica said:

That is one of the things I will never understand. How can someone think he will finish the book in 2 months and 2 years and a half later there is still no book.

[snip]

That is actually easy

It can happen when you have a complicated story with many interconnected plotlines which is only mapped out in broad strokes but not in detail when you start to write. Since you only create the details when writing you may suddenly - even when you think you are nearly done - hit a wall and notice some of those details collide or don't add up. And as a result you end up having to rewrite big chunks of the book.

 

 

[Leo of House Cartel]

I think the "Wyvern + FireWyrm = Dragons" stuff is bullshit.

 

 

 

[Pride of Driftmark]

I love the idea that all the prophecies are false. They guide character actions, but don't actually mean anything. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:42 PM, Fishb20 said:

1) North

2) Iron Islands

3) Riverlands - Not a kingdom during Aegon’s Conquest, it was ruled by Harren the Black.

4) Vale

5) Crownlands - Never a Kingdom

6) The Reach

7) Stormlands

8) Westerlands

9) Dorne

It’s the Seven Kingdoms because there were seven kingdoms when Aegon invaded... I always preferred the Sunset Kingdoms anyway.

Dorne lasted longest, but then there was only one kingdom. The Crownlands have never been a kingdom... Dragonstone may once have been a kingdom, we don’t really know if they called themselves kings. The only families still around are the Arryns, Martels, and Starks who were royal families when Aegon invaded and back into the mists of time beforehand.  The Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men

But on to unpopular theories:

Bloodraven isn’t the three eyed crow, he plans to take Bran’s body.

The House of the Undying is the Essos version of a Children of the Forrest (Servitors) hideaway surrounded by black weirwoods. 

Varys is or was a Faceless Man (he might have been trained and then left, as I expect Arya will)

Illyrio is passing as Sallador Saan, his love Serra was Serra Saan, heir to the last Valyrian.  

R+L=J+D, Dany has been looking for a family to love all her life, not a husband. She needs a pack to fend off that cold behind her she is so scared of.

The Starks were involved with the fall of Valyria and founding of Braavos.

Sansa will not be redeemed, she is her generation’s parallel to Cersei.

Timmet son of Timmet is rightful heir to the Vale. 

Craster was Aemon’s son.

Joramun was/is king of the Others.

Mance sent the assassin to kill Bran.

The Night’s Watch didn’t win a war against the Other’s, the last hero negotiated a peace. Possibly including a wedding and a wall.

[goldenmaps]

Just now, Pride of Driftmark said:

I love the idea that all the prophecies are false. They guide character actions, but don't actually mean anything. 

I love this idea too. 

Also, I don't hate Cat.  I can see where she is coming from.  I hate the way she treats Jon, but I can see her point of view.  She sees him as a threat to her children.  She has no control over it.  She should blame Ned, and not Jon.  She didn't handle it well.  She is all about her family, even if she makes bad decisions that might hurt her family in the long run. 

I don't like Lyanna.  If she did run off with Rhaegar, she did it for selfish reasons.  I know she is Ned's sister but she didn't think about the consequences of her actions or what it will do to her family.  She didn't think what her actions would do to Elia and her children (who are innocent). 

I don't like discussions that compare either Sansa or Arya to Lyanna, because I believe that Sansa and Arya are better than Lyanna.  I don't think either would run off like Lyanna did.  They both just want to be safe and go home.  They both have to hide their identities because it was not safe to reveal who they are.  Lyanna has a loving family and a safe home and went into hiding.  I think that in different ways, Arya and Sansa are like their mother.  It would make sense that they would take after their parents instead of an aunt who died before they were born. 

 

 

 

[Dofs]

I don't like when artists draw ASOIAF art while taking inspiration from the show (like using the faces of the actors). 

[Yukle]

On 1/9/2018 at 2:03 PM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I'm sorry, but there are 9 kingdoms? Who are the other two?

The Seven Kingdoms at the time of Aegon's Conquest:

1) The Kingdom of the North

2) The Kingdom of the Westerlands

3) The Kingdom of the Reach

4) The Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers

5) The Kingdom of the Vale

6) The The Kingdom of the Stormlands

7) The Principality of Dorne

8) The Colony of Dragonstone

See a problem?  That's really only 6 kingdoms, as only six have monarchs, or 8, since Dragonstone includes part of Westeros' peninsulas. It mentions in The World of Ice and Fire that "Seven Kingdoms" is a traditional name and for most of its history the number was different. Seven is the name because of the influence of the Faith of the Seven.

The Seven "Kingdoms" after the Conquest of Dorne:

1) The North

2) The Westerlands

3) The Reach

4) The Riverlands

5) The Vale

6) The Stormlands

7) Dorne

8) The Crownlands

9) The Iron Islands

[Lady Anna]

Catelyn really is the most underrated character.

[Pride of Driftmark]

29 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Catelyn really is the most underrated character.

I love Cat too! I'm really unsure why, she just sort of appeals to me in a way. She is one of the most "human" characters, and her arc is so fascinating- the desire for vengeance just breeds more vengeance- Stoneheart is the end product of this. 

[goldenmaps]

8 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Catelyn really is the most underrated character.

I think she is.  She is important to Arya, Sansa, and Bran.  Jon has complicated feelings for her (she was cold to him and he wanted her to love him, and she is the mother of his siblings who he loves.  They both love the same people). 

[bent branch]

3 hours ago, Yukle said:

Seven is the name because of the influence of the Faith of the Seven.

This is totally the answer. I don't know why I didn't see it before. Thanks for pointing that out.

[bent branch]

I don't like talking about characters very much because I see most of them as (1) individuals, not extensions of their families and (2) having both good and bad qualities. One time I tried saying something nice about Stannis in a Stannis admiration thread and was jumped on because I didn't say enough nice things ! Trying to discuss the characters in a nuanced fashion just leads to trouble.

[Kandrax]

I don't like calling it "Red Wedding 2.0", i more prefer to call it "The Stone Trials".

[SirArthur]

13 hours ago, Yukle said:

The Seven Kingdoms at the time of Aegon's Conquest:

1) The Kingdom of the North

2) The Kingdom of the Westerlands

3) The Kingdom of the Reach

4) The Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers

5) The Kingdom of the Vale

6) The The Kingdom of the Stormlands

7) The Principality of Dorne

8) The Colony of Dragonstone

It's Kingdom of Mountain and Vale. And in my interpretation it's a double Kingdom. So we have

-North

-Westerlands

-Reach

-(Iron)Isles

-Rivers/Riverlands

-Vale

-Mountain

-Stormlands

-Dorne

9 Kingdoms. And if you doubt it look at the Andals in the Vale and Tyrion's mountain friends. That is my unpopular opinion.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

17 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Catelyn really is the most underrated character.

Catelyn is really the most underrated villain of the series.

Also, it’s almost impressive how she’s so reliably wrong about almost everything, while simultaneously blaming everyone but herself.

She treats Jon, an innocent, terribly for no fault of his own.

She gives into despair after Bran’s fall, leaving all her responsibilities unfulfilled and abandons Winterfell after the assasination attempt.

She dooms Ned by convincing him to trust Littlefinger.

She starts the War of Five Kings by kidnapping Tyrion.

She commits treason releasing Jaime, doing great harm to her son’s cause.

She kills an innocent fool, in an act of misguided vengeance. The sad little bells.

I think her reappearance under the name Stoneheart will see her embracing the role of a villain. Of course, her angry lynching spree, like so many of her choices, is misguided both in that her kids aren’t all dead and the targets she’s murdering appear arbitrary.

Quote

Ned always said that the man who passes the sentence should swing the blade, though he never took any joy in the duty. But I would, oh, yes.

But it says wonderful things about the writing that people can have such differing opinions on a single character!

[The Wolves]

14 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Catelyn really is the most underrated character.

Besides Tyrion she’s also the smartest(that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t sometimes make stupid decisions)

[Seams]

1) Illyrio Mopatis is Arthur Dayne.

2) Old Nan is a Faceless Man and was supposed to kill Bran. The catspaw was just delivering the knife to the real killer. ("No one was supposed to be here.")

3) Petyr Baelish has hatched some dragon eggs. He may be a Velaryon descendant.

4) Sweetrobin will end up on the Iron Throne at the end of the series.

5) Doran Martell is as big a player as Bloodraven, manipulating people from a distance.

6) Joffrey was Azor Ahai reborn.

[mormont]

[mod] Two things that should not be discussed further in this thread: future book releases and the show. Stick to opinions about the books that have been released, please. [/mod]

[Mladen]

6 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Catelyn is really the most underrated villain of the series.

Also, it’s almost impressive how she’s so reliably wrong about almost everything, while simultaneously blaming everyone but herself.

I sincerely that anyone who has read the books can claim that Catelyn is a villain. I don't think that is how Martin wanted us to read her, nor do I think that her mistakes can make her a villain.

That said, Catelyn makes mistakes. She is not stupid, but every time she makes a mistake, the mistake has the worst possible outcome. And it is not like her mistakes are inconsequential. She has the worst luck of all ASOIAF characters.

Furthermore, Catelyn neither started the War of 5 Kings, nor is she to blame for Robb's fate. Tywin was already preparing for the War and we are yet to discover what games were being played in KL before Ned arrived. As for Jaime, the Boltons/Frey treason was already set in motion so, even with alienation of Karstarks, I don't see how she hurt his cause.

Truth be told, Catelyn is one of the most misunderstood character in the series.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

3 minutes ago, Risto said:

I sincerely that anyone who has read the books can claim that Catelyn is a villain. I don't think that is how Martin wanted us to read her, nor do I think that her mistakes can make her a villain.

That said, Catelyn makes mistakes. She is not stupid, but every time she makes a mistake, the mistake has the worst possible outcome. And it is not like her mistakes are inconsequential. She has the worst luck of all ASOIAF characters.

Furthermore, Catelyn neither started the War of 5 Kings, nor is she to blame for Robb's fate. Tywin was already preparing for the War and we are yet to discover what games were being played in KL before Ned arrived. As for Jaime, the Boltons/Frey treason was already set in motion so, even with alienation of Karstarks, I don't see how she hurt his cause.

Truth be told, Catelyn is one of the most misunderstood character in the series.

I would agree with most of this, I just think it could be said of most of the villains in the series. They are misunderstood and they make mistakes. Which is frankly good writing. 

I didn’t say she was malicious, she’s didn’t push her friend down a well as a kid, nor is she a total psychopath as Euron appears to be. But we’ve spent a lot of time in her head, and there is no denying the tradgedies which befall her and her family, these things make her sympathetic. 

But the line between victim and villain can be blurry at best, and oftentimes a character is both. I’d argue her evil actions, no matter how well intended, have a significant impact on the plot of the story.