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Why we Dance to Rhaenyra and Daemon Stark (updated)


AlaskanSandman

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   Rhaenyra Targaryen and Daemon Targaryen of House Stark

 

(Updated)

 

 

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A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VIII

Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sand silk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames.
 
 
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"Nobody is a villain in their own story. We're all the heroes of our own stories. "

George R. R. Martin
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_r_r_martin_575871

 

Rhaenyra and Daemon Targaryen who's children took over House Targaryen and ended the dragons, and opposed House Blackfyre that sought to restore the dragons by the blood of Daena defiant, and Aegon II. So this will be a look through the subtle clues that point to all of this starting with Bloodraven, let's begin.

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A Clash of Kings - Jon III 

"Now, that is the question. How many wildlings are there? How many men of fighting age? No one knows with certainty. The Frostfangs are cruel, inhospitable, a wilderness of stone and ice. They will not long sustain any great number of people. I can see only one purpose in this gathering. Mance Rayder means to strike south, into the Seven Kingdoms."

"Wildlings have invaded the realm before." Jon had heard the tales from Old Nan and Maester Luwin both, back at Winterfell. "Raymun Redbeard led them south in the time of my grandfather's grandfather, and before him there was a king named Bael the Bard." 

"Aye, and long before them came the Horned Lord and the brother kings Gendel and Gorne, and in ancient days Joramun, who blew the Horn of Winter and woke giants from the earth. Each man of them broke his strength on the Wall, or was broken by the power of Winterfell on the far side . . . but the Night's Watch is only a shadow of what we were, and who remains to oppose the wildlings besides us? The Lord of Winterfell is dead, and his heir has marched South 

Aegon the V who banished Bloodraven? and is tied to this whole set up as he is the 13th l.c. who served for 13 years.

Or Willam Stark? The Stark Lord at the time of Bloodraven?

298th- Jon Snow         299-300ac     1yr

297th- Jeor Mormont   288-299ac     11 yrs

996th- Qorgyle            252-288ac      36 yrs  (Person of interest under the time of Roberts Rebellion and service of Mance.)

995th- Bloodraven      239-252ac       13 years...... wait a min.

994th- Sleepy Jack     226-239ac became known as from Jack Musgood after Raymund Redbeard King beyond the Wall snuck south

 

What is 9 + 9 - 5? 13

 I find it interesting that Bran mentions this story too just before passing beyond the Black Gate and possibly meeting the Night's King. The Last Greenseerer.

 

Another interesting thing.

1. Aegon I   

2 Aenys I

3 Maegor I

4 Jaehaerys I & Alysanne 1  who closed Night fort and changed watch                          1. Aegon

5 Viserys I                         2                                                                                              2. Maegor I, Aenys I

6 Aegon II                         3                                                                                               3 Jaehaerys I

7 Aegon III                        4                                                                                               4. Generation skipped over

8 Daeron I                         5                                                                                               4 Viserys I 

9 Baelor I                          6                                                                                               6 Aegon II

10 Viserys II                     7                                                                                               7 Viserys II, Aegon III

11 Aegon IV                     8                                                                                                8 Aegon IV Baelor I Daeron I

12 Daeron II                     9                                                                                                9 Daeron II

13 Aerys I                        10                                                                                              10 Aerys I, Maekar I

14 Maekar I                      11                                                                                              11 Aegon V

15 Aegon V                      12                                                                                               12 Jaeharerys

16 Jaehaerys II                13   The 2nd who wed his kids on word of woods witch            13. Aerys II

17 Aerys II   

 

So 13th generation Lord Commander was Bloodraven who served for 13 years with it pointing to Aegon I and Jaehaerys I time, Jaehaerys II and Aerys II, and also Aegon V.

Was the woods witch who visited Jaehaerys, the child of Leaf? Partner in crime to Bloodraven? Who advised Jaehaerys to wed Aerys II to his wife Rhaella?

 Bloodraven and Sleepy Jack vs Raymund Redbeard King beyond the wall in the time of Aegon V and Lord Willam Stark.

Let us not forget Jon Snow who dies on Jon Ch 13 of ADWD, but moving on.

 

So if you look at what is pointed out about Raymund, and what is pointed out about Bloodraven and Aegon V. That means there is more going on there then we are being told. Bloodraven sent to Wall, becomes L.C. and has war with Raymund Redbeard king beyond the wall. Bloodraven taking over as L.C. of the wall from Sleepy Jack. This, like Jon, is how bloodraven became L.C. While at the same time Shiera Seastar disappears.

With the clues in 13 pointing us to Jaehaerys and Alysanne's time and also Aegon I.

Am i crazy? Well id say Martin is drawing attention to this time on purpose.

 

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A Clash of Kings - Jon VI

Stonesnake gave a snort. "A murderer, robber, and raper, is what you mean."

"That's all in where you're standing too," Ygritte said. "The Stark in Winterfell wanted Bael's head, but never could take him, and the taste o' failure galled him. One day in his bitterness he called Bael a craven who preyed only on the weak. When word o' that got back, Bael vowed to teach the lord a lesson. So he scaled the Wall, skipped down the kingsroad, and walked into Winterfell one winter's night with harp in hand, naming himself Sygerrik of Skagos. Sygerrik means 'deceiver' in the Old Tongue, that the First Men spoke, and the giants still speak."

"North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark's own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he'd made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. 'All I ask is a flower,' Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o' Winterfell.'"

"Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o' the winter roses be plucked for the singer's payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished . . . and so had Lord Brandon's maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain."

Jon had never heard this tale before. "Which Brandon was this supposed to be? Brandon the Builder lived in the Age of Heroes, thousands of years before Bael. There was Brandon the Burner and his father Brandon the Shipwright, but—"

"This was Brandon the Daughterless," Ygritte said sharply. "Would you hear the tale, or no?"

He scowled. "Go on."

"Lord Brandon had no other children. At his behest, the black crows flew forth from their castles in the hundreds, but nowhere could they find any sign o' Baelor this maid. For most a year they searched, till the lord lost heart and took to his bed, and it seemed as though the line o' Starks was at its end. But one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child's cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast."

"Bael had brought her back?"

"No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says . . . though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me."

"It never happened," Jon said.

She shrugged. "Might be it did, might be it didn't. It is a good song, though. My mother used to sing it to me. She was a woman too, Jon Snow. Like yours." She rubbed her throat where his dirk had cut her. "The song ends when they find the babe, but there is a darker end to the story. Thirty years later, when Bael was King-beyond-the-Wall and led the free folk south, it was young Lord Stark who met him at the Frozen Ford . . . and killed him, for Bael would not harm his own son when they met sword to sword."

"So the son slew the father instead," said Jon.

"Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak."

"Your Bael was a liar," he told her, certain now.

 

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As both Brandon and his grandson are given the title "Lord" instead of "King" this seems to indicate that the disappearance of Brandon's daughter took place after the Starks had given up their kingship during Aegon's Conquest.[3] Additionally, the Kingsroad is mentioned, implying it took place during or after the reign of Jaehaerys I Targaryen, during whose reign the Kingsroad was build.[4]

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Viserys I

That measure was not stringent enough, however, and as 128 ended and 129 began, Viserys was growing increasingly ill.

On the third day of the third moon of 129 AC, while entertaining Jaehaerys and Jaehaera from his bed with a tale of their great-great-grandsire and his queen battling giants, mammoths, and wildlings beyond the Wall, the king grew tired. 

 

Why was Jaehaerys I and Alysanne fighting Giants, Mammoths, and Wildlings north of the Wall? With Alysanne giving the Night’s Watch the New Gift, and closing the Night’s Fort? 

 

Could it be possible that Jaehaerys and Alysanne took part in this war with their Dragons?

Which Stark was it and what happened?

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Lords of Winterfell

Though Torrhen Stark had given up the ancient crown of the Kings of Winter, his sons were less glad of the Targaryen yoke, and some among them entertained talk of rebelling, and of raising the Stark banner whether Lord Torrhen consented or not.

We Know who was king around the time of Jaehaery’s death. So Ellard Stark im guessing is the son who was flayed by a Bolton? Or the Stark who took over after that.

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Ellard Stark was a Lord of Winterfell and head of House Stark during the reign of King Jaehaerys I Targaryen.

History

At the Great Council of 101 AC, Ellard supported first Rhaenys Targaryen[3] and then her son, Laenor Velaryon.[1]This may have been because House Stark was angry with King Jaehaerys I Targaryen for earlier transferring the New Gift from northern control to the Night's Watch.[2] Prince Viserys Targaryen, Rhaenys's cousin, was chosen by the assembled lords as the new heir, however.

 

 The Next Stark Lords in the Tree go in chronological order, Benjen, Rickon, and Cregan who fought in the Dance of the Dragons. Which we'll be getting to.

Behind the Scenes

Earlier prints of The World of Ice & Fire state that Lord Ellard Stark was the lord who had been forced to give up the lands that would become known as the New Gift.[2] However, it has been confirmed that this is an error,[4] and that the statement would be replaced by "the Starks were glad" in later prints, leaving it unknown for the time being which Stark had been the lord in question

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys I

"Balerion the Black Dread was two hundred years old when he died during the reign of Jaehaerys the Conciliator.

I wonder if Balerion took part In the Battle. I like to think Aegon and Maegor took their second life in Balerion.

Queen’s Crown-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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All About Birth Crowning - Parents Magazine

https://www.parents.com › ... › Vaginal Birth › All About Birth Crowning
  1.  
"Once you can see the head and it doesn't slip back in, that's crowning,"
 

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jon V

Across the lake, the tower was black again, a dim shape dimly seen. "A queen lived there?" asked Ygritte.

"A queen stayed there for a night." Old Nan had told him the story, but Maester Luwin had confirmed most of it. "Alysanne, the wife of King Jaehaerys the Conciliator. He's called the Old King because he reigned so long, but he was young when he first came to the Iron Throne. In those days, it was his wont to travel all over the realm. When he came to Winterfell, he brought his queen, six dragons, and half his court. The king had matters to discuss with his Warden of the North, and Alysanne grew bored, so she mounted her dragon Silverwing and flew north to see the Wall. This village was one of the places where she stopped. Afterward the smallfolk painted the top of their holdfast to look like the golden crown she'd worn when she spent the night among them."

"I have never seen a dragon."

Could Alysanne have cheated???

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A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind

Came after her for war with the King beyond the Wall?

 

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A Feast for Crows - Jaime IV

"The new High Septon has revived them. He's sent out a call for worthy knights to pledge their lives and swords to the service of the Seven. The Poor Fellows are to be restored as well."

"Why would the Iron Throne allow that?" One of the early Targaryen kings had fought for years to suppress the two military orders, Jaime recalled, though he did not remember which. Maegor, perhaps, or the first Jaehaerys.

 Maegor, Aenys, and Jaehaerys who ended it. Which is interesting to consider also. A religious war in the south with the Warrior’s sons who have been disbanded since then. Which ened possibly around the time of the War at the Wall that Jaehaerys also possibly was involved in.

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A Feast for Crows - Jaime V

And when Aegon died and the lords rose up against his sons, both orders were in the thick of that rebellion. The more pious lords supported them, and many of the smallfolk. King Maegor finally had to put a bounty on them. He paid a dragon for the head of any unrepentant Warrior's Son, and a silver stag for the scalp of a Poor Fellow, if I recall my history. Thousands were slain, but nigh as many still roamed the realm, defiant, until the Iron Throne slew Maegor and King Jaehaerys agreed to pardon all those who would set aside their swords."

 

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A Feast for Crows - Cersei X

The High Sparrow steepled his thin hands. "I have had the selfsame thought, Your Grace. Just as Maegor the Cruel once took the swords from the Faith, so Jaehaerys the Conciliator deprived us of the scales of judgment.

 So the Faith and Jaehaerys were definitely at odds.

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IV

He was less hopeful concerning Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History. Barth had been a blacksmith's son who rose to be King's Hand during the reign of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. His enemies always claimed he was more sorcerer than septon. Baelor the Blessed had ordered all Barth's writings destroyed when he came to the Iron Throne. Ten years ago, Tyrion had read a fragment of Unnatural History that had eluded the Blessed Baelor, but he doubted that any of Barth's work had found its way across the narrow sea. And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel.

 So Sorceror Septon Barth of the Faith, took notes on Dragons, that are now locked away at the citadel.

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A Dance with Dragons - Reek III

. Such was my due. The maesters will tell you that King Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night to appease his shrewish queen, but where the old gods rule, old customs linger. The Umbers keep the first night too, deny it as they may. Certain of the mountain clans as well, and on Skagos … well, only heart trees ever see half of what they do on Skagos.

 And why would Jaehaerys be opposed to Bride Stealing? Because some one slept with his wife. 

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A Storm of Swords - Jon V

"Queen Alysanne, you say?"

"Good Queen Alysanne, they called her later. One of the castles on the Wall was named for her as well. Queensgate. Before her visit they called it Snowgate."

 Who were they? They called her Good Queen Alysanne after. Are they, the Citidel and Septons who have hid this all from the records?

 

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys I

For forty-six years, the Old King and Good Queen Alysanne were wed, and for the most part it was a happy marriage, with children and grandchildren aplenty.
Two estrangements are recorded, but they did not last more than a year or two before the pair resumed their customary friendship. The Second Quarrel, however, is of note, as it was due to Jaehaerys's decision in 92 AC to pass over his granddaughter Rhaenys—the daughter of his deceased eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon—in favor of bestowing Dragonstone and the place of heir apparent on his next eldest son, Baelon the Brave. Alysanne saw no reason why a man should be favored over a woman...and if Jaehaerys thought women of less use, then he would have no need of her. They reconciled in time, but the Old King outlived his beloved queen, and in his last years it was said that the grief of their parting hung over his court like a pall.
 
So what ever that first quarrel was, it happened earlier in their relationship

So Bael likely came south when he was younger, and Alysanne visiting around the same time with Jaehaerys. With Alysanne possibly having a kid with the a Stark son at Queen's crown while Bael was knocking up a Stark daughter in the Crypts. 

Which makes me think of Jon and the Crpyts and the Tower of Joy and Daenerys. Which leads into who are these children? 

 

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PRINCESS GAEL (called the Winter Child)


Simple-minded but sweet, Gael was most beloved of the queen. She disappeared from court in 99 AC, allegedly dying of a summer fever, but in fact she had drowned herself in the Blackwater after having been seduced and abandoned by a traveling singer, leaving her with nothing but a growing belly.

Gael Targaryen BornIn or between 62 AC and 83 AC  

So if that is the case then Alysanne would be 26 (reasonable) around the time of conception/birth. So 30 years later would be the year 92 AC right?

 

Since she was born in 62 ac and died in 99 Ac, she would be 67 at the time of her death and not likely pregnant then. The pregnancy happened earlier.

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92 AC: Choosing of 92 AC: With the death of King Jaehaerys I's eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon, King Jaehaerys needs name a new heir, choosing between Aemon’s only child, Princess Rhaenys, and Jaehaerys's own second son, Prince Baelon. Jaehaerys eventually names Baelon.[24]

 

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys I

For forty-six years, the Old King and Good Queen Alysanne were wed, and for the most part it was a happy marriage, with children and grandchildren aplenty.
Two estrangements are recorded, but they did not last more than a year or two before the pair resumed their customary friendship. The Second Quarrel, however, is of note, as it was due to Jaehaerys's decision in 92 AC to pass over his granddaughter Rhaenys—
The Frozen Ford was the site in the north where, according to song, House Stark met the free folk in battle when they went south of the WallBael the Bard, the King-beyond-the-Wall, met his son, the young Lord Stark, at the Frozen Ford and died there rather than kill his son.
Frozen Ford = Deep Lake?

 

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A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

"This seems an old place," Jojen said as they walked down a gallery where the sunlight fell in dusty shafts through empty windows.
"Twice as old as Castle Black," Bran said, remembering. "It was the first castle on the Wall, and the largest." But it had also been the first abandoned, all the way back in the time of the Old King. Even then it had been three-quarters empty and too costly to maintain. Good Queen Alysanne had suggested that the Watch replace it with a smaller, newer castle at a spot only seven miles east, where the Wall curved along the shore of a beautiful green lake. Deep Lake had been paid for by the queen's jewels and built by the men the Old King had sent north, and the black brothers had abandoned the Nightfort to the rats.
 
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The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Lords of Winterfell

After the Conquest and the unification of the Seven Kingdoms, the Starks became Wardens of the North rather than kings, swearing their fealty to the Iron Throne, yet remained supreme within their own domains in all but name. Though Torrhen Stark had given up the ancient crown of the Kings of Winter, his sons were less glad of the Targaryen yoke, and some among them entertained talk of rebelling, and of raising the Stark banner whether Lord Torrhen consented or not.

Whether anti-Targaryen feelings were made worse by Queen Rhaenys Targaryen's efforts to knit together the new, single realm with marriages between the great houses is left to the reader to consider. That Torrhen Stark's daughter was wed to the young and ill-fated Lord of the Vale is wellknown; it was one of the many peace- binding marriages forged by Rhaenys. But there are letters preserved at the Citadel suggesting that Stark accepted these arrangements only after much protest, and that the bride's brothers refused to attend the wedding entirely.

Later still, it was said that the Starks were bitter at the Old King and Queen Alysanne for having forced them to carve away the New Gift and give it the Night's Watch; this may be one reason for why Lord Ellard Stark sided with Corlys Velaryon and Princess Rhaenys at the Great Council of 101 AC.

So Torrhen had a daughter too, Plus Brandon Snow, the kings bastard half brother. Who like alot of bastard, may have served at the Wall too.

 
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His bastard brother Brandon Snow offered to cross the Trident alone at night, to sneak into the Targaryen camp and assassinate the dragons while they slept. However, instead Torrhen sent Brandon and three maesters across the river to negotiate with Aegon, and the next day knelt and swore fealty.

In the end, Torrhen did send his bastard brother to Aegon's camp, accompanied by three maesters, to treat with Aegon. The entire night, messages went back and forth, and the next morning, Torrhen crossed the Trident, where he knelt and laid his crown at the feet of Aegon I Targaryen, and swore fealty.

 Brandon who offered to go alone and kill the Targaryens, possibly with three weirwood arrows, as Bloodraven uses.

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a driftof dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.

"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

 

Are the visions showing him Bran not just Alysanne (The White haired woman never desribed as old) but also Brandon snow before this readying to kill Aegon and his sisters? 

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

Bran's throat was very dry. He swallowed. "Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He's not dead, he's not, I saw him, he's back at Winterfell, he's still alive."

"No," said Leaf. "He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death."

"I saw him." Bran could feel rough wood pressing against one cheek. "He was cleaning Ice."

"You saw what you wished to seeYour heart yearns for your father and your homeso that is what you saw."

Bran then, is done with the Tree, and goes to lay down and wait for Meera and Jojen. Then something really interesting happens. He begins to time travel through vision,  without the Tree…

. He had hoped that Meera and Jojen would be there, so he could tell them what he had seen, but their snug alcove in the rock was cold and empty. Hodor eased Bran down onto his bed, covered him with furs, and made a fire for them. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees.

Watching the flames, Bran decided he would stay awake till Meera came back. Jojen would be unhappy, he knew, but Meera would be glad for him, He did not remember closing his eyes.

 

… but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his fatherLord Eddard seemed much younger this timeHis hairwas brown, with no hint of grey in it, his head bowed. "… let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them," he prayed, "and let my lady wifefind it in her heart to forgive …"

"Father." Bran's voice was a whisper in the wind, a rustle in the leaves. "Father, it's me. It's Bran. Brandon."

 

Eddard Stark resumed his prayer. Bran felt his eyes fill up with tears. But were they his own tears, or the weirwood's? If I cry, will the tree begin to weep?

The rest of his father's words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on woodEddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun. Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Wait, did Bran just time travel in visions without the Trees????? I should point out that Bran dozes off or goes into a trance while watching the flames, something that Melisandre does. Who even see's Bran in her fires. Could she be seeing him in this moment? Like they were a two way mirror of sorts? Almost like the Glass Candles and how they may possibly work? 

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.
"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.
Did Bran see Good Queen Alysanne already and Brandon Snow?
 
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In 80 AC, Rodrik married Princess Daella Targaryen

 

So now the Stark blood is in House Arryn who is marrying Daella Targaryen. On top of Stark Blood coming into House Targaryen by way of Alysanne and her child Gael the Winter child.

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92 AC: Choosing of 92 AC: With the death of King Jaehaerys I's eldest son and heir, Prince Aemon, King Jaehaerys needs name a new heir, choosing between Aemon’s only child, Princess Rhaenys, and Jaehaerys's own second son, Prince Baelon. Jaehaerys eventually names Baelon

Now why Rhaenys is passed over i dont fully understand, as born in 74ac she isnt one of the missing children that i know of. As Gael the Winter Child as born earlier than that in 62ac which would place the war in 92ac. When the choosing was and when Aemon died. This is key. So maybe Rhaenys is some how Stark also, or it's simply her ties to the Velaryon's and Baratheon's that got her passed over. Some thing is up here though if any one can see it, i can't just yet.

 

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Rhaenyra Targaryen Born In 97 AC

Born in 97 Ac and descended from a Stark in the North. This will be important with who she has kids with later.

 

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Ellard Stark was a Lord of Winterfell and head of House Stark during the reign of King Jaehaerys I Targaryen.

History

At the Great Council of 101 AC, Ellard supported first Rhaenys Targaryen[3] and then her son, Laenor Velaryon.[1]This may have been because House Stark was angry with King Jaehaerys I Targaryen for earlier transferring the New Gift from northern control to the Night's Watch.[2] Prince Viserys Targaryen, Rhaenys's cousin, was chosen by the assembled lords as the new heir, however.

Ellard was their because there was a blood claim to be made through his brothers side who had married into House Arryn and then into House Targaryen. 

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Lords of Winterfell

Later still, it was said that the Starks were bitter at the Old King and Queen Alysanne for having forced them to carve away the New Gift and give it the Night's Watch; this may be one reason for why Lord Ellard Stark sided with Corlys Velaryon and Princess Rhaenys at the Great Council of 101 AC.
We have earlier discussed House Stark's role in the Dance of the Dragons. Let it be added that Lord Cregan Stark reaped many rewards for his loyal support of King Aegon III...even if it was not a royal princess marrying into his family, as had been agreed in the Pact of Ice and Fire made when the doomed prince Jacaerys Velaryon had flown to Winterfell upon his dragon.
Though in these days it is said that Lord Ellard Stark was glad to aid the Night's Watch with the Gift, and took little convincing, the truth is otherwise. Letters from Lord Stark's brother to the Citadel, asking the maesters to provide precedents against the forced donation of property, made it plain that the Starks were not eager to do as King Jaehaerys bid. It may be that the Starks feared that, under the control of the Castle Black, the New Gift would inevitably decline—for the Night's Watch would always look northward and never give much thought to their new tenants to the south. And as it happens, that soon came to pass, and the New Gift is now said to be largely unpopulated thanks to the decline of the Watch and the rising toll taken by raiders from beyond the Wall.
 

Starks want to take over House Targaryen and will, as Cregan will not oppose the new king as it's his blood and what he wants.

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The Dance of the Dragons was a civil war during Targaryen rule of the Seven Kingdoms. A war of succession between Aegon II and his half-sister Rhaenyra over their father Viserys I's throne, the war was fought from 129 AC to 131 AC. It saw the deaths of both rival monarchs, and the crowning of Rhaenyra's son, Aegon III.

Rhaenyra vs Aegon II. Rhaenyra who was the Starks looking to take over vs. Aegon II the true dragons and the true line as went down into House Blackfyre via Daena the Defiant.

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon III

Young King Aegon III. (illustration credit 59) Nowhere in the Seven Kingdoms did the winter matter more than in the North—and the fear of such a winter had driven the Winter Wolves to gather beneath the banner of Lord Roderick Dustin and die fighting for queen Rhaenyra. But behind them came a greater army of childless and homeless men, unwed men, old men, and younger sons, under the banner of Lord Cregan Stark. They had come for a war, for adventure and plunder, and for a glorious death to spare their kin beyond the Neck one more mouth to feed.
The poisoning of King Aegon II had denied them that chance. Lord Stark still marched his army into King's Landing, but to a much different outcome. He had planned to punish Storm's End, Oldtown, and Casterly Rock for having supported the king. But Lord Corlys had already sent envoys to the Rock and Storm's End and Oldtown, suing for peace. For six days, while the court waited for news of Lord Corlys's success or failure and the realm trembled at the thought of more war, Lord Cregan Stark held sway at court. This came to be known as the Hour of the Wolf.
Yet in one thing, Lord Stark would not be dissuaded: the betrayers and poisoners of King Aegon II must pay the price. To kill a cruel and unjust king in lawful battle was one thing. But foul murder, and the use of poison, was a betrayal against the very gods who had anointed him. Cregan had twenty-two men arrested in Aegon III's name—among them Larys Clubfoot and Corlys Velaryon. Cowed, the young Aegon III—who was eleven at the time—agreed to make Lord Stark his Hand.
Lord Corlys was spared a trial by the machinations of Baela and Rhaena Targaryen, who convinced Aegon to issue an edict restoring to him his offices and honors, then by Black Aly Blackwood when she gave Lord Stark her hand in marriage in return for the boon of allowing Aegon's edict to stand.
The day after the executions, Lord Stark resigned as Hand. No man ever held the office so briefly, and few left it as gladly. He returned to the North, leaving many of his fierce Northmen behind in the south. Some wed widows in the riverlands, others sold their swords or swore them in service, and a few turned to banditry. But the Hour of the Wolf was done, and it was time for the regents.
 

But hopefully as you can see here, between Bael and the Starks, the Dance of Dragons was due to their mingling with the Targaryen family, something hidden from us

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In the chapter on Jaehaerys I's reign, it is stated that Jaehaerys became king at the age of 14 in 48 AC and married his sister once he reached his majority two years later, in 50 AC. It is also stated that the marriage lasted 46 years. However, the marriage only ended at Alysanne's death in either 99 AC or 100 AC, forty-nine or fifty years after the wedding. Regardless, the statement of forty-six years is still correct, as the years of the First and Second Quarrel (both having lasted a year or two), are not counted among their "married years".</ref name=lannisterdatesandquarrels> Official explanation will be provided in Fire and Blood.[18]

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Errata_of_The_World_of_Ice_%26_Fire

Interesting, did Jaehaerys and Alysanne divorce? O.o

 
Now the big question is how does the Winter Child fit into this? Who was the traveling singer? another Bael the Bard type figure? And who was their child???
Well the only person born around that time that is even mentioned in the one and only Rogue Prince Daemon Targaryen. 
Who i think was hidden and raised among Jaehaery's third son. As to not draw question to him.

 

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Daemon Targaryen

Prince Daemon in his younger days as commander of the gold cloaks. © Marc Simonetti

    Born In 81 AC[2] Died In 130 AC, at the Gods Eye        

Prince Daemon Targaryen was a member of House Targaryen and the uncle and husband of Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, whose claim he supported in the Dance of the Dragons

Daemon who supported Rhaenyra against Aegon II. Daemon who had kids with Rhaenyra that would become the kings of House Targaryen and win the war. A war that ended with the loss of dragons and dragon riders. Hmmm. I think now we know what the Dance of Dragons was really about
 
And yet Aegon II had a line that lived on through Daena the Defiant, who had Daemon Blackfyre with Aegon IV the unworthy.
Who had given Blackfyre to Daemon and was seen as a symbol that he was Aegon's legit heir as opposed to the children of Naerys and Aemon the Dragon Knight.
I think we know now what the Blackfyre rebellion was really about. Restoring the dragons, to which ol' Bloodraven at top supported House Targaryen against House Blackfyre, the dragons.
hmm.

Key to Tree

I= Descends down to

I-------I = Siblings

=======   = had children with

 

               Hawyn Hardhand

                                  I

                           Halleck Hoare 

                                 I

             I-----------------------------I                                                                    I--------------------I

        Hoare                           Harren the Black     vs  Aegon the     Torrehn Stark   Brandon Snow 

         Lord Commander        Holds the God's Eye     Conqueror              I       seen in vision cutting

            at Nightfort                                                            I                           I      an arrow who offered his

                                                                                           I                           I            bro to kill Aegon I

                                                                                     I-------------I                  I               

                       Warrior’s Sons & Faith of 7 Vs     Aenys       Maegor         I--------------I            I------------I

                             (Harren the Red  Died       Reign 37 AC                       (Sons  Daugher=Ronnel  Jonos

                                  In 37 AC, at near                 - 42 A                         speak of rebellion)       I

                                  the Gods Eye)                         I                                            I                Rodrik===Daella Targ

                                                                                   I                                            I

                                                        I------------------------I                 I----------------------------------I

                                          Jaehaerys      I       Alysanne===Ellard Stark?                 Stark female===Bael

                                             (34-103)       I         (36-99)      I      At council of 101                               I     the Bard   

                       Reign 48 AC - 103 AC      I                           I                                                                 I     -92Ac                          

                                                                  I                          I                                                                  I       Frozen

                       I----------------I-------------------I                         I                                                                  I      Ford

                Baelon=====Alyssa        Daella ===Rodrik        I                                                                 I 

                             I                                          I                      I                                                                 I

       I------------------I                                         I                     I                                                                 I

Daemon     Viserys ============Aemma Aeryn           I                                                                 I     

  Alicent Hightower                 I                                           I                                                                 I   

      I------------------------------------I                                           I                                                                 I

Aegon II   Rhaenyra Targaryen Born In 97 AC                  I                                                                 I

       I                                                                                      I-----------------------------------------------------I

        I                         A Traveling singer ===== Gael The Winter child                   Son who faced Bael== Unknown

       I                                                             I       62 Ac at Queens Crown                 Born in the Crypts  I    Stark

       I                                                             I           -99ac Birthed at 19                                                       I

       I                                                             I                                                                                        House Stark

       I                                    Daemon Targaryen the Rogue Prince                                                   

       I                                    Born in 81ac and died 130 Ac at the God's Eye=====Rhaenyra Targaryen 

       I                                                                                                                       I

       I                                                                                                       I--------------------------I

       I                                                                                               Aegon III                      Viserys II===Larra Rogare

       I                                                                                                                                                      I

       I                                                                                                                            I---------------I------------------I

   Daena the Defiant======================================Aegon IV unworthy  Naerys=====Aemon Dragon

                                                                    I                                                                                           I

                                                      House Blackfyre                                                                   House Targaryen

 

                   Betha Blackwood===== Aegon IV=======Serenei of Lys?========Barbara Bracken

                                                   I                             I                                    I

                                         Bloodraven               Shiera Seastar              BitterSteel

                                                                                                                        I

                                                                                                                  Calla ====Daemon Blackfyre

                                                                                                                               I

                                                                                                                        F/Aegon

 

So not sure who's side Bloodraven is on still but seems like the Ice side. The Stark side.

                                 

                                       I-------------------------------------------------I                                                                

                                Daeron ==Mariah Martell               Daenerys====Maron Martel

                                               I                                                             I

                                         Rhaegar                                                Quentyn

 

So not only is Rhaegar not a dragon, not a fire dragon at least. Quentyn was a fool for not knowing the truth about the lineages and thinking that he could ride a dragon.

 

So no matter who Jon's parents are out of the possibilities, he is of Ice. Not fire. Unless the Starks managed to steel enough Targaryen blood into their own, but i dont see that as House Stark was continued by Bael the Bard and we dont know if Cregan ever got the bride he sought. I would wager not though, unless he chose a bride from Aegon the II's side of the branch.

 

Who ever Daenerys' father is, her mother must indeed be Ashara Dayne of House Dayne, who's own mother may have been a Hightower. The Dayne Heiress who lights the way. Or else i can't see her being of fire and hatching dragons. But we can discuss her more in the next thread :)

 

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The Princess and the Queen

When the last of them was gone, Daemon Targaryen walked the cavernous halls of Harren’s seat alone, with no companion but his dragon. Each night at dusk he slashed the heart tree in the godswood to mark the passing of another day. Thirteen marks can be seen upon that weirwood still; old wounds, deep and dark, yet the lords who have ruled Harrenhal since Daemon’s day say they bleed afresh every spring.
 

 

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The Princess and the Queen

Thus began the Second Battle of Tumbleton.
The dragon was Seasmoke, his rider Ser Addam Velaryon, determined to prove that not all bastards need be turncloaks. How better to do that than by retaking Tumbleton from the Two Betrayers, whose treason had stained him? Singers say Ser Addam had flown from King’s Landing to the Gods Eye, where he landed on the sacred Isle of Faces and took counsel with the Green Men. The scholar must confine himself to known fact, and what we know is that Ser Addam flew far and fast, descending on castles great and small whose lords were loyal to the queen, to piece together an army.
 

For more, an open ended look and question of Daenerys and Jon Snow. Where any and all opinions are welcome :) 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150034-dany-jon-bael-and-a-blue-rose-who/

This is all connected imo. 

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The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night

Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands—

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Age of Heroes

 But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard—an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror—we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted. The septons who first wrote them down took what details suited them and added others, and the singers changed them—sometimes beyond all recognition—for the sake of a warm place in some lord's hall. In such a way does some longdead First Man become a knight who follows the Seven and guards the Targaryen kings thousands of years after he lived (if he ever did). The legion of boys and youths made ignorant of the past history of Westeros by these foolish tales cannot be numbered.

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: The Gardener Kings

In those centuries of trial and tumult, the Reach produced many a fearless warrior. From that day to this, the singers have celebrated the deeds of knights like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Davos the Dragonslayer, Roland of the Horn, and the Knight Without Armor—and the legendary kings who led them, among them Garth V (Hammer of the Dornish), Gwayne I (the Gallant), Gyles I (the Woe), Gareth II (the Grim), Garth VI (the Morningstar), and Gordan I (Grey-Eyes).

So House Gardener were really Valyrians, untill the Andals took over.

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A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I

"When did all this happen?"

"Five hundred years before the Andals. A thousand, if the True History is to be believed. Only no one knows when the Andals crossed the narrow sea. The True History says four thousand years have passed since then, but some maesters claim that it was only two. Past a certain point, all the dates grow hazy and confused, and the clarity of history becomes the fog of legend."

The Crown of Arryn Is forged 1300 years ago and first worn by Ser Artys Arryn.

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A Feast for Crows - Prologue

The Lord's Sept joined in a moment later, then the Seven Shrines from their gardens across the Honeywine, and finally the Starry Sept that had been the seat of the High Septon for a thousand years before Aegon landed at King's Landing. 

So the Starry Sept was built 1300 years ago and by who?

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown

When the Andals came, the Hightowers were amongst the first lords of Westeros to welcome them. "Wars are bad for trade," said Lord Dorian Hightower, when he set aside his wife of twenty years, the mother of his children, to take an Andal princess as his bride. His grandson Lord Damon (the Devout) was the first to accept the Faith. To honor the new gods, he built the first sept in Oldtown and six more elsewhere in his realm. When he died prematurely of a bad belly, Septon Robeson became regent for his newborn son, ruling Oldtown in all but name for the next twenty years and ultimately becoming the first High Septon. The boy he raised and trained, Lord Triston Hightower, raised the Starry Sept in his honor after his passing.

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

The two queens smiled at one another and exchanged courtesies instead. Then Lady Sharra sent for the three crowns (her own regent's coronet, her son's small crown, and the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale that the Arryn kings had worn for a thousand years), and surrendered them to Queen Visenya, along with the swords of her garrison. And it was said afterward that the little king flew thrice about the summit of the Giant's Lance and landed to find himself a little lord. Thus did Visenya Targaryen bring the Vale of Arryn into her brother's realm.

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Vale: House Arryn

The true tale of House Arryn contains neither giants nor griffins nor huge falcons, yet from the day Ser Artys first donned the Falcon Crown to the present, they have rightly held a storied place in the history of the Seven Kingdoms.

So the Falcon Crown was first made 1300 years ago, at the same time that the Andals took Old Town, and was first worn by Ser Artys Arryn. 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

The two queens smiled at one another and exchanged courtesies instead. Then Lady Sharra sent for the three crowns (her own regent's coronet, her son's small crown, and the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale that the Arryn kings had worn for a thousand years), and surrendered them to Queen Visenya, along with the swords of her garrison. And it was said afterward that the little king flew thrice about the summit of the Giant's Lance and landed to find himself a little lord. Thus did Visenya Targaryen bring the Vale of Arryn into her brother's realm.

I bet she wanted those crowns.

 

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Which i find interesting that during Robert's war, kingship was handed to Robert rather than Eddard Stark or Jon Arryn. Cregan Stark walked away from the Throne too. 

Rhaenyra did hold the Throne though for half a year, though the throne had spurned her. 

Im probably crazy though and this is probably crack pot

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I fail to see how and why Gael Targaryen could be a product of Alysanne having an affair with a Stark. We know they had their Second Quarrel in 92AC, which means Gael can't have been conceived during that time.

And if you're suggesting that Daemon Targaryen is actually the son of Gael and the travelling singer, Daemon was born in 81AC and Gael killed herself in 99AC because she was pregnant, which was many years after Daemon was born.

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She didn't kill her self over Daemon, im suggesting her and Barth were murdered. 

Gael being the product of Alysanne has to do with all the other clues tied to Queens Crown, Bael and every thing else. Ill add more to the picture to show why attention is being drawn to this point by martin

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13 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I fail to see how and why Gael Targaryen could be a product of Alysanne having an affair with a Stark. We know they had their Second Quarrel in 92AC, which means Gael can't have been conceived during that time.

And if you're suggesting that Daemon Targaryen is actually the son of Gael and the travelling singer, Daemon was born in 81AC and Gael killed herself in 99AC, because she was pregnant, many years after Daemon was born.

Follow Bloodraven and it leads the attention to Aegon I and Jaehaerys I. Followed by the quote about Jaehaerys fighting giants and mammoths. Followed by clues in Bael's story about the King's road built by Jaehaerys and Lords in Winterfell and it tells you when Bael was. Add in Queen's crown and birthing. And you hopefully begin to see where the bread crumbs are leading. Then follow a little bit of who married who and badda bing.

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6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

This makes little and less sense

Which part? Most of the Bael stuff and Bloodraven stuff i've discussed in other threads. This is a carry forward of those threads and events discussed. This is where all that leads to. An explanation for the Dance of Dragons and the Blackfyre Rebellion. Because House Stark took over House Targaryen.

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13 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

This makes little and less sense

Ill try to restructure it i guess walk every body through every thing again, starting with Bloodraven, going back to Bael, Jaehaerys I, Aegon I and working up to Rhaenyra and Daemon. 

Or you can visit these threads as it's a big subject and i thought tackled in parts. But meh

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150021-bloodraven-nights-king-and-last-hero/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150006-bael-queen-alyssane-updating/

Which then leads to the current thread your in, which then leads into

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150034-dany-jon-bael-and-a-blue-rose-who/

Its just a lot to have to explain at once and people dont like reading stuff that long.

Edit- It leads from Bloodraven 13 to Jon (who dies on Ch 13).  But if you start with Bloodraven you'll see why it goes in this loop of clues and events that lead backward to give answers to the present.

Its almost like the Maze in Westworld, gotta go inward to reach awakening. 

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               Hawyn Hardhand

                                  I

                           Halleck Hoare 

                                 I

             I-----------------------------I                                                                    I--------------------I

        Hoare                           Harren the Black     vs  Aegon the     Torrehn Stark   Brandon Snow 

         Lord Commander        Holds the God's Eye     Conqueror              I       seen in vision cutting

            at Nightfort                                                            I                           I      an arrow who offered his

                                                                                           I                           I            bro to kill Aegon I

                                                                                     I-------------I                  I               

                       Warrior’s Sons & Faith of 7 Vs     Aenys       Maegor         I 

                             (Harren the Red  Died       Reign 37 AC                       (Brandon   

                                  In 37 AC, at near                 - 42 A                         daughterless)        

                                  the Gods Eye)                         I                                I-------------I                I------------I

                                                                                   I     Bael the === Daughter Daughter==Ronnel     Jonos     

                                                                                   I      Bard           I                        I       Who flew   

                                                                                   I -92Ac   Frozen I                        I       Arryn

                                                        I------------------------I     Ford          I                       Rodrik===Daella Targ

                                          Jaehaerys      I       Alysanne===Baels Son===?                     I

                                             (34-103)       I         (36-99)      I                     I                     Aemma Arryn===Viserys    

                       Reign 48 AC - 103 AC      I                           I                     I                                            I     Targ                         

                                                                  I                          I                      I                       Rhaenyra Targaryen

                       I----------------I-------------------I                         I                      I                                               

                Baelon=====Alyssa        Daella ===Rodrik        I          Ellard Stark                           

                             I                                          I                      I           Spoke at council of 101                                                    

       I------------------I                                         I                     I             (House Stark)                                                     

Daemon     Viserys ============Aemma Aeryn           I                       I                                                  

  Alicent Hightower                 I                                           I                       I                                                        

      I------------------------------------I                                           I               Cregan Stark                                                 

Aegon II   Rhaenyra Targaryen Born In 97 AC                  I                                                                 

       I                                                                                      I

        I                         A Traveling singer ===== Gael The Winter child                   

       I                              (Stark?)                 I       62 Ac at Queens Crown                 

       I                                                             I           -99ac Birthed at 19                                                       

       I                                                             I                                                                                        

       I                                    Daemon Targaryen the Rogue Prince                                                   

       I                                    Born in 81ac and died 130 Ac at the God's Eye=====Rhaenyra Targaryen 

       I                                                                                                                       I

       I                                                                                                       I--------------------------I

       I                                                                                               Aegon III                      Viserys II===Larra Rogare

       I                                                                                                                                                      I

       I                                                                                                                            I---------------I------------------I

   Daena the Defiant======================================Aegon IV unworthy  Naerys=====Aemon Dragon

                                                                    I                                                                                           I

                                                      House Blackfyre                                                                   House Targaryen

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17 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I fail to see how and why Gael Targaryen could be a product of Alysanne having an affair with a Stark. We know they had their Second Quarrel in 92AC, which means Gael can't have been conceived during that time.

And if you're suggesting that Daemon Targaryen is actually the son of Gael and the travelling singer, Daemon was born in 81AC and Gael killed herself in 99AC, because she was pregnant, many years after Daemon was born.

She wouldn't have been, she would have been conceived 30 years earlier in 62 AC. The Reason for the First Quarrel.

The 2nd Quarrel was over Jaehaerys' choice in succession. 30 years later after his eldest son likely died at the wall fighting against Bael the Bard in the War on the Wall. 

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18 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I fail to see how and why Gael Targaryen could be a product of Alysanne having an affair with a Stark. We know they had their Second Quarrel in 92AC, which means Gael can't have been conceived during that time.

And if you're suggesting that Daemon Targaryen is actually the son of Gael and the travelling singer, Daemon was born in 81AC and Gael killed herself in 99AC, because she was pregnant, many years after Daemon was born.

Daemon was likely taken in by Jaehaery's Heir to hide and protect the child. Gael was possibly murdered rather than suicide and there is nothing stating for sure that her death and child birth were at the same time. 

It was known though that Gael had a child before her death, this child goes missing from the text and the only person born in those span of years is Daemon the Rogue Prince.  Which would explain alot about him like visiting the God's Eye. Marking 13 in the tree. Something idk if you noticed above, is everywhere leading to these events and people. 

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Makes me wonder what Cregan Starks daughters were up to.

The She Wolves of Winterfell. Sarra, Alys, Raya, and Mariah. 

Alys makes me think of Alys(anne). 

I wonder if any of them hooked up with their half brother, Jonnel One Eye Stark. (Bloodraven and Shiera scenario) 

If the Narrative beats are the same then Beron Stark should be the secret son of Alys and Jonnel or some one? Just a stab in the dark. 

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6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Follow Bloodraven and it leads the attention to Aegon I and Jaehaerys I. Followed by the quote about Jaehaerys fighting giants and mammoths. Followed by clues in Bael's story about the King's road built by Jaehaerys and Lords in Winterfell and it tells you when Bael was. Add in Queen's crown and birthing. And you hopefully begin to see where the bread crumbs are leading. Then follow a little bit of who married who and badda bing.

That was Viserys, Jaehaerys' grandson, telling his own grandchildren a story. You have the wrong information.

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Daemon was likely taken in by Jaehaery's Heir to hide and protect the child. Gael was possibly murdered rather than suicide and there is nothing stating for sure that her death and child birth were at the same time. 

This would have to rely on Alyssa Targaryen, Viserys I's mother and Gael's sister, to also be pregnant at that same time and she and her brother-husband, Baelon, to be willing to help cover up Gael's pregnancy.

Also, Gael was a princess. There is no way a princess can have a child out of wedlock and no one comes to know it. Even in isolation, the information of a pregnancy would've come out. Princess Daena lived in the Maidenvault for almost ten years and even she became pregnant and everyone knew.

2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

It was known though that Gael had a child before her death, this child goes missing from the text and the only person born in those span of years is Daemon the Rogue Prince.  Which would explain alot about him like visiting the God's Eye. Marking 13 in the tree. Something idk if you noticed above, is everywhere leading to these events and people. 

Now you're just straight up lying; Gael disappeared from court in 99AC and was found dead in the Blackwater Rush later that same year. We are very specifically told that she was pregnant.

Why would Gael kill herself a decade after giving birth to the child of this mysterious travelling singer? Unless you're suggesting that she became pregnant a second time, I don't see it.

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41 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

That was Viserys, Jaehaerys' grandson, telling his own grandchildren a story. You have the wrong information.

This would have to rely on Alyssa Targaryen, Viserys I's mother and Gael's sister, to also be pregnant at that same time and she and her brother-husband, Baelon, to be willing to help cover up Gael's pregnancy.

Also, Gael was a princess. There is no way a princess can have a child out of wedlock and no one comes to know it. Even in isolation, the information of a pregnancy would've come out. Princess Daena lived in the Maidenvault for almost ten years and even she became pregnant and everyone knew.

Now you're just straight up lying; Gael disappeared from court in 99AC and was found dead in the Blackwater Rush later that same year. We are very specifically told that she was pregnant.

Why would Gael kill herself a decade after giving birth to the child of this mysterious travelling singer? Unless you're suggesting that she became pregnant a second time, I don't see it.

Yea look that up, that would be Jaehaery the first then doing the fighting

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That measure was not stringent enough, however, and as 128 ended and 129 began, Viserys was growing increasingly ill.

On the third day of the third moon of 129 AC, while entertaining Jaehaerys and Jaehaera from his bed with a tale of their great-great-grandsire and his queen battling giants, mammoths, and wildlings beyond the Wall, the king grew tired. 

 

 

And im sure Gael could have managed something.

Further, are you forgetting that Gael was 66 when died? I doubt she was pregnant when she died lmao but ok im lying. 

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