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Bakker LIII - Sranc and File

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Posted (edited)

Do we have to wait for baby Kelkhus to be able to speak to practice sorcery, or can he devise some kind of double inutteral cants?

ETA: I'm guessing this type of magic hasn't been done yet, or Akka or Serwa could have used it when they were gagged.  But if anyone can do it, Baby Kellhus can.

Crackpot:. Kellhus split his soul into Baby Kel and the demonhead, so the baby needs to be able to perform a self-decapition/demonhead transplant.  The whole next installment plays out like a grim-dark medical drama.

Edited by larrytheimp

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5 hours ago, Rhom said:

With the heart being the seat of the soul... I like where this is going.

You know there's the whole feeling of "this has all happened before" to TUC.  What if... and stay with me here guys... What if Kellhus' soul travels in time, because time isn't linear and stuff, and comes to reside in Serwe's heart which is then (as we all know) hidden in Kellhus' butt on the circumfix.  This allows Kellhus to talk to himself while on the circumfix from his new seat in Serwe's heart placed just anterior to his prior self's rectum.  The voice AK hears starts him on the path that will later send his soul through time and intestines, creating the time loop.

So does this finally confirm that Bakker is actually Chuck Tingle?

Or is it that Chuck Tingle is actually Bakker? The Buttstuff That Comes Before?

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Posted (edited)

@Werthead that history of Earwa is truly exceptional.  Thank you for that.

It got me thinking about Kellhus' overall planning for the Great Ordeal in the 20 years between the two series.  Prior to making his deal with Ajokli, what did he want?  To defeat the Consult?  And then what?  Sadly, I still don't feel like I really know the answer.

Because if Kellhus is going into the probability trance to determine how to defeat the Consult, and he anticipates that the Dunsult will be too strong to defeat singlehandedly, why not prevent the Consult from bringing any Dunyain from Ishual back to Golgotterath?  At that point the Dunyain captives would have no time to study sorcery, so they would be helpless against him, and the rest of the Consult are completely overwhelmed.  A bunch of Sranc and Bashrags with Chorae couldn't even defeat Cleric in TJE, what are they possibly going to do to Kellhus?

Intercepting those Consult parties that contain captives would require some monitoring on his part, but it seems well within his (and his empire's) abilities.  It's not like the Consult would be hiding their Dunyain captives.

Edited by Maithanet

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Posted (edited)

I think the idea is that only ajokli possesses a d blinded kellhus could be so dumb as to not try to destroy the dunyain before the consult get to them.

This is why most of us figured it was kellhus who wasted ishual.

its the holy war conundrum. Moenghus summons kellhus to shimeh not to the holy war. Kellhus seizes the holy war as an opportunity to head to shimeh. Moenghus engineered the destruction of the scylvendi at kiyuth so the plains would be depopulated and kellhus could easily head south without ever crossing into the three seas.

but then they run into serwe and kellhus doesn’t kill cnaiur and instead they go to the three seas.

there kellhus immediately runs into the dead end that the holy war path entails, it inevitably leads to the corcumfix which cannot be surmounted (because kellhus was never meant to take the dead end path). As readers,now we know that kellhus possessed by ajokli in the future must needs also have always already been possessed in the past, so he illogically went on towards the dead end because that’s what ajokli wanted.

Edited by lokisnow

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7 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

This is why most of us figured it was kellhus who wasted ishual.

 

The question (for me anyway) was whether Kellhus could actually raze Ishaul successfully.  He could kill a great many of them, sure, but one man scouring the Thousand Thousand halls for survivors?  Even for Kellhus, that sounds like an exercise in futility.  And could he trust in anyone else to kill any Dunyain they find without being corrupted? 

Quote

As readers,now we know that kellhus possessed by ajokli in the future must needs also have always already been possessed in the past, so he illogically went on towards the dead end because that’s what ajokli wanted.

This is one of the problems of introducing these kinds of causality paradoxes in the narrative.  It makes all speculation pointless and therefore boring.  And I can't disagree with your interpretation, I just hate it. 

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15 hours ago, Ajûrbkli said:

Everything's been done!

IIRC what Bakker found so intriguing about the Baby Kellhus theory is that it somewhat mirrored Alia Atreides.

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I don't think Kellhus had a goal before he was possessed by Ajokli.  Because he we know he hears voices all the way back to swinging from Umiaki back in Caraskand.  Whether or not that's Ajokli, Kellhus admits he's mad to Moe and then tells the same thing to Proyas in TGO immediately before raping him.  

So if we look at the voices and 'phantasms' he mentions as madness, he's insane post WP.  

Maybe his probability trance or TTT simply led him to the Golden Room, with Ajokli, facing Consult top brass.  

I can't remember if we know when Ishual was destroyed, (can probably be answered considering Crabicus' age)... Maybe Kellhus figured the Consult would attack Ishual before he could possibly intervene.  

Even if he teleports there he's abandoning his new empire in a super insecure position.  

? Dunno.  

random question:

Why doesn't the Place called Kellhus use biological warfare?  Golgoterrath broke the WMD rule with the nuke, Kellhus should have had some kind of crazy plague ready to deploy against the sranc - or are they like nonmen and have a crazy good immune system? 

Why not make sranc immortal? 

Or are they?

What's the average sranc life expectancy?

 

 

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3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

What's the average sranc life expectancy?

And how does it compare across demographics?  For example, does the sranc from the depths of Cil-Aujas suffer in comparison to the sranc from across the Yemaleti Mountains?  This might represent a public health disparity worth addressing. 

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On 4/13/2018 at 9:58 AM, Maithanet said:

The question (for me anyway) was whether Kellhus could actually raze Ishaul successfully.  He could kill a great many of them, sure, but one man scouring the Thousand Thousand halls for survivors?  Even for Kellhus, that sounds like an exercise in futility.  And could he trust in anyone else to kill any Dunyain they find without being corrupted? 

Kellhus could easily do it, because he isn't insane like the nonmen, and stupid like the sranc. He wouldn't go mad in the thousand thousand halls, and honestly he wouldn't bother doing that anyway. Hell, he'd just summon a demon or three to go wreck down there, or cause the entire earth to float in the air for thousands of feet and then come down.

They are a bunch of people in an underground cave with no defenses against magic. This isn't hard.

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Don't forget his walk-through-air and ground explodes ability.   That would probably collapse all possible entrances to the Halls beyond excavation capabilities.

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11 minutes ago, Ajûrbkli said:

Don't forget his walk-through-air and ground explodes ability.   That would probably collapse all possible entrances to the Halls beyond excavation capabilities.

Yeah, really. There are absurd amounts of sufficiently awesome-looking magic Kellhus can deploy to wipe out the Dunyain, probably pretty quickly. 

There's one reason that he might not want to, mind you - that the Dunyain somehow, bizzarely, were able to kill a whole lot of the nonmen sorcerers and a lot of sranc, and Kellhus might have calculated that the Dunyain bleeding the resources that could not be replenished easily was worth it. But that seems like a bad calculation compared to the Dunyain actually taking over the Consult and the danger that it could represent; after all, they were able to get a nuke, and only by odd stupidity did they not kill Kellhus.

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Maybe like he semi spared Proyas from death/eternal torture machine, he wanted to spare his remaining monks lives as well. The one that was killed seemed more an act of Ajokli, as the Dunyain monk started to call out Ajokli's shenanigans.

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:56 PM, Darth Richard II said:

Maybe he hid his soul in someone's butt.

You have to admit, after TUC, the heart in the butt theory of the Circumfix is looking more and more likely the right conclusion. 

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12 hours ago, unJon said:

You have to admit, after TUC, the heart in the butt theory of the Circumfix is looking more and more likely the right conclusion. 

Wait... is this butt-heart a legitimate theory or something? I thought Rhom was taking the piss but I seriously just don't know anymore.

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8 hours ago, Durckad said:

Wait... is this butt-heart a legitimate theory or something? I thought Rhom was taking the piss but I seriously just don't know anymore.

There were pages of discussion several threads ago talking about how or where Kellhus was able to hide Serwe’s heart while tied on the circumflex prior to holding it up to the crowd when he was pulled down.  The “heart in butt” theory was prominent at that time... I think it was mostly in jest, but not entirely.

There was even an intriguing video linked of a nude female magician pulling flags and such from somewhere.  Probably the best part of the entire discussion.  

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On 4/13/2018 at 7:18 PM, larrytheimp said:

hy doesn't the Place called Kellhus use biological warfare?  Golgoterrath broke the WMD rule with the nuke, Kellhus should have had some kind of crazy plague ready to deploy against the sranc - or are they like nonmen and have a crazy good immune system? 

Why not make sranc immortal? 

Or are they?

What's the average sranc life expectancy?

I don't think we know, but since the Sranc genome is based off Nonmen and since the Inoculation had to be systematically given to each, I don't think Sranc would be immortal.  However, even before the Inoculation, Nonmen had long lifespans.  So, plausibly Sranc lifespans are probably greater than human ones, although maybe not vastly so.

I think though, because we are presented with Kellhus' "overwhelming" competence is some areas, we are apt of overestimate his capabilities.  I don't really think he'd be able to fashion some biological agent to kill only Sranc, at least not without a huge amount of time and resources that simply wouldn't have really been available.

It would also seem plausible that by the time Kellhus could get back to Ishuäl, it was already under siege by the Consult.  I don't know that he would have been prepared for such a large-scale conflict at that point.  Again, we are apt to overestimate Kellhus' power-level, because it's much higher than anyone else's, but millions of Sranc and thousands of Bashrags, along with a bevy of Nonman sorcerers, could wear him down.  We don't often see it, but Kellhus does have limits.

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