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WinterFox

U.S. Politics: And a Happy "Shithole" Year

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continue, please. 

And sorry Ran, sorry Mods. But I am an American and the American president has made this word a matter of public attention at the moment and I ask that you allow me to have this profane word in the title. 

I understand you have to do your job and I may be flexing a rule when I have specifically made it clear to @Ran that I would go out of my way to avoid upsetting the kingdom he and his loyal lieutenants have built here when he let me back, but I am willing to be banned again over this. 

With all respect and the most sincere intentions. 

 

soon man, soon. The market is still pricing in the effects of tax savings. 2018 is going to be great on the stock markets. Put off those big purchases until 2019. 

 

That's great advice man. It's too bad most people in this country don't have the luxury of being able to 'put off' those big purchases. 

Personal anecdote. If you've ever wondered who are these idiots who are getting stiffed by credit companies to the tune of over 20% interest on car loans and taking all these subprime loans that are contributing to our individual debt crisis, I'm one of them. 

After I got out of the Army I made a series of very poor decisions while rehabbing my injuries and figuring out what to do with my life, eventually settling on a course of action that required I further add to my financial concerns in order to find a way out. I signed a predatory loan to get my commercial driver's license (five thousand dollars for ten days of 'education') that the 'driving school' was happy to accommodate by connecting me to the dedicated financial 'liaison' to the credit company the school was owned by. 

I then took that five thousand dollar certificate (at an exorbitant interest rate)  to all the shipping companies that had promised such great wages and benefits, and suddenly when I actually started doing my job I was nickle and dimed to death by my employers until my paycheck dwindled to effectively nothing. At three separate companies and once as a private contractor where I did my job as well as only someone as whimsical as myself can, I found myself unable to overcome the interest THE INTEREST on that 'school' loan I'd signed. 

Then I threw my hands up and had to declare bankruptcy, no way around it. After being sold by my lawyer MY LAWYER about how easy and great it was going to be to get my life back on track, including his paralegal who told me an inspirational story about her own decision to declare bankruptcy and become a paralegal, I couldn't find a car. I couldn't find an apartment. I literally couldn't get a Best Buy card because they run a credit check for some reason.

I was making twenty-two dollars an hour at this point, and yet I was homeless and without transportation. I lived on the good will of my friends and found out how stunningly expensive it is to be poor. I had money in the bank, I had a job. But I couldn't buy a car that wasn't destined to break down on the way off the lot because I literally couldn't get an auto loan for five grand when I was willing to put down 2500 dollars. I was willing to pay half up front for the right to buy a car that was somewhat dependable, I had income, and as far as they knew I actually had a fucking place to live, but it wasn't enough. And when you're poor, there's always some crisis that comes around the corner to make any preciously cultivated dollars effectively evaporate. Now I got a car. Eventually I swallowed my pride, I swallowed my painstakingly learned lessons of financial prudence, and I swallowed the 27 per cent interest loan for a vehicle generously KBB valued at about $5,500 that was upcharged to over 8 grand (cheapest car on the lot, BTW) and that if I pay my minimum payment on will eventually cost me almost 15,000 dollars.

I had to. There was no way I could keep driving my friend's grandmother's deceased husband's failing '93 Tacoma (same age as me, actually) to work every day, I sure as shit couldn't keep driving it an hour each way to the weekly VA appointments I had either. 

And after all that. After I crawled through five years of mistakes and financial shit to emerge somewhat stable on the other side, I couldn't get an apartment. 

Again, had a job. Had money, I offered multiple times to pay the first six months up front (a feat that was going to be accomplished by borrowing from my family, but at least that doesn't show up on your credit). My dad, who has excellent credit and is now a moderately wealthy man, offered to co-sign to no avail. 

So here I am, sitting in a fantastic apartment in one of the nicest parts of town because somehow this was the only place in town that would take me despite the upscale location and price (I'd be happy with a shithole with a shower, but I couldn't afford that somehow) with an outrageous car payment for a vehicle that was recalled a week after I bought it (weird, because the guys who sold it to me mentioned that there were no recalls so often at the 11th hour before signing the paperwork that I took note at the time but told myself I was being weird because he had the 'national vehicle recall list' open on his desktop). 

I sit here in my inadvertently nice apartment with my shit car and I'm grateful. I'm grateful that I get to pay almost a third of my considerable income for an apartment that is far nicer than I wanted (that sentence is fucking insane) and am being fucked in the knee without even blood for lube every 3rd of the month when my car payment comes out and I scrape up extra money to add to paying down the total. 

I'm grateful! 

Jesus guys, I take no pleasure in writing any of that in a public space for people to see. And I don't expect you to give a damn about my problems, but don't step on my nuts until after I can have them removed. Please. I mean, it's gonna take a while so please be patient. I mean, on account of even though I have free '100 per cent' healthcare for the rest of my natural life, I can't afford a surgery that most medicine men deem 'medically necessary to sustain quality of life'. 

But that's a whole different story.  

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This is why I could give a shit (hole) about Bernie’s free college, we need debt jubilees first.

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2 hours ago, WinterFox said:

I was making twenty-two dollars an hour at this point, and yet I was homeless and without transportation. I lived on the good will of my friends and found out how stunningly expensive it is to be poor. I had money in the bank, I had a job. But I couldn't buy a car that wasn't destined to break down on the way off the lot because I literally couldn't get an auto loan for five grand when I was willing to put down 2500 dollars. I was willing to pay half up front for the right to buy a car that was somewhat dependable, I had income, and as far as they knew I actually had a fucking place to live, but it wasn't enough. And when you're poor, there's always some crisis that comes around the corner to make any preciously cultivated dollars effectively evaporate. Now I got a car. Eventually I swallowed my pride, I swallowed my painstakingly learned lessons of financial prudence, and I swallowed the 27 per cent interest loan for a vehicle generously KBB valued at about $5,500 that was upcharged to over 8 grand (cheapest car on the lot, BTW) and that if I pay my minimum payment on will eventually cost me almost 15,000 dollars.

I had to. There was no way I could keep driving my friend's grandmother's deceased husband's failing '93 Tacoma (same age as me, actually) to work every day, I sure as shit couldn't keep driving it an hour each way to the weekly VA appointments I had either. 

And after all that. After I crawled through five years of mistakes and financial shit to emerge somewhat stable on the other side, I couldn't get an apartment

 

Apologies for the derailment.

You pretty much described the situation that led me to build my house out of pocket. I didn't live it, but others I knew...were sailing similar waters. Back then, I was seldom more than a couple checks from catastrophe.  So, I bought a mobile home for cash - $1200.  Spent another grand making it habitable, put it in a trailer park.  Space rent is, or was, about one third what it takes to rent anything.   That let me save money to buy a piece of land.  At that time, I was delivering pizza for a living.  The meager paychecks covered the basic bills.  I saved everything else for the house, built it from scratch with help from my Dad and Brother.  Carpentry by day, pizza delivery by night. Wiped out everything I'd saved and put me in the hole, though I was able to keep the bills under control.  Then, a couple years later, the bills were gone and I owned the place free and clear. 

Two keys to being able to do this:

1 - at that income level, credit cards and payment plans are NOT your friends.  They're traps.

2 - separate what you NEED from what you WANT.  Far, far too many people never figure this out. 

That said, some of the old line fiscal conservatives are aware of point 2.  Their legitimate concerns about debt and responsible spending are being amplified and distorted by opportunists, or at least that's how it looks to me.  As gets pointed out here, national budgets and concerns are different than personal ones. 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, lokisnow said:

This is why I could give a shit (hole) about Bernie’s free college, we need debt jubilees first.

I agree, but I doubt that is ever going to happen. However, we don't necessarily need everyone's debt wiped out Mr. Robot style. We could for example just make all payments across the board ten or five percent (of income I mean), for student loan borrowers of all types., and the problem would be in essence solved. (with some sort of automatic sign up, no excuses for the loan holders to fuck with the borrowers, such as with the "short period to apply" trick)

Obama made some great steps in this direction, but it's not quite applied universally. And the current government is likely going to reveal a plan to destroy student loan borrowers any month now, since they already began that misguided mission.

The curious case of Paul Ryan’s evaporating courage
He used to call out Trump’s racist comments. Now he doesn’t.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/12/16885412/paul-ryan-trump-racism-condemnation-curiel-shithole

 

Edited by Martell Spy

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9 hours ago, lokisnow said:

This is why I could give a shit (hole) about Bernie’s free college, we need debt jubilees first.

Let's give everything a way for free. What a novelly bad idea that it. 

I got a better idea, why can't  the Universities and colleges simply lower their tuition and make themselves more affordable.  If anyone can solve this dilemma ,  it should be the  learned luminaries running those  hallowed institutions of higher learning. They're supposed to be  knowledgeable in the issues of higher education and its financing and  they should be able devise solutions that don't involve the US government and its  taxpayers  having  to shell out the money by making it free for everyone.

 

 

 

Edited by GAROVORKIN

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26 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Let's give everything a way for free. What a novelly bad idea that it. 

I got a better idea, why can't  the  Universities  and colleges  simply lower their tuition and make themselves more affordable.  If anyone can solve this  dilemma ,  it should be the  learned luminaries  running those  hallowed institutions of higher learning. They're supposed to be  knowledgeable in the issues of higher education and its financing and  they should be able devise solutions that don't involve the US government and its  taxpayers  having  to shell out the money by making it free for everyone.

 

 

 

What "learned luminaries" do you think are running colleges and universities these days? Most institutions of higher learning in the USA are now being run by administrators who do have never been in the classroom and whose ideas of cost cutting involve putting more and more classes online, getting rid of full time faculty so they can higher part-time adjuncts who they can pay abysmally low salaries to while giving them no benefits, all the while steadily increasing the numbers of administrators and giving themselves salaries which are way higher than they used to be. In other words, the modern corporate model -- exploit everyone who isn't at the top. 

I don't know if absolutely free tuition for all undergraduates is a good idea or feasible in the USA. But to expect the present crop of college administrators to be able to "devise solutions" to this is barking up the wrong tree.

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16 minutes ago, Ormond said:

What "learned luminaries" do you think are running colleges and universities these days? Most institutions of higher learning in the USA are now being run by administrators who do have never been in the classroom and whose ideas of cost cutting involve putting more and more classes online, getting rid of full time faculty so they can higher part-time adjuncts who they can pay abysmally low salaries to while giving them no benefits, all the while steadily increasing the numbers of administrators and giving themselves salaries which are way higher than they used to be. In other words, the modern corporate model -- exploit everyone who isn't at the top. 

I don't know if absolutely free tuition for all undergraduates is a good idea or feasible in the USA. But to expect the present crop of college administrators to be able to "devise solutions" to this is barking up the wrong tree.

Well , there's part of a  solution right there . If these  administrators really want to help the cause of making colleges more affordable  , what they should do is start by firing  themselves .  That would at least save some  money that could be put to towards lowering  tuition.  And with nearly emerging AI technology , the position of administrator could be automated. :D

Edited by GAROVORKIN

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I never use the word shithole myself as I'd rather drop an F-bomb, but hey, expanding one's vocabulary is never a bad thing.

 So Prezzie Shithole, how is the golfing today?

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27 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

I never use the word shithole myself as I'd rather drop an F-bomb, but hey, expanding one's vocabulary is never a bad thing.

 So Prezzie Shithole, how is the golfing today?

The only thing these kinds of words contribute to the discussions is the lowering the standards of discussion ,dialogue and ultimately personal conduct and  behavior.   Crude lowers everything and everyone that  engages in it.

Edited by GAROVORKIN

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1 hour ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Let's give everything a way for free. What a novelly bad idea that it. 

Yes, that's why countries with free college are such shitholes ;)

Seriously, taxpayer-funded college might not provide all conditions for a truly meritocratic society, but it is a major pre-condition. On the other hand, self-paid college with outrageously high tuition prices creates an unofficial caste system, ridiculously stacked towards the children of the rich. I hope I do not have to explain the societal benefits of one over the other.

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3 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

The only thing these kinds of words contribute to the discussions is the lowering the standards of discussion ,dialogue and ultimately personal conduct and  behavior.   Crude lowers everything and everyone that  engages in it.

And here I thought the standards of discussion, dialogue and ultimately personal behavior were lowered by crude intellect trying to sell itself as something more.  The intellectually bankrupt lowers everything that engages in it.

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2 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Yes, that's why countries with free college are such shitholes ;)

Seriously, taxpayer-funded college might not provide all conditions for a truly meritocratic society, but it is a major pre-condition. On the other hand, self-paid college with outrageously high tuition prices creates an unofficial caste system, ridiculously stacked towards the children of the rich. I hope I do not have to explain the societal benefits of one over the other.

Just for the sake of argument , what about students from overseas ? You add that to tab and things will really get might expensive. 

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Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

And here I thought the standards of discussion, dialogue and ultimately personal behavior were lowered by crude intellect trying to sell itself as something more.  The intellectually bankrupt lowers everything that engages in it.

Yes but those same  intellectually crude and bankrupt people trying to sell themselves should at least be polite, civil and act with proper decorum,  wouldn't you agree  ?:D

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7 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Just for the sake of argument , what about students from overseas ? You add that to tab and things will really get might expensive. 

Why do you have to add them to the tab? Such strawmen are easily slain by adding a line in the "free college" law saying "applies only to citizens and legal residents".

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20 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

The only thing these kinds of words contribute to the discussions is the lowering the standards of discussion ,dialogue and ultimately personal conduct and  behavior.   Crude lowers everything and everyone that  engages in it.


I said it in the other topic, but I've always been baffled that swearing is reprehensible or lowers the standard of a dialogue. Fuck that idea. The only thing that lowers the standard of discussion is the ideas in the discussion.

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12 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

Yes but those same  intellectually crude and bankrupt people trying to sell themselves should at least be polite, civil and act with proper decorum,  wouldn't you agree  ?:D

I've never claimed you were not polite or that being polite mattered all that much, but sure, if that's what you want for yourself.  Otherwise you're just trying to police what you think is 'proper decorum', which is something that is not universal at all. 

Ormon's post (in the other thread, I believe) about the actual word is less important than the intent is spot on.  Who the fuck cares about the word shithole?  Only petty people who get stuck on classist bullshit like 'proper decorum'.  The intent behind 'shithole' is what matters here.  Decent folks aren't mad that the president said the s word.  They're mad that he's a racist shitbag piece of scum.  

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1 minute ago, polishgenius said:


I said it in the other topic, but I've always been baffled that swearing is reprehensible or lowers the standard of a dialogue. Fuck that idea. The only thing that lowers the standard of discussion is the ideas in the discussion.

I believe that constantly using swear words usually is a sign that one isn't thinking very clearly. Plus I believe the "f" word is inherently a word of violence, as when it is used as a verb pejoratively what you are really talking about is rape -- otherwise being f'd wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

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1 minute ago, Ormond said:

I believe that constantly using swear words usually is a sign that one isn't thinking very clearly. Plus I believe the "f" word is inherently a word of violence, as when it is used as a verb pejoratively what you are really talking about is rape -- otherwise being f'd wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Swear words tend to be governed by things like class and education.  Policing their existence tends to be the role of those who hold a higher status in these categories.  Swear policing is merely a form of class regulation.  

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13 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Why do you have to add them to the tab? Such strawmen are easily slain by adding a line in the "free college" law saying "applies only to citizens and legal residents".

Yes but there is the possibility that some high minded legislators  might on whim of extreme generosity might  decide to give this benefit to overseas citizens. There people that do think this way.

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23 hours ago, GAROVORKIN said:

The only thing these kinds of words contribute to the discussions is the lowering the standards of discussion ,dialogue and ultimately personal conduct and  behavior.   Crude lowers everything and everyone that  engages in it.

I don' know. I think lots of times it's better to call bullshit, bullshit, rather than beating around the bush, and not calling it like it is, in the name of "civility".

When Trump complains about there are too many brown people that want to come to this country, rather than blond haired and blue eyed Aryans, I don't think that merits a "civil" response.

I'll take a honest and to the point potty mouth, over a "civil" bullshit artist any day of the week.

Edited by OldGimletEye

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