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Littlefinger Sired Sweetrobin


Lost Melnibonean

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6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The episode with Dontos showed that Petyr knew how to avoid Varys’s little birds, and even that Littlefinger could outfox the spider. 

There's that too! I believe it's pretty clear LF wasn't particularly interested in having sex with Lysa. If they did have sex before they married it's not because he was indulging in an illicit affair because he wanted to fuck Lysa, it's because the affair was necessary for his game. So the question is not "why would he risk being caught to have sex with her?" but rather "how having sex with her could benefit him?".

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5 minutes ago, Chris Mormont said:

I also wondered if Robin's medical conditions were genetic, weak seed or if they may have been brought on in part by Lysa breastfeeding him way too long.

Breastfeeding does't ever cause negative outcomes for the breatfed child. Breastfeeding for two to seven years was actually the norm for the human species in traditional societies and according to recent scientific research seems to be the optimum duration from a biological perspective. The WHO considers two full years of breastfeeding the minimum a child should get for optimal health. There's no maximum ever stablished.

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16 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

Breastfeeding does't ever cause negative outcomes for the breatfed child. Breastfeeding for two to seven years was actually the norm for the human species in traditional societies and according to recent scientific research seems to be the optimum duration from a biological perspective. The WHO considers two full years of breastfeeding the minimum a child should get for optimal health. There's no maximum ever stablished.

Unless the mother is taking drugs... then it can be incredibly physically harmful. Otherwise prolonged breastfeeding appears to only have psychological implications, there is no evidence that in itself would cause 

Sweetrobin may well suffer from withdrawal similar to the effects of opioid withdrawal. Does Lysa take a pinch of something in her wine?

This actually could explain a lot...

Quote

 

"You can't want her. You can't. She's a stupid empty-headed little girl. She doesn't love you the way I have. I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I?" Tears ran down her aunt's puffy red face. "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me, I never knew, I only drank what Father gave me . . ."
"That's past and done, Lysa. Lord Hoster's dead, and his old maester as well." Littlefinger moved closer. "Have you been at the wine again? You ought not to talk so much. We don't want Alayne to know more than she should, do we? Or Marillion?" 
Lady Lysa ignored that. "Cat never gave you anything. It was me who got you your first post, who made Jon bring you to court so we could be close to one another. You promised me you would never forget that."

 

But it doesn’t sound like Robert Arryn is Littlefinger’s kid...
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38 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Unless the mother is taking drugs...

Robin may well suffer from withdrawal similar to the effects of opioid withdrawal.

This actually could explain a lot...

The large majority of drugs are compatible with breastfeeding. Due to high molecular weight most opioids don't make it to breastmilk in relevant quantity. 

I think there are many theories much more likely to explain Lysa's state of mind and Robert's sicklyness and spoiled personality... 

edited to back up my statement about drugs and breastfeeding: http://www.e-lactancia.org/breastfeeding/analgesics-opioids-atc-n02a/group/ (not that what you're proposing is impossible, not at all... it's just not my favourite theory)

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36 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Unless the mother is taking drugs...

Robin may well suffer from withdrawal similar to the effects of opioid withdrawal. Does Lysa take a pinch of something in her wine?

This actually could explain a lot...

But it doesn’t sound like Robert Arryn is Littlefinger’s kid...

Well, there is the possibility that Petyr was preventing her from having Jon’s child...

Quote

He smiled, his thin lips bright red from the pomegranate seeds.

Sansa VI, Storm 68

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1 hour ago, Lady Dacey said:

The large majority of drugs are compatible with breastfeeding. Due to high molecular weight most opioids don't make it to breastmilk in relevant quantity. 

I think there are many theories much more likely to explain Lysa's state of mind and Robert's sicklyness and spoiled personality... 

edited to back up my statement about drugs and breastfeeding: http://www.e-lactancia.org/breastfeeding/analgesics-opioids-atc-n02a/group/ (not that what you're proposing is impossible, not at all... it's just not my favourite theory)

Just from a medical perspective, while many drugs will not appear in meaningful quantity in mother’s milk, what you are saying is at least highly debatable and possibly simply inaccurate... While short term risk to a baby may be very low in a modern controlled dosage, continued exposure would almost certainly be harmful. (Sorry about link, but it seemed the most relevant citation)

https://watermark.silverchair.com/16-4-628a.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAbYwggGyBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGjMIIBnwIBADCCAZgGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMkbSkKp5x8e6DpCRXAgEQgIIBaSfFzOlAgnpN0fJewyHED0rwoS0goEwmpJHVMmpj71jtmJMlUi2mm4mc3fexSPAmjPyX5LJyaEw_0ACDZSBq_lTLMVKnsVSHJLQRZ2HOu5wFTlxg-6wSYjt_YIomaFNJaljq6bChOuZlJyNr_pf9OXatdzF4TTzoSvTdknL1sIxne2P7SdmVD1wondL6ppm3gD6dBu8GKYe5FOAWMhdorYihNomrS4kDhHk7lfeq-gD-S0ZAPBl_F9A-MzEBDDOUvWg7ZLw9I_QlcHTHaR3zyST3lse6KvzT5fwMv4t4CFMcZnT_Ats2f_xTLgvjHyTdz1WXjjMpKbr9e-s_nXXa5cBsbaFub2tpjWwe3lP-48m63SJnOdS9AVl10zyqiPuIgdxqhNYjmkGtMJVybCk15XfJ_X6jtaNKibv2kaVT86JI48O1KR28Iyv6R5NRORoVHPSwvf_AvR2aJo4eyYVzwvuBuD9Yc7iBgDg

 

If Lysa began taking something regularly after her first miscarriage, and continued through the time of her death, it could contribute to explaining Robert Arryn’s condition, and deterioration after his mother’s death.

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20 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

From Sansa Sansa VI, Storm 68...

So, the oranges and the pomegranates were brought together...

Not just an orange, but a blood orange...

Can’t keep your hands clean with pomegranate seeds...

Doh! And there it is: the seed that Petyr loosened (or pried) from the pomegranate (or Jon Arryn) was wee Robert. Dig what he does with his seed...

Well, we know Robert ain’t no player, and that poor little boy ain’t got long for this world, does he?

Yikes!

Oh Sansa, just say no...

Or just spoon it up, I guess..."

Of course, the casual reader will begin to understand that to mean the fetus that Lord Hoster forced Lysa to abort. But perhaps Lysa is referring to a second son?

I had always resisted this theory before, thinking that Lysa meant that all six of the pregnancies mentioned above were Jon’s, but I can see now that doesn’t necessarily follow. She says Jon could not give her children. That this follows the bit about Petyr loosening a seed earlier in the same chapter has caused me to change my mind about this theory.

Congrats, Lost Peach Melba -- 'the sword prying loose the seed' (love the double entendre) -- that's a good one!

Jon Arryn's famous last words 'Robert...the seed is strong!'

-- He wasn't talking about Robert Baratheon, nor his 'seed'.

19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

After all, Jon Arryn believes Robert is his son, right?

By the time of his cryptic deathbed monologue, he had figured out he wasn't!  We're told the seed of old men is 'weak'; ergo, 'strong seed' must be derived from someone younger.  

4 hours ago, zandru said:

"The seed is strong" clearly refers to Cersei's children being no Baratheons.

No it doesn't; that's presumption and prejudice on the part of the characters, and the readers; there is nothing 'clear' in Jon Arryn's final utterances, nor any of GRRM's for that matter!

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45 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well, there is the possibility that Petyr was preventing her from having Jon’s child...

Can you cite any textual evidence for this?

1 minute ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

If Lysa began taking something regularly after her first miscarriage

Ditto. Any evidence? All this seems to be extreme speculation to defend an unlikely hypothesis.

Why might Robert Arryn be so small and sickly? Maybe Lysa's abortion and subsequent inability to successfully bear children was a factor. We don't know how far along she was before Hoster had her drink the super moon tea, but his deathbed ravings about "the blood!" suggest that the trauma of the abortion process was something that stayed with him until his dying day - and he only watched it.

We know that elderly parents are likely to produce sickly or handicapped children. This was once thought to be solely based on maternal age (Run fact! Every woman is born with the full complement of ova, which will last her the remainder of her life. Thus, YOUR health has a lot to do with your maternal grandmother's health and nutrition at the time your mother was in her womb),  because male sperm ("seed") is made fresh daily. However, the organs making sperm do degrade with age, too. So Jon Arryn's doddering old age (what was he? 45? 50?) was no doubt a factor, too.

That little Robert was smaller than average says nothing about how big he would grow when he finally matured. Boys can experience frightening growth spurts in their teens, and the tiny little guy can become a six foot plus bruiser once the right hormones kick in. So Robert's stature is not a good guide as to whether he was fathered by Baelish. Also, Baelish wasn't old and decrepit, so why would his offspring be?

I continue to conclude that it's highly unlikely, and not born out by the text, that Robert Arryn was actually Robert "Baelish" Stone.

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4 minutes ago, zandru said:

I continue to conclude that it's highly unlikely, and not born out by the text, that Robert Arryn was actually Robert "Baelish" Stone.

GRRM 'casually' describes the seemingly-frivolous extraneous detail of how they both despise porridge -- coincidence?  (If you know anything about GRRM, you should know better by now...;))

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22 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I got this from the link :

Your session has timed out. Please go back to the article page and click the PDF link again.
22 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

what you are saying is at least highly debatable and possibly simply inaccurate.

Breastfeeding is my field of expertise. I work with breastfeeding support on a daily basis, and I research it at the Faculty of Nutrition located at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro State - the oldest nutrition course in Brazil and one of the most prestigious schools in the country. I know what I'm talking about here.

22 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

If Lysa began taking something regularly after her first miscarriage, and continued through the time of her death, it could contribute to explaining Robert Arryn’s condition

It is possible, but highly unlikely in the real world. The author may choose to use such plot device though, of course! 

22 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

and deterioration after his mother’s death.

He'd suffer withdrawal, but he wouldn't 'deteriorate' after getting clean. 

There's no evidence that Lysa was a drug user or that she was druged by Petyr or anyone else. The behavior that Robert shows after his mother dies is very compatible with what's expected after such traumatic event (loosing a parent at a young age), specially given how immature he is and how codependent their relationship seemed to be. He already had the shaking sickness before Lysa died. It getting worse after a traumatic event makes a lot of sense. Suckling helping to prevent fits also makes sense without any drug involvement - suckling is very soothing. 

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9 minutes ago, zandru said:

Can you cite any textual evidence for this?

Nope. Just the bright red smile from the pomegranate seeds, which might or might not be a heavily veiled hint from the author. Or perhaps it's a foreshadowing of the red smile that Arya's going to give him at some point. Or maybe it's  jus a throw away in a 6,000 page saga. 

17 minutes ago, zandru said:

I continue to conclude that it's highly unlikely, and not born out by the text, that Robert Arryn was actually Robert "Baelish" Stone.

So, you're saying this is crackpot? 

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25 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

coincidence?

Definitely. Lots of people hate porridge. Are ALL of us intimately related?

13 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, you're saying this is crackpot? 

Wouldn't saying such a cruel and judgemental thing be banned on this forum? That's what I've been told  (far too many times. Sandor Clegane wouldn't like it here, and vice versa.)

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23 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

GRRM 'casually' describes the seemingly-frivolous extraneous detail of how they both despise porridge -- coincidence?  (If you know anything about GRRM, you should know better by now...;))

Here’s the porridge passage...

Quote

She found Lord Robert alone in the Morning Hall above the kitchens, pushing a wooden spoon listlessly through a big bowl of porridge and honey. "I wanted eggs," he complained when he saw her. "I wanted three eggs boiled soft, and some back bacon."

They had no eggs, no more than they had bacon. The Eyrie's  granaries held sufficient oats and corn and barley to feed them for a year, but they depended on a bastard girl named Mya Stone to bring fresh foodstuffs up from the valley floor. With the Lords Declarant encamped at the foot of the mountain there was no way for Mya to get through. ...

"You can have eggs when Mya comes, as many as you like," Alayne promised the little lordling. "She'll bring eggs and butter and melons, all sorts of tasty things."

The boy was unappeased. "I wanted eggs today."

"Sweetrobin, there are no eggs, you know that. Please, eat your porridge, it's very nice." She ate a spoonful of her own.

Robert pushed his spoon across the bowl and back, but never brought it to his lips. "I am not hungry," he decided. "I want to go back to bed. I never slept last night. I heard singing. Maester Coleman gave me dreamwine but I could still hear it."

Alayne put down her spoon. "If there had been singing, I should have heard it too. You had a bad dream, that's all."

...

... "Be a good boy and eat your porridge," Alaynepleaded. "Please? For me?"

"I don't want porridge." Robert flung his spoon across the hall. It bounced off a hanging tapestry, and left a smear of porridge upon a white silk moon. "The lord wants eggs!"

"The lord shall eat porridge and be thankful for it," said Petyr's voice, behind them.

Alayne turned, and saw him in the doorway arch with Maester Colemon at his side. "You should heed the Lord Protector, my lord," the maestersaid. "Your lords bannermen are coming up the mountain to pay you homage, so you will need all your strength."

...

... Petyr turned to the stoop-backed serving woman hovering near the kitchen steps. "Mela, fetch his lordship a new spoon. He wants to eat his porridge."

"I do not! Let my porridge fly!" This time Robert flung the bowl, porridge and honey and all. Petyr Baelish ducked aside nimbly, but Maester Colemon was not so quick. The wooden bowl caught him square in the chest, and its contents exploded upward over his face and shoulders. He yelped in a most unmaesterlike fashion, while Alayne turned to soothe the little lordling, but too late. The fit was on him. A pitcher of milk went flying as his hand caught it, flailing. When he tried to rise he knocked his chair backwards and fell on top of it. One foot caught Alayne in the belly, so hard it knocked the wind from her. "Oh, gods be good," she heard Petyr say, disgusted.

Globs of porridge dotted Maester Colemon's face and hair as he knelt over his charge, murmuring soothing words. One gobbet crept slowly down his right cheek, like a lumpy grey-brown tear. It is not so bad a spell as the last one, Alayne thought, trying to be hopeful. By the time the shaking stopped, two guards in sky-blue cloaks and silvery mail shirts had come at Petyr's summons. "Take him back to bed and leech him," the Lord Protector said, and the taller guardsman scooped the boy up in his arms. I could carry him myself, Alayne thought. He is no heavier than a doll.

...

"As you command, my lord." The maester hurried out, his chain clinking softly with every step.

"Father," Alayne asked when he was gone, "will you have a bowl of porridge to break your fast?"

"I despise porridge." He looked at her with Littlefinger's eyes.

Alayne I, Feast 23

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3 minutes ago, zandru said:

Definitely. Lots of people hate porridge. Are ALL of us intimately related?

I like porridge. 

4 minutes ago, zandru said:

Wouldn't saying such a cruel and judgemental thing be banned on this forum? That's what I've been told  (far too many times. Sandor Clegane wouldn't like it here, and vice versa.)

I would not mind. I don't think this is crackpot though, since it's not bizarre, and since there is at least some possible textual support. 

Here's some good crackpot

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40 minutes ago, zandru said:

male sperm ("seed") is made fresh daily. However, the organs making sperm do degrade with age, too. So Jon Arryn's doddering old age (what was he? 45? 50?) was no doubt a factor, too.

That's not scientifically accurate at all - while a man may produce less sperm with age, the sperm produced is perfect. Jon Arryn was probably around 60 or older when he died - he was older than Hoster Tully. His age has absolutely nothing to do with his son's health though. With all the information we get about Lysa's previous miscarriages, she probably had problems in her womb/placenta. Intra-uterus growth restriction (which is compatibles with one late provoked abortion and multiple miscarriages) can explain Robert's health issues very well. 

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52 minutes ago, zandru said:

Can you cite any textual evidence for this?

Ditto. Any evidence? All this seems to be extreme speculation to defend an unlikely hypothesis.

Why might Robert Arryn be so small and sickly? Maybe Lysa's abortion and subsequent inability to successfully bear children was a factor. We don't know how far along she was before Hoster had her drink the super moon tea, but his deathbed ravings about "the blood!" suggest that the trauma of the abortion process was something that stayed with him until his dying day - and he only watched it.

We know that elderly parents are likely to produce sickly or handicapped children. This was once thought to be solely based on maternal age (Run fact! Every woman is born with the full complement of ova, which will last her the remainder of her life. Thus, YOUR health has a lot to do with your maternal grandmother's health and nutrition at the time your mother was in her womb),  because male sperm ("seed") is made fresh daily. However, the organs making sperm do degrade with age, too. So Jon Arryn's doddering old age (what was he? 45? 50?) was no doubt a factor, too.

That little Robert was smaller than average says nothing about how big he would grow when he finally matured. Boys can experience frightening growth spurts in their teens, and the tiny little guy can become a six foot plus bruiser once the right hormones kick in. So Robert's stature is not a good guide as to whether he was fathered by Baelish. Also, Baelish wasn't old and decrepit, so why would his offspring be?

I continue to conclude that it's highly unlikely, and not born out by the text, that Robert Arryn was actually Robert "Baelish" Stone.

I wrote this a while ago:

Provoking an abortion after the first trimester can result in very serious consequences. Because she actually wanted to have the baby it's very likely she was hiding the pregnancy from her father until it was impossible not to notice, resulting in a late abortion. Hoster mentions a lot of blood. An early miscariage usually is like a heavy flow and some cramping and that's it. Not very noteworthy. A late abortion may take full labour, contractions, hemorrhages, the birth of a fetus (living or dead), placenta delivery... it's a very sad and traumatizing thing to go through or witness. Very dangerous too. Specially before courettage was possible and "remainings" (much more commom in miscarriages than actual delivery of a full-term child) would become infected.

Also, Lysa was able to conceive but not the carry a prengnancy to term. She had at least five pregnancies that ended up in miscarriages. That is a very strong indicative the problem was in her uterus, not in her eggs or her cycling or her hormones and definetely NOT in Jon Arryn's sperm. 

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21 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

From Sansa VI, Storm 68...

So, the oranges and the pomegranates were brought together...

Not just an orange, but a blood orange...

Can’t keep your hands clean with pomegranate seeds...

Doh! And there it is: the seed that Petyr loosened (or pried) from the pomegranate (or Jon Arryn) was wee Robert. Dig what he does with his seed...

Well, we know Robert ain’t no player, and that poor little boy ain’t got long for this world, does he?

Yikes!

Oh Sansa, just say no...

Or just spoon it up, I guess...

Of course, the casual reader will begin to understand that to mean the fetus that Lord Hoster forced Lysa to abort. But perhaps Lysa is referring to a second son?

I had always resisted this theory before, thinking that Lysa meant that all six of the pregnancies mentioned above were Jon’s, but I can see now that doesn’t necessarily follow. She says Jon could not give her children. That this follows the bit about Petyr loosening a seed earlier in the same chapter has caused me to change my mind about this theory.

Nice work.

To the bold, this reminds me of the many iterations of caesarean sections (or the near like) we have in the story. Some of those stories have to do with the sword doing the cutting as well. Even Lancel spilling his seed on Cersei's belly is a literary form of this theme.

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8 minutes ago, zandru said:

Can you cite any textual evidence for this?

Ditto. Any evidence? All this seems to be extreme speculation to defend an unlikely hypothesis.

Fair question, proof is clearly hard to come by in the series... but evidence, maybe...

We’d have to look to the Maesters or someone else who would have been able to provide Lysa with the substances I’m suggesting. Like say, a gouty old man trying to impress her?

Sorry in advance, in trying to find quotes I’ve run out of time for commentary for now, but I’ll be back!

Quote

Sweetsleep is the gentlest of poisons," the waif told her, as she was grinding some with a mortar and pestle. "A few grains will slow a pounding heart and stop a hand from shaking, and make a man feel calm and strong. A pinch will grant a night of deep and dreamless sleep. Three pinches will produce that sleep that does not end. The taste is very sweet, so it is best used in cakes and pies and honeyed wines. Here, you can smell the sweetness."

Sweetsleep is also associated with bleeding...

Quote

 

When Lysa espied Catelyn, she welcomed her with a sisterly embrace and a moist kiss on the cheek. "Isn't it a lovely morning? The gods are smiling on us. Do try a cup of the wine, sweet sister. Lord Hunter was kind enough to send for it, from his own cellars."

Lord Hunter is older than Lord Arryn and yet Lysa pays attention to him... and his wine. We know gouty men take medicine for the pain, as we see wth Doran Martel.

Quote

 

"How many lived past infancy?" she asked bluntly.
"Five." He ticked them off on fingers plump as sausages. "Ser Perwyn. Ser Benfrey. Maester Willamen, who took his vows last year and now serves Lord Hunter in the Vale. Olyvar, who squired for your son. And Lady Roslin, the youngest. Four boys to one girl. Lord Edmure will have more sons than he knows what to do with." 
"I am sure that will please him." So the girl was like to be fertile as well as fair of face. That should put Edmure's mind at ease. Lord Walder had left her brother no cause for complaint, so far as she could see.

 

 

Quote

 

“I don't love her. She's just the mule girl." Robert sniffled. "Maester Colemon put something vile in my milk last night, I could taste it. I told him I wanted sweetmilk, but he wouldn't bring me any. Not even when I commanded him. I am the lord, he should do what I say. No one does what I say."


 

Quote
 "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me, I never knew, I only drank what Father gave me . . ."
"That's past and done, Lysa. Lord Hoster's dead, and his old maester as well." Littlefinger moved closer. "Have you been at the wine again? You ought not to talk so much. We don't want Alayne to know more than she should, do we? Or Marillion?"

 

Quote

"His lord father agreed with you," said a voice at her elbow. She turned to behold Maester Colemon, a cup of wine in his hand. "He was planning to send the boy to Dragonstone for fostering, you know … oh, but I'm speaking out of turn." The apple of his throat bobbed anxiously beneath the loose maester's chain. "I fear I've had too much of Lord Hunter's excellent wine. The prospect of bloodshed has my nerves all a-fray …"

And just for fun:

Quote

Robert had been jesting with Jon and old LordHunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion's crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost.

...

8 minutes ago, zandru said:

We know that elderly parents are likely to produce sickly or handicapped children. This was once thought to be solely based on maternal age (Run fact! Every woman is born with the full complement of ova, which will last her the remainder of her life. Thus, YOUR health has a lot to do with your maternal grandmother's health and nutrition at the time your mother was in her womb),  because male sperm ("seed") is made fresh daily. However, the organs making sperm do degrade with age, too. So Jon Arryn's doddering old age (what was he? 45? 50?) was no doubt a factor, too.

I’m not sure if this is based on science or fiction.

8 minutes ago, zandru said:

That little Robert was smaller than average says nothing about how big he would grow when he finally matured. Boys can experience frightening growth spurts in their teens, and the tiny little guy can become a six foot plus bruiser once the right hormones kick in. So Robert's stature is not a good guide as to whether he was fathered by Baelish. Also, Baelish wasn't old and decrepit, so why would his offspring be?

They can experience crazy growth spurts, but usually the big kid turns into the big man, ditto the little sickly kid.

8 minutes ago, zandru said:

I continue to conclude that it's highly unlikely, and not born out by the text, that Robert Arryn was actually Robert "Baelish" Stone.

I consider this likely one of those details we will likely only see hinted at, not proven, and left to the readers to make up their own mind.

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1 hour ago, Lady Dacey said:

I got this from the link :


Your session has timed out. Please go back to the article page and click the PDF link again.

Breastfeeding is my field of expertise. I work with breastfeeding support on a daily basis, and I research it at the Faculty of Nutrition located at the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro State - the oldest nutrition course in Brazil and one of the most prestigious schools in the country. I know what I'm talking about here.

It is possible, but highly unlikely in the real world. The author may choose to use such plot device though, of course! 

He'd suffer withdrawal, but he wouldn't 'deteriorate' after getting clean. 

There's no evidence that Lysa was a drug user or that she was druged by Petyr or anyone else. The behavior that Robert shows after his mother dies is very compatible with what's expected after such traumatic event (loosing a parent at a young age), specially given how immature he is and how codependent their relationship seemed to be. He already had the shaking sickness before Lysa died. It getting worse after a traumatic event makes a lot of sense. Suckling helping to prevent fits also makes sense without any drug involvement - suckling is very soothing. 

We’ve gotten sidetracked... probably due to our fields of work...

sorry about the link, a google search of “opiod breast feeding oxford” turns up a number of articles... the first was what I was trying to cite.

But fundamentally, of course high levels (especially sustained over the long term) of opioids will effect neonatal development. And more importantly this isn’t the place for us to give or debate medical advise.

cheers

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2 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

There's that too! I believe it's pretty clear LF wasn't particularly interested in having sex with Lysa. If they did have sex before they married it's not because he was indulging in an illicit affair because he wanted to fuck Lysa, it's because the affair was necessary for his game. So the question is not "why would he risk being caught to have sex with her?" but rather "how having sex with her could benefit him?".

Yeah, Petyr and his games. I agree with this. He performed his own selfish form of "duty" with Lysa.

2 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

The large majority of drugs are compatible with breastfeeding. Due to high molecular weight most opioids don't make it to breastmilk in relevant quantity. 

I think there are many theories much more likely to explain Lysa's state of mind and Robert's sicklyness and spoiled personality... 

edited to back up my statement about drugs and breastfeeding: http://www.e-lactancia.org/breastfeeding/analgesics-opioids-atc-n02a/group/ (not that what you're proposing is impossible, not at all... it's just not my favourite theory)

I really don't want to sway this thread into a Lysa specific discussion, so I will just put this idea here real quick like to see if it maybe plays in to Sweet Robin more than I thought. Maybe some of the perceived strangeness we see with Sweetrobin has to do with some other type of poisoning? I am not claiming it is, because there are other theories, just wanted to add one more :P

I had this thought a while ago when chatting with the keen @Lord Wraith, but will paste it here:

That is a fun fact, and one I agree with.

However, recently I have been wondering if Lysa was not poisoning herself, maybe unknowingly, with the makeup and clothes she wears. I came across an interesting article a few weeks ago about the poison in makeup and women's dresses a long time ago. Some women would literally spontaneously ignite because of the toxins, and the would go "mad" from the poisons that leached into their systems... their humors would be off.

It was called the "Arsenic waltz" https://hyperallergic.com/133571/fatal-victorian-fashion-and-the-allure-of-the-poison-garment/

And green dye in history was known to be a killer, as was makeup in general with the copious uses of lead, arsenic, and other poisons and irritants. Lommy Greenhands was a dyer's apprentice.

  • AGOT/Dany VI:  Across the aisle, a fat cloth trader from Yi Ti was haggling with a Pentoshi over the price of some green dye, the monkey tail on his hat swaying back and forth as he shook his head.

And then a recent new start of a reread reminded me how much the scene, verbiage, and process Cat has to take to get up to the Eyrie parallels the wall and the Black Gate. The Eryie, Weirwood throne, and Lysa all have the visuals of a twisted, dead "Bloodraven" cavern.

When we meet Lysa, she is caked in makeup, and we know that Sansa loves lemon cakes, so there could be a connection. Plus, the Whent blood also helps ;) Poison is a "women's work", but then again, so is wearing makeup (yes, in general).

  • A Game of Thrones- Cat VI- ... in truth; five cruel years, for Lysa. They had taken their toll. Her sister was two years the younger, yet she looked older now. Shorter than Catelyn, Lysa had grown thick of body, pale and puffy of face. She had the blue eyes of the Tullys, but hers were pale and watery, never still. Her small mouth had turned petulant. As Catelyn held her, she remembered the slender, high-breasted girl who'd waited beside her that day in the sept at Riverrun.
    • "Quiet!" Lysa snapped at her. "You're scaring the boy." Little Robert took a quick peek over his shoulder at Catelyn and began to tremble. His doll fell to the rushes, and he pressed himself against his mother. "Don't be afraid, my sweet baby," Lysa whispered. "Mother's here, nothing will hurt you." She opened her robe and drew out a pale, heavy breast, tipped with red. The boy grabbed for it eagerly, buried his face against her chest, and began to suck. Lysa stroked his hair.
  • A Game of Thrones - Sansa VI-    "I will need hot water for my bath, please," she told them, "and perfume, and some powder to hide this bruise." The right side of her face was swollen and beginning to ache, but she knew Joffrey would want her to be beautiful.
  • A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI-      "You may come kiss my cheek, Alayne." Dutifully she approached and knelt beside the bed. Her aunt was drenched in sweet scent, though under that was a sour milky smell. Her cheek tasted of paint and powder.
  • A Storm of Swords- Sansa VII- Amidst so much white marble even the sunlight looked chilly, somehow . . . though not half so chilly as her aunt. Lady Lysa had dressed in a gown of cream-colored velvet and a necklace of sapphires and moon-stones. Her auburn hair had been done up in a thick braid, and fell across one shoulder. She sat in the high seat watching her niece approach, her face red and puffy beneath the paint and powder. On the wall behind her hung a huge banner, the moon-and-falcon of House Arryn in cream and blue.

Basically, Sansa needs to get the F out of the Eyrie, and the F out of Auntie Crazy's makeup and dresses and lemoncakes. And hmmm, interesting, Creepyfinger tells Alyane to avoid the cream:

  • Alayne looked down at her dress, the deep blue and rich dark red of Riverrun. "Is it too—"
"It is too Tully. The Lords Declarant will not be pleased by the sight of my bastard daughter prancing about in my dead wife's clothes. Choose something else. Need I remind you to avoid sky blue and cream?"
 
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