NFL 2017 Championship: The Whiff Six

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, sperry said:

 

Rosen and Darnold are both elite physical talents that produced in college. Baker Mayfield is statistically the best QB in the history of college football. Mason Rudolph is another guy with all the physical tools who produced the numbers to back it up. Lamar Jackson is the best athlete to play the position since Michael Vick. I would not have the balls to pull the trigger on Josh Allen, but he's got the best physical tools of any of these guys.

 

Nothing is a guarantee. But the alternative is Alex Smith, a guy who has pretty firmly established that he is about the 16th best QB in football, and is also 33 years old.

I've only seen Rosen and Darnold play twice each, but neither really impressed. They look the part, and you can tell they have legit NFL arms, and yet, I just did see "it" from them. I think Baker has a good chance to be better than both of them, but I wonder if he'll durable at the next level. Same goes for Jackson, who I personally really like, but his frame is similar to RG3 and Bridgewater and we know how that's gone. I have heard very mixed things about Allen, but I've never seen him play so I can't really say much more about him. And I don't even know who Rudolph is (you'll have to forgive me, I watch college football very causally).

Perhaps this class will turn out to be a good one. Only time will tell. But I don't think there are 6 guys worth taking in the first round. I feel like Rosen and Darnold are guys worthy of going in the top 10, possibly top 5. I think Jackson should also be a first rounder, albeit a late in the round pick. Allen and Baker both seem like guys who should go in the second or third rounds. Same probably goes for Rudolph. But this is the NFL and we know teams will reach.

I actually wouldn't mind if the Vikings grabbed Jackson or Baker late in the first round. Franchise Case for a year, give Teddy a big hug goodbye, say thanks to Sam and wish him the best and groom the kid for a year to take over the team. The Vikings window is going to close soon if we don't find value at QB. We're basically at where Seattle was three years ago. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

45 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

NONE OF THE ABOVE ASSFACE!?!

LEARN TO ANTICIPATE MY ANTICS!

Kiss your mom with that mouth, do you? 

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Kiss your mom with that mouth, do you? 

Just yours, sugah. 'Cause I'm yo daddy now!

[Jace, Extat]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've only seen Rosen and Darnold play twice each, but neither really impressed. They look the part, and you can tell they have legit NFL arms, and yet, I just did see "it" from them. I think Baker has a good chance to be better than both of them, but I wonder if he'll durable at the next level. Same goes for Jackson, who I personally really like, but his frame is similar to RG3 and Bridgewater and we know how that's gone. I have heard very mixed things about Allen, but I've never seen him play so I can't really say much more about him. And I don't even know who Rudolph is (you'll have to forgive me, I watch college football very causally).

Perhaps this class will turn out to be a good one. Only time will tell. But I don't think there are 6 guys worth taking in the first round. I feel like Rosen and Darnold are guys worthy of going in the top 10, possibly top 5. I think Jackson should also be a first rounder, albeit a late in the round pick. Allen and Baker both seem like guys who should go in the second or third rounds. Same probably goes for Rudolph. But this is the NFL and we know teams will reach.

I actually wouldn't mind if the Vikings grabbed Jackson or Baker late in the first round. Franchise Case for a year, give Teddy a big hug goodbye, say thanks to Sam and wish him the best and groom the kid for a year to take over the team. The Vikings window is going to close soon if we don't find value at QB. We're basically at where Seattle was three years ago. 

Jesus, if the Vikes brought back Bradford or Keenum and picked up Lamaarr Jackson I would literally become 49% Vikings fan in an instant.

Jackson is beautiful. Perfection distilled into its clearest form. Football embodied in the flesh of a single organism so precise, so impossible to have conceived that to blink would be an insult to the senses.

Watching Lamarr Jackson in the proximity of a football is witnessing a miracle. When the play begins his every movement is an expression, a painting writ in the fleeting instant of immortality known only to legend.

Lamar Jackson with a football in his hands is like seeing air turn to gold.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

20 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Just yours, sugah. 'Cause I'm yo daddy now!

My mom is 65 and just dyed her hair green. Have fun with that.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Jesus, if the Vikes brought back Bradford or Keenum and picked up Lamaarr Jackson I would literally become 49% Vikings fan in an instant.

Jackson is beautiful. Perfection distilled into its clearest form. Football embodied in the flesh of a single organism so precise, so impossible to have conceived that to blink would be an insult to the senses.

Watching Lamarr Jackson in the proximity of a football is witnessing a miracle. When the play begins his every movement is an expression, a painting writ in the fleeting instant of immortality known only to legend.

Lamar Jackson with a football in his hands is like seeing air turn to gold.

Bradford isn't coming back. That man ain't about the pay cut lifestyle. Otherwise I agree. I just worry that Jackson won't have a long career. 

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Bradford isn't coming back. That man ain't about the pay cut lifestyle. Otherwise I agree. I just worry that Jackson won't have a long career. 

Dude, don't worry about that. I've come to believe that it isn't about Superbowls. It really isn't for fans.

I would trade the '06 SB in an instant and all the top seeds to have had a player like Mike Vick on my favorite team. It's why I love Luck so much, why I can't really even pretend that Russel Wilson isn't a god.

Even Patriots fans don't really get it with all of their wins and all of their success.

It's not about a stupid fucking trophy, it's about the moments week to week that just make your heart sing when your boys are out there doing work.

Look at Patriots fans, they're fucking awful. Because for all of their brilliance, all of the wins. The beauty in their ability to deconstruct the game so thoroughly only takes you so far. You can appreciate it, respect it deeply like most NFL fans have come to grips with. But there's something sterile about it.

All that heartless maneuvering really left something missing after that first win over the Rams. The aughts Colts were the same way, just not as good at it.

I can tell you that the regular season for Pats fans is boring. It was boring as a Colts fan too. LoveRock admitted it a few months back, nobody gives a shit about week 13 hosting the Bills. Sure, they get their little 'No Days Off' chants, but fuck New England.

Fuck the Polian Colts too.

Football is about watching greatness unfold in front of your eyes in ways that couldn't have been considered possible just seconds before.

Winning ten games a year and having a few incredible divisional round games that are actually meaningful and exciting with a once-in-a-lifetime talent on the team is worth more than all of the championships NE has collected over the years.

I appreciate the (normal) Pagano years a hundred times more than I do the (normal) Caldwell years or kind of even the Dungy ones. And it's not because Pagano did better, it's because Colts games became exciting again.

The Dungy ones are kind of iffy because there were the brilliant offerings of Marvin Harrison and some legitimately great defensive players that could rule the day. But the 06 Championship is really the only game I think of as a truly great moment as a fan. But with Luck, as fleeting as his career might end up being, this kid can make impossible things happen right in front of our eyes. Between him and T.Y. Hilton I have seen physical marvels explainable only by acts of god.

There's a reason that Pats fans stubbornly insist that the 07 offense is the greatest to ever exist and that little claim is more important to them than any other of Brady's legacies. It's because they witnessed actual magic happen on a weekly basis.

I don't care if Lamarr Jackson only plays for 5 years. You take him and you never look back.

Now 'Racists fans and the RGIII debacle... That's a different story, those people are cursed.

[Week]

9 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I can tell you that the regular season for Pats fans is boring. It was boring as a Colts fan too. LoveRock admitted it a few months back, nobody gives a shit about week 13 hosting the Bills. Sure, they get their little 'No Days Off' chants, but fuck New England.

Fuck the Polian Colts too.

I agree with this -- but I don't blame the Polian Colts, Pats, or Steelers.

I blame* the Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Chargers, Raiders, Racist Names, Giants (lately), 49ers (lately), Bears, Bucs, as well as the Rams, Jags and Titans (other than this year) for putting out a consistently piss poor product which makes the competent teams look like world-beaters.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Week said:

I agree with this -- but I don't blame the Polian Colts, Pats, or Steelers.

I blame* the Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Chargers, Raiders, Racist Names, Giants (lately), 49ers (lately), Bears, Bucs, as well as the Rams, Jags and Titans (other than this year) for putting out a consistently piss poor product which makes the competent teams look like world-beaters.

Oh, sure. Yeah, that's their fucking job. To win, I'm not talking shit on them for winning. I'm saying that that isn't the ultimate payoff for a fan.

The Steelers would be fucking awesome if their coaching staff wasn't full of assholes that let the most talented offensive roster in the world act like clowns all the time and their QB wasn't a fucking rapist.

[Week]

14 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Oh, sure. Yeah, that's their fucking job. To win, I'm not talking shit on them for winning. I'm saying that that isn't the ultimate payoff for a fan.

The Steelers would be fucking awesome if their coaching staff wasn't full of assholes that let the most talented offensive roster in the world act like clowns all the time and their QB wasn't a fucking rapist.

Agree one hundo percent on both. At this point, I'm no longer a rabid fan that I was more in my youth (mostly Sox/Bruins) -- so, the desired payoff really is more week-to-week entertainment than a Superb Owl season. Across the league, how many memorably enjoyable weeks were there? The wildness of week 17 is the only one that comes to mind for me.

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Week said:

Agree one hundo percent on both. At this point, I'm no longer a rabid fan that I was more in my youth (mostly Sox/Bruins) -- so, the desired payoff really is more week-to-week entertainment than a Superb Owl season. Across the league, how many memorably enjoyable weeks were there? The wildness of week 17 is the only one that comes to mind for me.

I thought this was a pretty good season. Lots of great games and new faces in the playoffs even if some of them didn't belong. And the Browns went 0-16!

[Jace, Extat]

I'm just sayin' @Tywin et al.

I really put it all out there about Lamaar Jackson.

I opened myself up to you. And you gave me two sentences.

Is this how its going to be? This is how you think you can treat me? I am a PERSON! When I espouse on the beauty of a QB from buttfuck Louisiana (yeah, @Rhom I said that shit) I expect you to respond.

You ain't no man!

[Jace, Extat]

6 minutes ago, Triskele said:

I've watched most games for both of them.  

I thought two seasons ago that Darnold was up there for the best freshman QB I'd ever seen and that his "it" factor was off the charts.  This past year took that down a notch.  He still has amazing highlight plays, but he was a bit too gunslingerish on the turnovers.  

Rosen is one of the best "against air" QB's anyone's ever seen.  If you just want to see a 6'4" guy hit his drop and throw a 25 yard out with an absolutely perfect spin right into a guy's face, he's the best.  But the fact is that UCLA had three years of being about .500 with him.  That's not all on him by any means, and in year 2 he only played the first 5 or 6 games, but he did not have a great record.  This past year he did put up great numbers but was cursed by being on a team with a historically terrible run defense.  The thing with Rosen is that a lot of people question his love for the game, but I'm not too worried about that.  He loves proving people wrong.

I think that both of them have high ceilings.  With Rosen though I would argue that he has a really high floor.   I think that the worst cases is that he's an average NFL QB that always puts up numbers but doesn't win enough.  I would be shocked if he's challenged by either NFL throws or NFL schemes.  In fact, neither are even conceivable.  

I actually think of Carson Palmer when watching Rosen.

More specifically, a modern Carson Palmer. All of the QB's can move in the pocket and pick up some turf from time to time, it's just how they come packaged these days.

Basically Alex Smith's movement skills with Palmer's arm and head talent.

And I think you're dead on Monkey Man. He'll be pretty good usually but ultimately not one of those guys you shake in your cleats about.

Y'know, Carson Palmer.

[Rhom]

7 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I'm just sayin' @Tywin et al.

I really put it all out there about Lamaar Jackson.

I opened myself up to you. And you gave me two sentences.

Is this how its going to be? This is how you think you can treat me? I am a PERSON! When I espouse on the beauty of a QB from buttfuck Louisiana (yeah, @Rhom I said that shit) I expect you to respond.

You ain't no man!

PQJ you poor uneducated child.  (Was going to go with the old Dan Akroyd line “you ignorant slut” but was afraid that was too harsh)

That’s like saying he’s from “Red Stick” when Baton Rouge sounds so much better.  The proper name of the town in Louisiana is Putain Derrière.

[A True Kaniggit]

11 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I'm just sayin' @Tywin et al.

I really put it all out there about Lamaar Jackson.

I opened myself up to you. And you gave me two sentences.

Is this how its going to be? This is how you think you can treat me? I am a PERSON! When I espouse on the beauty of a QB from buttfuck Louisiana (yeah, @Rhom I said that shit) I expect you to respond.

You ain't no man!

Ahem. That's Mr. buttfuck Louisiana to you.

[aceluby]

17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I actually wouldn't mind if the Vikings grabbed Jackson or Baker late in the first round. Franchise Case for a year, give Teddy a big hug goodbye, say thanks to Sam and wish him the best and groom the kid for a year to take over the team. The Vikings window is going to close soon if we don't find value at QB. We're basically at where Seattle was three years ago. 

Yep, totally agree.  I've got friends who think we should make a play for Cousins, and I think that's a terrible idea.

[sperry]

17 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've only seen Rosen and Darnold play twice each, but neither really impressed. They look the part, and you can tell they have legit NFL arms, and yet, I just did see "it" from them. I think Baker has a good chance to be better than both of them, but I wonder if he'll durable at the next level. Same goes for Jackson, who I personally really like, but his frame is similar to RG3 and Bridgewater and we know how that's gone. I have heard very mixed things about Allen, but I've never seen him play so I can't really say much more about him. And I don't even know who Rudolph is (you'll have to forgive me, I watch college football very causally).

Perhaps this class will turn out to be a good one. Only time will tell. But I don't think there are 6 guys worth taking in the first round. I feel like Rosen and Darnold are guys worthy of going in the top 10, possibly top 5. I think Jackson should also be a first rounder, albeit a late in the round pick. Allen and Baker both seem like guys who should go in the second or third rounds. Same probably goes for Rudolph. But this is the NFL and we know teams will reach.

I actually wouldn't mind if the Vikings grabbed Jackson or Baker late in the first round. Franchise Case for a year, give Teddy a big hug goodbye, say thanks to Sam and wish him the best and groom the kid for a year to take over the team. The Vikings window is going to close soon if we don't find value at QB. We're basically at where Seattle was three years ago. 

 

Two guys are going in the top 6, as Cleveland and the Jets absolutely have to draft QBs with their picks. If Elway likes one of these guys, the Broncos will draft one. Otherwise they're probably signing Cousins. Arizona will draft a QB at 15. Bills have the 21st and 22nd picks. They will be using one of those on a QB. At the back of the draft, Patriots, Saints, Steelers and Vikings are all teams that could look at QBs. There's even a lot of chatter that the Giants will be using their pick on a QB at 2.

 

And once you get down to draft day, those teams that want a QB are going to trade up. I would be absolutely shocked if someone didn't trade up to #4 (the Browns pick) to draft a QB, since the Jets and Broncos pick immediately afterwards. Giants and Colts could also trade down if there isn't a guy they love at 2/3.

 

Mason Rudolph is Oklahoma State's quarterback. Big kid, strong arm, unreal stats. He'd be a first rounder for sure in most years,  just might not this year due to depth.

 

Some mock drafts:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000912165/article/lance-zierlein-mock-draft-10-darnold-barkley-bolster-browns  5 QBs in the first (Darnold #1 to the Browns, Rosen #2 to the Giants, Allen #6 to the Jets, Mayfield #11 to the Dolphins, Jackson #29 to the Jaguars)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-raiders-go-defense-ravens-add-much-needed-wr-speed/ (Darnold 1, Rosen 2, Allen 5, Mayfield 6, Rudolph 21)

 

[dbunting]

I am not a learned man and have no talent to be an NFL scout or executive...but isn't the Alex Smith trade, one you make when you are a QB away from the Superb Owl? You trade for a starting QB who is up there in age and who isn't known as a play maker while giving up a draft pick and a CB who by all accounts is a stud in the making. I just don't get it.

Now I know this will sound stupid, but... I think Cleveland gave up one year too early on the process. They have some young talent on their roster now and tons of high draft picks once again this year, and if I read some articles correctly have a shit ton of cap space available. They could afford to offer Cousins a big money 3-4 year deal and not have a huge impact on their available cap. Then trade away the #1 pick to get more picks, use #4 on their top target and keep gaining young cheap talent. Cousins may not be a world beater but he has shown that he can put up good numbers with mediocre talent. To me he's a perfect fit for Cleveland and their process.

[Maithanet]

1 minute ago, dbunting said:

I am not a learned man and have no talent to be an NFL scout or executive...but isn't the Alex Smith trade, one you make when you are a QB away from the Superb Owl? You trade for a starting QB who is up there in age and who isn't known as a play maker while giving up a draft pick and a CB who by all accounts is a stud in the making. I just don't get it.

The Alex Smith trade is great for KC and terrible for Washington.  I assume it was done because Dan Snyder and Co feel that the fanbase is going to be very upset at bungling the Kirk Cousins situation (they're right) and would be even more upset if they have to go into another rebuild.  So getting Smith means the team will most likely be a 7 or 8 win team again next year.  As if that's something to celebrate. 

Quote

Now I know this will sound stupid, but... I think Cleveland gave up one year too early on the process. They have some young talent on their roster now and tons of high draft picks once again this year, and if I read some articles correctly have a shit ton of cap space available. They could afford to offer Cousins a big money 3-4 year deal and not have a huge impact on their available cap. Then trade away the #1 pick to get more picks, use #4 on their top target and keep gaining young cheap talent. Cousins may not be a world beater but he has shown that he can put up good numbers with mediocre talent. To me he's a perfect fit for Cleveland and their process.

Maybe.  But Cousins has a lot of options, and going to Cleveland is very unappealing for free agents.  So many quarterbacks have been ruined there, it's very unlikely he would choose that.  Cleveland does have a lot of young talent, but there's no guarantee that talent develops into pro bowlers.  Cleveland has shown again and again an ability to turn great draft picks into mediocre players.  If I were Cousins, I would use Cleveland for leverage, and then go somewhere better, like Denver.

[briantw]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Now I know this will sound stupid, but... I think Cleveland gave up one year too early on the process. 

I think most would agree with you there.  They fired the best GM they've had since the team returned in 1999 in favor of a dipshit coach who won one game in two years and actually regressed in year two despite the team being significantly more talented than in year one.