U.S. Politics: Girthers Vs. Anti-Girthers

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

The reason this isn't talked about too much is this is literally the fourth time in the last two months they've been on the verge of a shutdown (I think, it's honestly hard to keep track).  It's  tiring to get too worried about this every few weeks, and I think there's an assumption that another CR will be passed for another month (I believe Feb 16).  Last I checked the GOP might add funding CHIP to get the Senate Dem votes they need.  That'd be nice I guess.

If the Dems do plan on drawing a line in the sand this time and deny the votes in th Senate, they need to get on this now in terms of going public, making their position clear, and making sure they win the blame game.

As for Bannon, all I read is he pissed off both parties yesterday by continuing to stonewall and a contempt citation is being considered - and that he had one "slip up" that...doesn't seem like much.  Did I miss something?

Or just let Donnie and his clown posse dig their own hole so that Dems can save energy for filling in the grave.

I don't mind the Dem message so far, I actually think it's the smartest thing I've ever seen them do (exteremely low bar). The Right is in such a shambles that Senators are contradicting Trump, Reps are contradicting their Speaker, and yesterday a Senator made a speech on the floor comparing Trump to Stalin.

Why make the PR push for something the base is already on board for when instead you can just let the other guys let their dicks turn gangrenous because they didn't want to lance an infection?

Every time a Dem gets on camera and makes a statement, Fox can show that and scream that it's all the Democrats.

Paul Ryan and his house of horrors constantly screaming that it's all the Democrats when they control all three branches will eventually just start to look like what it is. Shifting of blame to the clear minority.

And when they eventually have to deal with Dems, guess who's going to hold all the power?

Now I'm not saying Schumer and Pelosi need to stick to their demand of a clean DACA, just maintaining committment to the Graham-Durbin proposal is clearly being ready to compromise. So I don't think liberals are going to abandon the party because they wouldn't just take off their shirts and suck Trump's dick like Republicans are doing.

This is a great chance to see the fissures finally erupt into a full on eruption for Republicans.

Right now there's a GOP senator from a Dakota standing next to Angus King saying he won't vote for another short term spending bill because he's tired of running the government month-to-month.

[Jace, Extat]

18 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

I wouldn't say people are being shouted down, so much as many here are pessimistic about Republicans doing the right thing and truly they have reason to be. Look at the spineless Paul Ryan and tell me that this jellyfish creature will ever do anything...and that's the bulk of the current Republican party distilled down to its essence. 

As for Flake and the like, I know words are important in politics. Still though I'd like to see more than words and see some action. Senator McCain has said his goal is to get a Select Committee on Russian hacking. That's great if he succeeds at this. Just haven't seen it yet. And in general watching Republicans from say 2009-2018 makes you pretty pessimistic about them in general.

That legislation to protect Mueller never materialized.

My guess is that Trump never gets removed by impeachment or the like. Most likely scenario is electoral politics will undo him. The scandal may play a part in this due to the drip, drip, drip of news, much like the email scandal did to HRC. Now while I'm a pessimist on Republicans, that makes me a somewhat of an optimist in that I think we'll still have semi free elections for a while.

Yeah, I don't get why all of you are demanding he be impeached? Get your fucking heads out of your asses, that's just not going to happen unless Democrats win 40 of the 33 Senate races this year. Just stop thinking about it, you're wasting your time and energy on a goddamn FANTASY

The best possible chance we have, and the one that actually looks like it might be in our future, is taking back the house.

Full stop.

End story.

They CANNOT overthrow our government if we take back the House. So instead of whining about people being insensitive by calling the president fat because he constantly belittles and demeans others, how about focusing on what is actually important AND realistic.

And that's making sure that Democracy is given her day in November by focusing your efforts on rallying people, not pointing at all the obstacles and bemoaning how high they're stacked against us without even offering an idea on what the fuck to do about it.

That is defeatism, plain and simple.

If you guys need me to be your Stalin, I'll make a goddamn order 227 in these threads until the tide of hate recedes. And I'm not going to send you bastards to the Gulag, I'm a little bit more cold than Uncle Joe. You're going to Mar a Lago.

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Why make the PR push for something the base is already on board for when instead you can just let the other guys let their dicks turn gangrenous because they didn't want to lance an infection?

Because shutdowns lead to widespread anger at Congress and you want to make sure that anger is disproportionately directed towards the GOP, as it was in the 2013 and 1995-6 shutdowns.  That was achieved by the Dems united in a clear position and casting the Republicans as negotiating in bad faith.  Not a hard thing to do, granted, but they need to get their message out there asap (which, ya know, requires uniting Dem MCs on a single message) because right now a shutdown is going to seem like it came out of nowhere to a lot of people.

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Because shutdowns lead to widespread anger at Congress and you want to make sure that anger is disproportionately directed towards the GOP, as it was in the 2013 and 1995-6 shutdowns.  That was achieved by the Dems united in a clear position and casting the Republicans as negotiating in bad faith.  Not a hard thing to do, granted, but they need to get their message out there asap (which, ya know, requires uniting Dem MCs on a single message) because right now a shutdown is going to seem like it came out of nowhere to a lot of people.

THAT'S GOOD!

The average person knows that Republicans have all the power. Ergo, when the shutdown 'comes out of nowhere' who the fuck do you think they're first going to blame? Even before they switch over to Fox news and instead of seeing Dems making 'excuses' what happens when there's only a couple of Democrats on camera saying 'we want a compromise' and everything else is infighting between the President and his own goddamn party?

Democrats aren't overplaying their hand here, they're drawing Republicans into a salient so that they can pinch the bag shut and drown everyone who went into it in a fucking river.

[Martell Spy]

Report: FBI Probing if Russia Funneled Money to NRA for Trump

https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-fbi-probing-if-russia-funneled-money-to-nra-for-trump?ref=home

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Democrats aren't overplaying their hand here, they're drawing Republicans into a salient so that they can pinch the bag shut and drown everyone who went into it in a fucking river.

Oh I don't think they'd be overplaying their hand either.  I'd be quite happy if they showed some spine and demanded a deal on DACA/immigration.  Their worry is obviously the vulnerable seats coming up in November.  What I'm saying is they need to actually get organized now, do a damn whip count, and either shit or get off the pot to make sure a shutdown doesn't backfire on their vulnerable Senators.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, dmc515 said:

Oh I don't think they'd be overplaying their hand either.  I'd be quite happy if they showed some spine and demanded a deal on DACA/immigration.  Their worry is obviously the vulnerable seats coming up in November.  What I'm saying is they need to actually get organized now, do a damn whip count, and either shit or get off the pot to make sure a shutdown doesn't backfire on their vulnerable Senators.

What are they supposed to do? I have the news on right now, here in my frozen office. What THE FUCK are they supposed to do? Schumer and Pelosi ARE whipping votes, they can't help it Manchin is a fucking coward at the end of the day. Maybe he'll be primaried if he betrays the party.

Just because they aren't going on Fox news to expose themselves to lies and potential gotcha questions doesn't mean they aren't doing something.

Sometimes the right play is to lie low, it's important to be rational about this. Republicans aren't letting Democrats negotiate at all, let alone in good faith, because Paul Ryan is currently watching his political career go up in flames while the freakshows at the farthest right try and demand 'no amnesty'.

You do know that it's actually considered a big breach of conduct to walk into the other party's side of the building without invitation right? It's literally like going into the other team's locker room during halftime.

And since Paul Ryan is busy in his 'locker room' trying to get the special teams guys to come back out for the 2nd half and Mitch McConnell is openly demanding that Trump give him actual policies around which he can work in the coaches office as we speak.

Not to mention, a scratch poll on CNN just showed that 55 percent of Dems are fully in favor of shutting down the government, and that's without the 'messaging' you think is required.

[ants]

If the Dems get Chip, and all the Re pubs get is one month of funding, how isn’t that a win?

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

What are they supposed to do? I have the news on right now, here in my frozen office. What THE FUCK are they supposed to do? Schumer and Pelosi ARE whipping votes, they can't help it Manchin is a fucking coward at the end of the day. Maybe he'll be primaried if he betrays the party.

...

Not to mention, a scratch poll on CNN just showed that 55 percent of Dems are fully in favor of shutting down the government, and that's without the 'messaging' you think is required.

They don't need Manchin.  Hell they don't need any of their vulnerable members if they keep everyone else.  What Schumer and Durbin need to do is get a whip count on the 49 members of their caucus.  Knowing Schumer, I'm sure he already has.  So, now make a decision if you're going to go through with a shutdown, and decide what the conditions are, and make sure 41 of the 49 are on board with both.  Then go out and explain that to the American people so as to make sure you have much more than 55% support from Democrats.

I don't think there's any strategic use in "lying low."

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

They don't need Manchin.  Hell they don't need any of their vulnerable members if they keep everyone else.  What Schumer and Durbin need to do is get a whip count on the 49 members of their caucus.  Knowing Schumer, I'm sure he already has.  So, now make a decision if you're going to go through with a shutdown, and decide what the conditions are, and make sure 41 of the 49 are on board with both.  Then go out and explain that to the American people so as to make sure you have much more than 55% support from Democrats.

I don't think there's any strategic use in "lying low."

We're on the same page, we're just disagreeing on tactics now. That's fine.

Personally, I want them to wait until tomorrow at like noon and lay out their position. 'The American people want DACA, bipartisan support is not even questionable. We want DACA. We want to fund the government, we won't be strong armed against the will of the people.'

That's all they have to do.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

That's all they have to do.

Yeah I'm watching Ed Markey on Morning Joe right and he's both placing responsibility on the GOP and being crystal clear he will not blink on DACA.  That's what I'm talkin bout.  Of course, he had to ruin my goodwill by dropping a Belichick reference in there.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, dmc515 said:

Yeah I'm watching Ed Markey on Morning Joe right and he's both placing responsibility on the GOP and being crystal clear he will not blink on DACA.  That's what I'm talkin bout.  Of course, he had to ruin my goodwill by dropping a Belichick reference in there.

Yeah, they've been doing that. It's been all over CNN for the last five days. Where you been man?

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Yeah, they've been doing that. It's been all over CNN for the last five days. Where you been man?

Honestly?  Running automated textual analysis on executive orders.  It's all the the rage!

[Jace, Extat]

9 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Honestly?  Running automated textual analysis on executive orders.  It's all the the rage!

You had me at 'Honestly'

[Jace, Extat]

Two Scoops himself just scuttled the stopgap bill that Ryan has been scrambling to put together

[Fez]

1 hour ago, ants said:

If the Dems get Chip, and all the Re pubs get is one month of funding, how isn’t that a win?

CHIP is something quite a lot (though certainly not all) Republicans want as well (remember, Hatch co-authored the original bill that created CHIP), so it's not really a "win" for either side. Ryan put it in the bill to try to get both Democrats and the Republicans who care who are from states that are already being affected by the loss of Federal funding.

The two main things that would be wins for Democrats would be that the sequestration cap on domestic spending gets raised by the same amount that the cap on military spending raises, and if there's a DACA deal.

[Maithanet]

12 minutes ago, Fez said:

CHIP is something quite a lot (though certainly not all) Republicans want as well (remember, Hatch co-authored the original bill that created CHIP), so it's not really a "win" for either side.

This is what is so frustrating, is this pattern seems to be playing out over and over again.  Republicans threaten or take away some vital government function like CHIP, debt ceiling, net neutrality, etc.  Democrats and their constituents are pissed because they like that program and want it back.  Then Republicans want to "negotiate" to get that program reinstated. 

WTF?  Why Republican constituents don't care about things like CHIP or net neutrality makes no sense to me.  It's like they prefer a government that is actively hostile to them. 

[Dr. Pepper]

6 hours ago, felice said:

Yeah, I was a bit bothered by that conversation. There's more than enough (like, way, way more than enough!) to criticise Trump for without getting in to his appearance. The girther thing is tricky, though; it's very well deserved pun, and the issue isn't about what he actually weighs, it's about whether his medical report as a whole can be trusted or not (the claims about his mental health being of the most serious public interest), via an extremely easy-to-test indicator. But the legitimate concerns here clearly do overlap closely with unreasonable fat-shaming.

I agree, the focus on the weight and height is important because it indicates that other aspects of his medical report are likely to be false.  But when it becomes just a pun for a fat person, it gets gross.  

3 hours ago, Inigima said:

"Girther" was coined because of Trump's backing of birtherism. It rhymes. That's all.

Yeah, sure, cool pun dude bro.  But that's not all it is.  It's still actually fat shaming.  It serves to remove the questions about the accuracy of his overall health report and instead focus entirely on the weight issue.  

[Dr. Pepper]

9 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

WTF?  Why Republican constituents don't care about things like CHIP or net neutrality makes no sense to me.  It's like they prefer a government that is actively hostile to them. 

Because Republicans don't stand for anything.  As long as women don't get to make their own health decisions and they're working to stick it to the gays, Republican voters wouldn't care if they were actively being marched en masse to the gulags.  In fact, they'd find ways to say that the gulags are a great idea and the economy will do so well.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I know I participated in the "Trump is so fucking disgustingly ugly" conversation, but this talk about his weight and calling it girtherism has a lot of fat shaming components to it.  

Normally I’d agree that you shouldn’t fat shame someone, but Trump has such a long history of fat shaming women so it feels a bit like karma for him.

Quote

But it's the nature of conservative evangelicals.  When you put imaginary creatures ahead of anything - including politics and science - you're naturally going to come up with this sort of hypocrisy.  Their imaginary world will operate in any way they need it to operate at any given time.  You're pointing out the hypocrisy to people who already understand that it's all stupidly ridiculous.

That’s kind of the point though. You want to reinforce that they’re hypocrites to everyone who isn’t a social conservative.