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Kandrax

Tower of the hand loathed

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1. I had to look up Red Walder in the wiki, because I couldn't recall anything in particular he'd done. Turns out he's Cleos' kid brother, and--what? 15? and a page at Casterly Rock. Maybe folks were mixing him up with Black Walder or Little Walder?

2. Good question. Rorge is entirely loathsome. Although at least he's consistent. You don't really expect anything good from him, ever.

3. Meryn Trant killed Syrio Forel (and thereby put himself into Arya's prayer), beat Sansa bloody for Joffrey and wasn't the least bothered by it, and provided cherry-picked testimony against Tyrion at his trial for regicide. He's pretty vile, really.

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41 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Third: why do some readers hate Meryn Trant?

Why would anyone like him?  He's a sadistic child-beater with no sense of honor or desire to uphold his oaths.

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1 hour ago, cpg2016 said:

Why would anyone like him?  He's a sadistic child-beater with no sense of honor or desire to uphold his oaths.

I would have thought Boros Blount would be on there. He does the same things as Trant, and while Trant doesn't show that he likes it, Boros actively gets a kick out of beating Sansa.

And Sansa is more hated than Balon Greyjoy, Craster, Alliser Thorne and Vargo Hoat? Who makes this list? Craster's (both versions) on TVTropes' list of Complete Monsters, the most despicable and depraved characters, along with Joffrey, Ramsay (both versions), King Aerys II (book), Gregor Clegane (both versions), Walder Frey (show), Rorge (books), Karl Tanner, Maegor the Cruel, Hugh Hammer, and Ulf the White.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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34 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

OK I read the list.  It seems to be a simple popularity poll.  Not a very good one at that.  

This. There are some really inexplicable placements and non-placements.

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8 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Why would anyone like him?  He's a sadistic child-beater with no sense of honor or desire to uphold his oaths.

I never said that you must like him. Also, we don't have evidence that he enjoys doing that.

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8 hours ago, Therae said:

1. I had to look up Red Walder in the wiki, because I couldn't recall anything in particular he'd done. Turns out he's Cleos' kid brother, and--what? 15? and a page at Casterly Rock. Maybe folks were mixing him up with Black Walder or Little Walder?

2. Good question. Rorge is entirely loathsome. Although at least he's consistent. You don't really expect anything good from him, ever.

3. Meryn Trant killed Syrio Forel (and thereby put himself into Arya's prayer), beat Sansa bloody for Joffrey and wasn't the least bothered by it, and provided cherry-picked testimony against Tyrion at his trial for regicide. He's pretty vile, really.

Had Barristan been in his place, what he would do?

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26 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

What about Syrio?

Oh he probably still would have killed him. Much as I like Barristan if he'd been ordered to catch Arya he would have obeyed and if that meant killing the Dancing Master that interfered then he would have done. But that's part of his development in Dance; his doubts over whether his dedication to his oaths was always a good thing. Trant; as far as we've seen; has no such doubts.

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As Curled FInger says, it's just a popularity poll based on the votes of just 205 persons, that probably did not even put much thought on their choices. The results are completely irrelevant and do not merit any kind of in-depth analysis.

6 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

Probably the same as what Arys Oakheart did.

If you mean that Barristan would have beaten Sansa Stark on Joffrey's orders, albeit not as strongly or viciously as the others (as Arys did), I completely disagree. With all his faults, Barristan in an honorable man. An honorable man does not hit twelve-year old girls.

56 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

What about Syrio?

Meryn Trant was stupid. He went to seize Arya in full armor, with demands and menacing words. Barristan would be smarter, and would have likely managed to capture Arya without bloodshed.

 

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18 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Why would anyone like him?  He's a sadistic child-beater with no sense of honor or desire to uphold his oaths.

That does not stop people on these forums from becoming fans

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4 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

As Curled FInger says, it's just a popularity poll based on the votes of just 205 persons, that probably did not even put much thought on their choices. The results are completely irrelevant and do not merit any kind of in-depth analysis.

If you mean that Barristan would have beaten Sansa Stark on Joffrey's orders, albeit not as strongly or viciously as the others (as Arys did), I completely disagree. With all his faults, Barristan in an honorable man. An honorable man does not hit twelve-year old girls.

Meryn Trant was stupid. He went to seize Arya in full armor, with demands and menacing words. Barristan would be smarter, and would have likely managed to capture Arya without bloodshed.

 

Honorable men also don't let men rape their wives or burn innocent men alive for imagined crimes. Barristan did. He saw his duty to his Kingsguard vows as more important than his knighthood vows. As much as I like Barristan, there is a point where loyalty and honour and adherence to vows can go too far. Barristan, I believe, is a prime example of this. He would hate it. He would think it wrong. But he would obey his Kings orders, even if he would pull his punches like Arys.

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1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

Now i'm completely indifferent to Trant, but in my opinion he and Ilyn least deserve to be on Arya's list.

Of everyone on there? Yeah, I agree on Ilyn. Trant...I kinda agree. I don't like him and I do think he really deserves to be on there just not for what Arya has him on the list for.

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3 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

Of everyone on there? Yeah, I agree on Ilyn. Trant...I kinda agree. I don't like him and I do think he really deserves to be on there just not for what Arya has him on the list for.

I am glad that you partialy agree with me.

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On 1/19/2018 at 0:25 AM, Kandrax said:

Had Barristan been in his place, what he would do?

Some options:

-Ignored Joffrey (as Sandor did the one time he was ordered to beat Sansa)

-Gone to Cersei, or more likely Tyrion, either of whom, as Regent and acting Hand, technically have more authority than a king in his minority, and neither of whom would have approved of beating Sansa (Tyrion did put a stop to it, and while Cersei let it go on, it only happened when she was not present)

-Not only refused, but also ordered all the KG to refuse, too. He was, after all, the Lord Commander.

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4 hours ago, Therae said:

Some options:

-Ignored Joffrey (as Sandor did the one time he was ordered to beat Sansa)

-Gone to Cersei, or more likely Tyrion, either of whom, as Regent and acting Hand, technically have more authority than a king in his minority, and neither of whom would have approved of beating Sansa (Tyrion did put a stop to it, and while Cersei let it go on, it only happened when she was not present)

-Not only refused, but also ordered all the KG to refuse, too. He was, after all, the Lord Commander.

What about Syrio?

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