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Ninclow

Do family bond equal 'diplomatic immunity'?

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Okay, probably a slightly misleading title, but I recently stumbled over this scene from Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, and it got me thinking about the execution of Janos Slynt at Castle Black. For the sake of argument, let's say that it's a time of war and conflict. Obviously, I can imagine in many cases that "the punishment of insubordination is death", and while I can easily imagine that no one want to execute members of their own family, but - if a lord's sibling or cousin serves their next of kin as a household guard, and get a command they find deplorable, if they had done the same as Phobeus - not necessarily jumped through the window and saved those inside, but just defied a direct order, or even if they did both - would being related by blood to the lord in some ways exempt them from punishment?

Also - I have loads of these little things I'm curious about, and if this board  as a whole is meant for more in-depths discussions, I apologize, and if there's a thread for small questions, I'd of course post there instead. ^^'

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Kinslaying is a vile sin, so terrible that one of the previous Hands was sent to the wall for having his cousin killed. Nobody wants you to kill your kin.

However your scenario would likely merely result in a demotion or perhaps a seizure of lands or lent possessions. Things that a head of a family has every right to do to their kin. 

Edited by ChuckPunch

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In theory, discipline should apply equally to everyone, else there is no justice.  Customs such as the taboo on kinslaying get in the way of true justice.  While I have a general dislike for the Starks and Jon Snow, I must admit a certain liking for Ned Stark.  Let me elaborate.  Let us pretend that Ned remained Warden of the North and Jon gets caught deserting the Watch.  Ned would take off his head.  If Balon had rebelled, Ned would take off Theon's head.  Consistency is important in order to reach justice.  Wishy-washy justice, justice compromised by personal relationships, is not true justice.  The execution of Janos Slynt became unjust when Jon released Mance Rayder.  Up until then, you can say it was harsh but just if Jon applies the same punishment in the future.  Slynt's offense was extremely minor in comparison to what Mance Rayder had done.  Let me remind you all that whatever offenses Slynt may have committed in King's Landing was washed away when he took his vows to serve the Watch.  Mance Rayder's crimes were never washed away and in my opinion, too offensive to forgive.  

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On 19/01/2018 at 9:13 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

In theory, discipline should apply equally to everyone, else there is no justice.  Customs such as the taboo on kinslaying get in the way of true justice.  While I have a general dislike for the Starks and Jon Snow, I must admit a certain liking for Ned Stark.  Let me elaborate.  Let us pretend that Ned remained Warden of the North and Jon gets caught deserting the Watch.  Ned would take off his head.  If Balon had rebelled, Ned would take off Theon's head.  Consistency is important in order to reach justice.  Wishy-washy justice, justice compromised by personal relationships, is not true justice.  The execution of Janos Slynt became unjust when Jon released Mance Rayder.  Up until then, you can say it was harsh but just if Jon applies the same punishment in the future.  Slynt's offense was extremely minor in comparison to what Mance Rayder had done.  Let me remind you all that whatever offenses Slynt may have committed in King's Landing was washed away when he took his vows to serve the Watch.  Mance Rayder's crimes were never washed away and in my opinion, too offensive to forgive.  

What's offensive about his crimes in any way? He deserted. That's it. As far as I recall he himself hasn't done any raiding or anything.

 

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3 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

What's offensive about his crimes in any way? He deserted. That's it. As far as I recall he himself hasn't done any raiding or anything.

 

Uniting all the wildlings and launching a perhaps the largest attack on the wall doesn't count? Especially when you consider as King Beyond the Wall, he's at the very minimum partially responsible for the conduct of his men.

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I would imagine it depends on the lord in question. Some would harsher and less forgiving than others. But I don't know if they would have them excuted. The Wall is an option I suppose. 

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Roose is quite certain Ramsey killed his true born son Domernic, then tells Theon that he was uncertain on how to deal with it. Which is one of the only times that I can think of in which Roose was indecisive. 

Ramsay killed him. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison. In the Vale, Domeric had enjoyed the company of Redfort's sons. He wanted a brother by his side, so he rode up the Weeping Water to seek my bastard out. I forbade it, but Domeric was a man grown and thought that he knew better than his father. Now his bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?

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6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Uniting all the wildlings and launching a perhaps the largest attack on the wall doesn't count? Especially when you consider as King Beyond the Wall, he's at the very minimum partially responsible for the conduct of his men.

Given the circumstances behind that attack I'd actually say no. If he's done it just for the sake of destroying the Night's Watch or launching a massive raid on the North then you'd be correct. But in this case they were actually running away and wanted to hide behind the Wall. The battle happened because everyone knew the NW wouldn't just let them pass. But that's just my take on it.

In universe, that attack would of course be held against him. But when I asked Widowmaker what he found so offensive I was asking about his own opinion not the characters opinions, so I assume that's what we're still discussing.

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