Jeor Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 What makes it all worse is the Australian team have been whingeing about all sorts of things with the "spirit of the game" with the sledging and crowd behaviour. Doesn't look too good now when there's firm evidence they've been cheating - massive hypocrisy. Cricket Australia will likely sack Smith for this, but given the "leadership group" knew about it, there probably isn't anyone clean to take it up. I suspect the ICC is going to investigate and find out exactly who was in that conversation at lunch. I'm pretty sure Lehmann must have known as well despite Smith's protestations. There is a chance he sent out Handscomb on the field to warn Bancroft purely based on what he saw on the TV footage, but it does seem like he would have known about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 I’m too angry to be amused, but Dominic Cork’s rant on Sky about Lehmann’s hypocrisy in putting in a complaint about the crowd in SA was notable. He said Lehmann should try being an Englishman on the boundary at the MCG. The other thing that pisses me off is how the Australians talk constantly about “The Line” while seemingly deciding that they alone have the right to decide where that is, and then whingeing when other teams retaliate. So, racist abuse is fine, abuse about personal appearance is fine, abuse about mental illness is fine, “mental disintegration” is fine, dropping the ball on a dismissed player is fine, but anything they don’t like is across “the Line”. i also have a problem with his press conference. He’s blamed the leadership group rather than taking personal responsibility and then said he was disappointed by what went on, as if it was an external event over which he had no control. Saying he would learn from this is truly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Hear, hear @Hereward. The only good thing about this has been the strong reaction (so far) in Australia. Based on public sentiment as I perceive it, I think it’s impossible for Smith to remain on as captain. Lehmann may be forced out regardless of his contribution, given his role in shaping team culture. One interesting slant on this story is that Australia may have been “pushing the envelope” in response to the seeming lack of consequences for Rabada’s physical contact. I don’t want to detract at all from the culpability of Australian players and management, but perhaps the ICC needs to take a long, hard think about how it responds to clearly unacceptable behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Shadow Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Waking up to this damn mess just ruined the weekend. Despite the evidence on screen, I thought maybe there was going to be an explanation (junk warmers for example :P) or maybe it was a panic move by Bancroft. But premeditated by the "leadership group"? Are you fucking serious? Smith has to step down. We cannot have a captain like that leading Australia. And everyone involved in the leadership group needs to stay the fuck away from any leadership role. Smith somehow thinks he is still the best person for the job and that somehow he will retain the captaincy? How fucking clueless is that? Completely unacceptable. Despite their obvious dickishness through out the last few decades, they could at least hold the high ground with the whole tough but fair gig. Now that is gone. This display of complete fucking incompetence ruined everything. And you already have people bringing up that they don't believe this is the first time (with no fucking evidence), but you can't even fight back because of this shit show. Once the reputation is ruined, it will stay ruined for the foreseeable future. What is so disappointing about this team, including non players, are that they are so mentally weak. The deal is simple, you can dish out whatever you want as long as you can take it when the opposition stick it to you. Warner has shown he can't handle it, specially as he sure likes to dish it out by all accounts. Smith has shown he can't handle the pressure of being captain. I understand there are a lot of pressure in being the Aussie captain, as the expectation are so high due to winning all the time in the past, but you need to be able to handle this pressure. Smith has shown he cannot. This is the second time (the first being the looking at dressing room saga). To be so desperate to win as to resort to cheating shows lack of character, grit and cool head needed to be a leader. And then you have this mess about putting in a formal complaint about the SA crowd. Aussie crowds are generally the worst. As a professional cricketers, specially Aussie cricketers, they need to suck it up. I didn't mind Warner losing his cool at the whole saga, but I didn't expect this much whinging from the players and staff. The whole player and staff leadership seems to have lost their plot at the pressure. They dish it out all the time, so now it's about learning how to take it and shut the fuck up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I’m not a fan of comparisons with the underarm incident. To me the two cases are completely distinguishable - one was a poor decision made in violation of the spirit of the game in a tense situation. The other is blatant, calculated rule-breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Paxter said: I’m not a fan of comparisons with the underarm incident. To me the two cases are completely distinguishable - one was a poor decision made in violation of the spirit of the game in a tense situation. The other is blatant, calculated rule-breaking. Well, the underarm ball was also technically a legal delivery. It's only flaw was that it violated the spirit of the game. Whereas changing the condition of the ball with a foreign substance is actually spelt out as illegal, and not just against the spirit of the game. The crowd complaint business is really silly. It makes the Australians look soft. As others have said, Australian crowds have been dishing it out for ages. Lehmann has even had a quote brought up about how he hoped the Aussie crowds would make Stuart Broad cry and run home. But on one level I honestly wonder whether the thin skin is really down to David Warner. He's clearly had a massive reaction to the comments about his wife (on one level fair enough, on another level he is one of the worst offenders the other way so suck it up). One can imagine Warner whingeing about it all the time and Lehmann et al being pressured into doing something about it. Anyway, James Sutherland (CA CEO) needs to sack the lot of them from the "leadership group". I assume the ICC is going to impose some heavy bans. Smith hid behind this "leadership group" but the effect now is that anyone in that group ought to be blacklisted from leadership in the future. Apparently the group is Smith, Warner, Lyon, Starc and Hazlewood. I don't know who's going to be the new unexpected captain - Shaun Marsh is probably the only one left. One fantastical news column wrote that Michael Clarke hasn't ruled out a return to Test cricket (he's only 36) but I doubt that would happen unless they're going to clean out half the team and bring in a whole group of debutants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 PS I think of Bancroft a bit like a Herschelle Gibbs in this situation. Junior player led astray by a conniving captain. Cronje's "holier than thou" approach is fairly apt for this situation too, although Cronje's match fixing was more serious than this. (By coincidence Cronje was South African but I don't mean this comment to draw any links or inferences). I really hope South Africa crush the Australian team in this match and the next one. At least they'll have a lot of motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 The comparisons with Cronje or Butt are certainly more apt than the comparisons with Greg Chappell. I don’t think the likes of Marsh or Khawaja are likely as a replacement. Someone like Paine might be better, or an experienced Shield captain like Bailey. Finch might be a smokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Paxter said: I’m not a fan of comparisons with the underarm incident. To me the two cases are completely distinguishable - one was a poor decision made in violation of the spirit of the game in a tense situation. The other is blatant, calculated rule-breaking. Agree entirely. The underarm is just so bizarre, given that Brian McKechnie was never going to hit those six runs anyway. This, on the other hand... Anyway, New Zealand have four sessions to get nine English wickets, with a lead of 331 runs. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Agree entirely. The underarm is just so bizarre, given that Brian McKechnie was never going to hit those six runs anyway. This, on the other hand... Anyway, New Zealand have four sessions to get nine English wickets, with a lead of 331 runs. Fingers crossed. Yup this is a new low point in Australian cricket. I’d argue it’s the lowest point in the game since the Salman Butt and co stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 This (and the New Zealand innings) is showing what a terrible performance it was from England in the first innings. Alright it was swinging on the first day but it’s a drop in pitch, there’s no demons in it. Oh, and Smith’s a dickhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Sanity has prevailed with Smith and Warner out of leadership positions at least for this test. One would hope that becomes permanent in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Has a captain ever been stood down mid-Test before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, Maltaran said: Has a captain ever been stood down mid-Test before? Surely it has happened at some point in history, but I can't recall one off the top of my head. Paine is the stand-in captain - perhaps a vision of things to come. He's lucky in that there's really only half an innings in the field to go in this match (and at the rate this is going, maybe only 1.5 sedate sessions before South Africa declare). You don't need a captain for the 4th innings batting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Warne, Julian and Border all think it was the wrong decision for the leaders to stand down mid-test. Seriously? They’re talking about “ascertaining the facts” - what more do you need to know to come to the conclusion that they aren’t fit to lead Australia in this match? Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Seven wickets. 237 run lead. We can do this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 41 minutes ago, Paxter said: Warne, Julian and Border all think it was the wrong decision for the leaders to stand down mid-test. Seriously? They’re talking about “ascertaining the facts” - what more do you need to know to come to the conclusion that they aren’t fit to lead Australia in this match? Ridiculous. Border just doesn't get it. He's now talking about how Australia will want to win this match with a record run chase and go down in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Shadow Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 41 minutes ago, Paxter said: Warne, Julian and Border all think it was the wrong decision for the leaders to stand down mid-test. Seriously? They’re talking about “ascertaining the facts” - what more do you need to know to come to the conclusion that they aren’t fit to lead Australia in this match? Ridiculous. Yup, so fucking dumb from those three. Only way their idiotic viewpoint makes sense is if Smith didn't have that presser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, Hereward said: Border just doesn't get it. He's now talking about how Australia will want to win this match with a record run chase and go down in history. Yeah I think he’s on a different planet right now. When he gets back to Australia and starts to gauge the reaction from the public, his tune will change very quickly. Among other things I’ve heard today on talkback radio: parents having to explain to their kids why their idol Smith has been disgraced, kids tearing posters of Smith off their walls and fans wanting the entire team brought home immediately and suspended. It’s over AB. @RBPL: I desperately hope NZ can get across the line. I was disappointed that KW did not declare much sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Yeah, using the term 'leadership group' is him trying to take the responsibility off himself a bit. I just don't understand why they thought they would get away with it. It also *seems* like Bancroft was told to do it mostly because he's a new player. When the DRS thing happened against India, I can put that down to a spur of the moment thing, but now I'm more inclined not to and believe Kohli when he said they had done it multiple times during the test. Do we see Smith losing the captaincy permanently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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