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Hidden Dragons: Parallels between Aegon V and Jon Snow


dornishdame

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Note:  This assumes R+L=J.

 

Aegon V Targaryen and Jon Snow: The ‘Hidden’ Dragons

 

The king we affectionately know as Egg and the 998th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch never met; King Aegon V perished at Summerhall in 259AC, almost 25 years before Jon Snow was born.  Aegon was the fourth son of King Maekar I, himself the fourth son of King Daeron II, and he spent his early years residing in royal palaces; Jon grew up at Winterfell as the bastard son of Lord Eddard Stark, part of – and yet set apart from – Lord Eddard’s family grouping. 

Aegon grew up amid the adulation and respect that came with being the son of a prince and grandson of a king; Jon grew up painfully aware of what it meant to be a bastard.  And yet, there are a number of clear parallels and links between the two characters in terms of personality, arc and themes.  Aside from that, the tragedy of Summerhall which saw the death of Aegon also saw the birth of Jon’s own father, Prince Rhaegar.

The theme of identity - specifically hidden identity – is common to both Aegon and Jon’s story arcs.  Aegon is disguised as ‘Egg’, the squire of a hedge knight, and is well aware of his true identity.  By travelling Westeros incognito, Aegon’s personality becomes shaped by the people he meets on the basis that he is simply “one of them”. 

Jon’s true identity, on the other hand, has been hidden not only from the outside world, but from Jon himself.  Raised as the bastard son of Lord Eddard Stark, he hears no mention of the bed of blood in which Lyanna Stark died.  Jon’s lack of awareness of this disguise leads him to form a sense of self, an identity, that is based around being Lord Eddard’s son – and of being worthy of it.  Both Aegon and Jon are hidden dragons; ultimately Aegon removed his disguise, and it remains to be seen when – or even if – Jon will do the same.

Jon and Aegon are both perceptive personalities.  In his very first POV chapter in A Game of Thrones, Jon sees through the friendly masks of the visiting Lannisters, and tells Benjen of the visit Lord Eddard and King Robert made to the crypts that so angered Queen Cersei.  And in The Mystery Knight, Aegon is quick to realize that he and Ser Duncan have stumbled upon a tourney staged with rebellion in mind. 

As growing boys, however, they are not so perceptive of their adult selves.  The insistence Jon makes to Benjen that he doesn’t care about having a woman before joining the Watch is reminiscent of Aegon’s insistence to Ser Duncan that he would rather be a Kingsguard knight than marry a girl. 

If we start at the beginning of their leadership arcs, and look at the period before their rule began, even then we can see some similarities.  In both The Sworn Sword and The Mystery Knight, Aegon repeatedly suggests to Dunk that they “use the boot”; in short, in their dealings with the Red Widow and at the ferry, Aegon advocates using his family name to get ahead, take shortcuts and break down barriers that stand in his way. 

Almost immediately after arriving at Castle Black, Jon thinks that his familial ties to Benjen are more than enough to involve him in his uncle’s ranging.  Similarly, there is a sense of snobbery as a result of their family ties.  In The Sworn Sword, Aegon is aghast at first when ordered to serve the trainees:

"We'll see how many men turn up at the tower . . . but whether it's five or fifty, you'll need to do for them as well."

Egg looked indignant. "I have to serve smallfolk?"

"Not serve. Help. We need to turn them into fighters." If the Widow gives us time enough. "If the gods are good, a few will have done some soldiering before, but most will be green as summer grass, more used to holding hoes than spears. Even so, a day may come when our lives depend on them. How old were you when you first took up a sword?" (The Sworn Sword)

And, in A Game of Thrones, Jon initially thinks himself better than the recruits he trains with.

"They're not my brothers," Jon snapped. "They hate me because I'm better than they are."

"No. They hate you because you act like you're better than they are. They look at you and see a castle-bred bastard who thinks he's a lordling." The armorer leaned close. "You're no lordling. Remember that. You're a Snow, not a Stark. You're a bastard and a bully."

"A bully?" Jon almost choked on the word. The accusation was so unjust it took his breath away. "They were the ones who came after me. Four of them."

“Four that you've humiliated in the yard. Four who are probably afraid of you. I've watched you fight. It's not training with you. Put a good edge on your sword, and they'd be dead meat; you know it, I know it, they know it. You leave them nothing. You shame them. Does that make you proud?"

Jon hesitated. He did feel proud when he won. Why shouldn't he? But the armorer was taking that away too, making it sound as if he were doing something wrong. "They're all older than me," he said defensively.

"Older and bigger and stronger, that's the truth. I'll wager your master-at-arms taught you how to fight bigger men at Winterfell, though. Who was he, some old knight?" (Jon III in Thrones)

In both, there is a sense of superiority and entitlement – a belief that their blood should be enough to get what they want, and they forget the advantages their upbringing has given them before being swiftly brought down to earth by Ser Duncan the Tall and Donal Noye respectively, two men who have not enjoyed the same advantages Aegon and Jon did.

But, as Benjen tells Jon, in the Night’s Watch “a man gets only what he earns” – and as our two hidden dragons reach manhood, they have grown out of that aspect of their immature personalities.  Indeed, immediately after they are given pause for thought in the incidents recounted above, Aegon speaks of swapping knowledge with the smallfolk, and Jon makes peace with his new brothers, offering to help them train.

Aside from Rhaegar, who met neither Aegon nor Jon, the two are linked through another Targaryen both were close to at different times of his life…….Maester Aemon.  As brother to Aegon and mentor then advisor to Jon, Aemon knew both men well – and sadly died not knowing that he was blood kin to the Lord Commander he left behind at Castle Black. At the beginning of A Dance with Dragons, before he leaves Castle Black for Oldtown, Aemon gives Jon one final piece of advice – the same advice that he gave Aegon before departing for the Night’s Watch in 233AC.

“Allow me to give my lord one last piece of counsel,” the old man had said, “the same counsel that I once gave my brother when we parted for the last time.  He was three-and-thirty when the Great Council chose him to mount the Iron Throne.  A man grown with sons of his own, yet in some ways still a boy.  Egg had an innocence to him, a sweetness we all loved.  Kill the boy within you, I told him the day I took ship for the Wall.  It takes a man to rule.  An Aegon, not an Egg.  Kill the boy and let the man be born.” The old man felt Jon’s face. “You are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a crueller one, I fear.  You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done.  Kill the boy, Jon Snow.  Winter is almost upon us.  Kill the boy and let the man be born.” (Jon II in Dance)

Thus, as both men embark upon their rule, they receive the same advice from Aemon.  To “kill the boy”.  And this advice does stick with both men; Aegon fought off rebellion and sought to bring dragons back to the world, and Jon repeatedly thinks of Aemon’s words throughout A Dance with Dragons.  We do not see this advice giving on page; instead as Aemon departs, Jon recalls the discussion they had the night before. 

Interestingly, in the same chapter as Jon recalls this, he also contemplates the former King-beyond-the-Wall Raymund Redbeard. Jon tells us that this king lived during the time of his grandfather’s grandfather.  As Jon only knows of one side of his family at this stage, he can only be referring to Lord Rickard Stark’s grandfather.  Although this is the case, Aemon’s advice ringing in his ears pulls us towards Aegon – also Jon’s grandfather’s grandfather and alive during the reign of Raymund Redbeard.  It is also interesting that neither Aegon nor Jon seizes power; Aegon is acclaimed king at a Great Council, and Jon elected Lord Commander by his sworn brothers.  They are chosen for leadership when other options exist.

Much earlier than this in the series, at the beginning of A Clash of Kings, Jeor Mormont discusses Aemon’s heritage with Jon.  Although Jon already has a grounding in Aemon’s family history (from their discussion in A Game of Thrones regarding duty vs family), Jeor gives a brief run-down of the Targaryen family tree, ending with Aemon’s brother. Aegon.

Jon was not entirely innocent of the history of the realm; his own maester had seen to that. "That was the year of the Great Council," he said. "The lords passed over Prince Aerion's infant son and Prince Daeron's daughter and gave the crown to Aegon."

"Yes and no. First they offered it, quietly, to Aemon. And quietly he refused. The gods meant for him to serve, not to rule, he told them. He had sworn a vow and would not break it, though the High Septon himself offered to absolve him. Well, no sane man wanted any blood of Aerion's on the throne, and Daeron's girl was a lackwit besides being female, so they had no choice but to turn to Aemon's younger brother-Aegon, the Fifth of His Name. Aegon the Unlikely, they called him, born the fourth son of a fourth son. Aemon knew, and rightly, that if he remained at court those who disliked his brother's rule would seek to use him, so he came to the Wall. And here he has remained, while his brother and his brother's son and his son each reigned and died in turn, until Jaime Lannister put an end to the line of the Dragonkings."

"King," croaked the raven. The bird flapped across the solar to land on Mormont's shoulder.

"King," it said again, strutting back and forth.

"An easy word to say. An easy word to like."

“King," the bird said again.

"I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord."

"The realm has three kings already, and that's two too many for my liking." Mormont stroked the raven under the beak with a finger, but all the while his eyes never left Jon Snow. (Jon I in Clash)

Again we have another (though admittedly more tenuous) link between the two.  Aegon is the last named king before the raven says ‘King’.  In this scene, Jeor Mormont stares at Jon after the raven repeatedly says that word.  While this is often used as evidence in arguments over Jon’s future role in the series, it is also important to look in and around chapters in which links are made between two characters, or reference made to historical events, to find more information.  Information that is often hidden.  And it is Aegon’s name specifically that is followed by the raven’s squawking.

It is also notable that the raven says king three times after Mormont has spoken of Aegon V.  After Aegon V reigned, two more Targaryens sat the Iron Throne before Robert's Rebellion won it for House Baratheon, Jaehaerys II and Aerys II.  With Rhaegar's death, his claim passed to his children and only one remained following the death of Aerys - Jon.  Jon would be the third Targaryen king after Aegon V. 

The advice given above by Aemon is imparted as both Aegon and Jon embark on their rule.  When looking at the leadership style of the two men, some similarities and parallels emerge from the page.  To start with both men are, in different ways, unlikely leaders.  Aegon was born the fourth son of a fourth son and yet rose to be king; Jon, though in a meritocratic organisation that favours the rise of those of Stark blood, is a mere sixteen years old when he becomes Lord Commander ahead of older men with far more experience in leadership and rule in the Night’s Watch. 

That is not to say that either man had no leadership skills – something patently not the case – simply that the role they take up is not one that they always believed they would undertake. 

Aegon’s elder brother is sent to the Citadel in part as a result of Daeron II’s belief that too many heirs are as dangerous as too few.  From that – and Aegon’s place in the line of succession – we can determine that kingship was not something he believed to be in his future for most of his life.  While Jon speaks of wanting to join the Night’s Watch in his first POV chapter in A Game of Thrones, he dreams of being a ranger rather than Lord Commander.  The idea of rising this far in the Watch does not occur to Jon until Sam suggests it as a reason for his being named Jeor Mormont’s steward.

If we are to look at their leadership in more depth - and to the policies of their rule – we can begin to see some parallels.  Neither Aegon nor Jon had a tendency towards hypocrisy, and knew that those in glass houses should not be the first to throw a stone.  As a man who married for love, Aegon did not disown the children that broke the betrothals he had arranged for them to follow their hearts as he had done. 

Equally, Jon recognizes the danger of Hardin’s Tower, where the spearwives at Castle Black are garrisoned in A Dance with Dragons.  Although the Night’s Watch vows forbid sworn brothers from taking wives, Jon knows that Hardin’s presents him with a complex problem, in part because he did not hold to his vows with Ygritte.  While those brothers trying to take a spearwife by force are imprisoned in the ice cells, Jon thinks to himself that: “If he could not hold to his own vows, how could he expect more of his brothers?” 

Both are human leaders, and prone to human weaknesses. And if we consider Jon’s attempts to rescue the girl he believes to be Arya from the clutches of Ramsay Bolton, and the fact that – save the removal of the Prince of Dragonflies from the order of succession – Aegon’s children were not punished for marrying for love, we can see that their families form a great part of that human weakness.

The political reign of Aegon was characterised by the reforms he passed that favoured the smallfolk rather than the high lords of Westeros.  These reforms – of which we sadly know too little – were apparently controversial.

He enacted numerous reforms and granted rights and protections to the commons that they had never known before, but each of these measures provoked fierce opposition and sometimes open defiance amongst the lords (The World of Ice and Fire)

The lack of support he gained from his immediate vassals made each step harder, and prevented Aegon from enacting the very real change he wished for.  Similarly, Jon Snow’s tenure as Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch is fraught with conflict as he attempts to institute controversial policies that ultimately divide the organization he leads.  His decisions to permit the wildlings to pass through the Wall, and to install Leathers as Master-at-Arms are met with horror on the part of the officer class – particularly Bowen Marsh, his First Steward. 

A parallel can also be made between Aegon’s support for the smallfolk and Jon’s respect for the wildlings.  Both were raised with little real knowledge of these groups in society; Aegon was raised at Court – somewhere smallfolk are rarely to be found – and Jon’s limited knowledge of the wildlings came from the stories of Old Nan.  And yet, after the years Aegon spent as squire to a Hedge Knight and Jon’s time as undercover agent, both come to respect these groups and to value them.  It is in part this respect that leads Aegon to enact his reforms and Jon to work with, rather than against, the wildlings.  They see them as people needing protection.

“They might be killed, ser. Wet Wat is still half a boy. Will Barleycorn is to be married the next time the septon comes. And Big Rob doesn’t even know his left foot from his right.” (The Sworn Sword)

Every day he spent among the wildlings made what he had to do that much harder. He was going to have to find some way to betray these men, and when he did they would die. He did not want their friendship, any more than he wanted Ygritte's love. And yet . . . the Thenns spoke the Old Tongue and seldom talked to Jon at all, but it was different with Jarl's raiders, the men who'd climbed the Wall. Jon was coming to know them despite himself: gaunt, quiet Errok and gregarious Grigg the Goat, the boys Quort and Bodger, Hempen Dan the ropemaker. The worst of the lot was Del, a horsefaced youth near Jon's own age, who would talk dreamily of this wildling girl he meant to steal. "She's lucky, like your Ygritte. She's kissed by fire."

Jon had to bite his tongue. He didn't want to know about Del's girl or Bodger's mother, the place by the sea that Henk the Helm came from, how Grigg yearned to visit the green men on the Isle of Faces, or the time a moose had chased Toefinger up a tree. He didn't want to hear about the boil on Big Boil's arse, how much ale Stone Thumbs could drink, or how Quort's little brother had begged him not to go with Jarl.  (Jon V in Storm)

And the respect Aegon and Jon come to have for the smallfolk and wildlings respectively is sneered at and used against them.  More than once, Aegon is described as “half a peasant” and Jon as “half a wildling”.  Respect begins to grow and people are generally assessed on merit rather than birth.  Aegon raises a hedge knight, Ser Duncan the Tall, to be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and Jon selects staff – like Giant and Satin – based on ability and potential rather than birth. 

Giant was waiting in the armoury. His real name was Bedwyck. At a hair and a half over five feet he was the smallest man in the Night's Watch. Jon came directly to the point. "We need more eyes along the Wall. Way-castles where our patrols can get out of the cold and find hot food and a fresh mount. I am putting a garrison in Icemark and giving you command of it."

Giant put the tip of his little finger in his ear to clean out the wax. "Command? Me? M'lord knows I'm just a crofter's get, on the Wall for poaching?"

"You've been a ranger for a dozen years. You survived the Fist of the First Men and Craster's Keep, and came back to tell the tale. The younger men look up to you." (Jon II in Dance)

Both Aegon and Jon also come under fire from their political opponents for their generosity towards the smallfolk and the wildlings respectively.  Aegon is criticized when, during a long and hard winter, he sends vital food supplies to the North to aid the smallfolk struggling to get through the winter.  Bowen Marsh is only one of many brothers of the Night’s Watch to grudge the wildlings every morsel Jon orders him to hand over. 

Both men also have a tendency to rub their opponents up the wrong way, and store up old grievances for the future.  Jon did not consider Chett when trying to obtain for Sam the position of Maester Aemon’s steward; nor did he consider the erosion of the goodwill his men held towards him as his wildling policies progressed. 

The lords of Westeros were so concerned about Aegon’s political leanings that they had tried to convince his elder brother, Aemon, to forswear his vows as a master to take up the crown.  Aegon did nothing when he ascended the throne to placate such men.

Aegon's reign was a challenging one, starting as it did in the midst of a winter that had lasted three years and showed no signs of abating. There was starvation and suffering in the North, as there had been a hundred years before, in the long winter that reigned from 130 to 135 AC. King Aegon, always concerned for the welfare of the poor and weak, did what he could to increase the flow of grain and other food to the North, but some felt he did too much in this regard.

His rule was also quickly tested by those whose affairs he had meddled in too often as a prince, attempting to reduce their rights and privileges. (The World of Ice and Fire)

It is the problems caused by his reforms that leads Aegon to ponder what he could achieve with dragons, and eventually to Summerhall.  Equally, his respect for the wildlings is partly responsible for Jon’s policies towards them as Lord Commander - though his desire to avoid adding them to the army of his true enemy is also important.  These policies are the vehicle through which, throughout A Dance with Dragons, the officer class at Castle Black grows increasingly hostile towards Jon, and disenchanted with his leadership.  

But, it is ultimately their desire to protect their families (and the love they hold for those families) that is at the root of Aegon and Jon’s downfalls.  Aegon makes enemies rather than friends among the Lords of Westeros when three of his children marry against his wishes – Duncan to the peasant girl Jenny of Oldstones, and Jaehaerys and Shaera to each other – and a fourth, Daeron, refuses to marry at all.  While the Baratheons are placated by the offer of Princess Rhaelle, they still lose Lord Lyonel Baratheon, the Laughing Storm, in single combat to Ser Duncan the Tall.  Additionally, two of the other losers in the breaking of betrothals – Luthor Tyrell and Olenna Redwyne – marry each other.  This does not, nor does any match Celia Tully may have made, make up for the loss of an opportunity to marry into the royal family. 

Had these four children married according to their father’s wishes, he would have had allies to help cushion the blow of his reforms.  Instead, they isolated him, and led Aegon to reflect more and more on what could be had only he had dragons.  These reflections would ultimately contribute to Summerhall, and the deaths of Aegon and his close kin.      

In spite of the distinct lack of support for his wildling policies, Jon Snow is ultimately undone by his use of the wildlings to his own ends – and for the position his abuse of his command has placed the Night’s Watch in.  When he sends a disguised Mance Rayder to Winterfell to rescue the girl he believes to be his younger half-sister Arya, Jon breaks his vow not to involve himself in the political and dynastical world of Westeros; he also involves himself with the family members he should have left behind when he joined the Night’s Watch.  He is Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch now, not The Bastard of Winterfell, and should act accordingly.  Out of love for his half-sister, he does not.  His actions have consequences.  And is growing isolation at Castle Black throughout A Dance with Dragons mirrors that of Aegon V following the marital decisions of his children.

We are told from A Game of Thrones onwards of the connection between the Stark in Winterfell and the Night’s Watch.  It is clear in A Clash of Kings that Qhorin Halfhand believes if help will come from anywhere, it will be the Stark in Winterfell; the Warden of the North is a key source of support for the Night’s Watch.  But, the Boltons rule in Winterfell and throughout the North now.  And, aside from oath-breaking, in involving himself in what is effectively the kidnap of Roose Bolton’s good daughter, Jon has brought the wroth of the man perceived as their most important ally down on the Night’s Watch.

There are, therefore, clear parallels between Aegon V Targaryen and Jon Snow in terms of theme, personality and character.  As to what these parallels mean for Jon’s character arc moving forward, it is difficult to say.  They could merely be further hints of Jon’s paternal heritage, or reach as far as foreshadowing his reign as a very unlikely king.  

Aegon died when he tried to awake dragons from stone at Summerhall – if Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, then he may very well be the dragon awoken from stone.  Should he survive the War for the Dawn, Jon could find himself rebuilding the world left behind; he could find himself fighting for the smallfolk and reform in the same way that Aegon did, without peace. 

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@dornishdame, it warms my heart to see you in top form once again.  That was a lovely analysis.  You hit a home run in drawing real comparisons between Aegon the Unlikely and Jon Snow, particularly with regard to their respective interactions and sympathies with the smallfolk and Wildlings.  I wonder how many new copies of Dunc and Egg will sell after new readers enjoy your comparison.  

In ASOIAF the kings are drunks and madmen.   It's easy to forget The Targaryans are the family who unified the land and put so many of the high lords in their places.  They were most definitely not all Aerys II or Aegon IV.  We do tend to love or hate Jon Snow, don't we?   I hope that as people enjoy your topic that they will open up to the hope and perhaps sobriety of Jon's future.  We all have our favored houses, I'm wearing my Greyjoy shirt right now, but the story transcends families and mottos.  It is a tale about hard rule in bleak times where men who are not knights are permitted little fame or fortune if not born to it.  

Bravo.  

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Egg, a royal prince who later become King Aegon V, was mistaken as a stableboy.

And Jon?  It was his thought that gives away the parallel...

Queen Selyse descended upon Castle Black... He met the queen’s party by the stables, accompanied by Satin, Bowen Marsh, and half a dozen guards in long black cloaks. It would never do to come before this queen without a retinue of his own, if half of what they said of her was true. She might mistake him for a stableboy and hand him the reins of her horse.

 

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19 hours ago, IceFire125 said:

She might mistake him for a stableboy

I think it is a reflection of Jon's low self-esteem (which contrasts with Egg's pride).

In this case, I think it is more a transversal than a parallel; a point where stories with different trajectories end up overlapping.

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25 minutes ago, Ckram said:

I think it is a reflection of Jon's low self-esteem (which contrasts with Egg's pride).

In this case, I think it is more a transversal than a parallel; a point where stories with different trajectories end up overlapping.

The passage above, Jon was not in low-esteem, in fact, he made sure that he's surrounded by his own retinue (since he's a Lord Commander) so that Queen Selyse wouldn't mistake him for a stableboy.  This shows that he has pride, at least in front of the queen.  Because from what he's heard, she's the type to generalize and look down on others before her.  Jon wanna make sure that he stands out and not just a regular brother of the NW.

The point was that his thoughts give away that subtlety, the "call back" to a remembrance of another individual that was mistaken for a stableboy.  This is classic GRRM's three-level-type of revelation.  That individual was a hidden Targaryen prince and Jon is very much a hidden Targaryen prince as well.  That is the core point that GRRM hearkened and called us, the readers, to remember, the certain stableboy individual in that very thought by Jon. 

 

 

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@dornishdame that was such a fun read. I often wondered if Jon reminded Maester Aemon of Aegon because of some of the parallels that exist between the two characters. 

On 1/20/2018 at 6:54 PM, dornishdame said:

Again we have another (though admittedly more tenuous) link between the two.  Aegon is the last named king before the raven says ‘King’.  In this scene, Jeor Mormont stares at Jon after the raven repeatedly says that word.  While this is often used as evidence in arguments over Jon’s future role in the series, it is also important to look in and around chapters in which links are made between two characters, or reference made to historical events, to find more information.  Information that is often hidden.  And it is Aegon’s name specifically that is followed by the raven’s squawking.

About this, 

Quote

"The realm has three kings already, and that's two too many for my liking." Mormont stroked the raven under the beak with a finger, but all the while his eyes never left Jon Snow. It made him feel odd.
"My lord, why have you told me this, about Maester Aemon?"
"Must I have a reason?"
Mormont shifted in his seat, frowning. "Your brother has been crowned King in the North. You and Aemon have that in common. A king for a brother."
(Jon I, ACOK 6)

I don't think we are done with the things that Maester Aemon may have told Sam during their journey from Braavos to Oldtown, when his mind started "wandering", and I just wonder if Maester Aemon didn't suspect something with Jon and spoke to Mormont about it. 

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50 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

@dornishdame that was such a fun read. I often wondered if Jon reminded Maester Aemon of Aegon because of some of the parallels that exist between the two characters. 

About this, 

I don't think we are done with the things that Maester Aemon may have told Sam during their journey from Braavos to Oldtown, when his mind started "wandering", and I just wonder if Maester Aemon didn't suspect something with Jon and spoke to Mormont about it. 

Whatever the raven says is of great interest to me.  Let's face it, this bird isn't like any other raven. 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"Do all the birds have singers in them?"
"All," Lord Brynden said. "It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin."
So what of birds who have shared a skin, like Mormont's Raven.  He does't just imitate; he wakes out of a dead sleep to instruct Jon that Othor must be burned when he sees the lamp in Jon's hands.   I think someone is riding this bird but more likely, it's someone in their second life.
So when the bird says King when Aegon's name is mentioned; is he talking about Jon or Egg?  In context, this is who Aemon is talking about and he is dispensing the same wisdom to Jon that he imparted to Aegon. 
I've always wondered if this was a slip of the tongue and if Mormont is talking about Ned and Robert, or just Robert:
Quote

A Game of Thrones - Jon VII

Jon remained standing. "It's my father, isn't it?"

The Old Bear tapped the letter with a finger. "Your father and the king," he rumbled. "I won't lie to you, it's grievous news. I never thought to see another king, not at my age, with Robert half my years and strong as a bull." He took a gulp of wine. "They say the king loved to hunt. The things we love destroy us every time, lad. Remember that. My son loved that young wife of his. Vain woman. If not for her, he would never have thought to sell those poachers."

 

 

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11 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Whatever the raven says is of great interest to me.  Let's face it, this bird isn't like any other raven.

I agree with this. Mormont's raven is no ordinary raven. We don't really know where it comes from, if Jeor brought him with him when he took the black or if the raven was at the Wall well before then.

It could be someone on their second life or that the bird is being warged, which would be sort of ironic since the discussion ends with Aegon, the king who sent Bloodraven to the Wall. I don't think he was sent to the Wall because of the death of Aenys Blackfyre alone. The attempt at hatching the dragons at Summerhall happens seven years after he goes missing beyond the Wall and I think that could be important.

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6 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I agree with this. Mormont's raven is no ordinary raven. We don't really know where it comes from, if Jeor brought him with him when he took the black or if the raven was at the Wall well before then.

It could be someone on their second life or that the bird is being warged, which would be sort of ironic since the discussion ends with Aegon, the king who sent Bloodraven to the Wall. I don't think he was sent to the Wall because of the death of Aenys Blackfyre alone. The attempt at hatching the dragons at Summerhall happens seven years after he goes missing beyond the Wall and I think that could be important.

It could be an interesting discussion for another thread!

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20 hours ago, IceFire125 said:

she's the type to generalize and look down on others before her.  Jon wanna make sure that he stands out and not just a regular brother of the NW.

Agreed.

20 hours ago, IceFire125 said:

The point was that his thoughts give away that subtlety, the "call back" to a remembrance of another individual that was mistaken for a stableboy.  [...] That individual was a hidden Targaryen prince and Jon is very much a hidden Targaryen prince as well.

I find it curious that you make such a connection with Egg in "The Hedge Knight" after what you said above.

When Dunk meets Egg at the beginning of the book, Dunk addresses Egg with relative courtesy (“Are you the stableboy?” [...] I’ll want my palfrey rubbed down. And oats for all three. Can you tend to them?”) and Egg responds with some disdain and stubbornness ("I could. If I wanted."). I don' imagine that this would be by far a good parallel to the meeting between Selyse and Jon.

However, when Aerion meets Dunk in front of the Ashford stables, Aerion acted with arrogance and contempt (“Boy, let go of that nag and see to my horse.”) while Dunk, a character with low self-esteem but bold, like Jon, struggled to look important (“I... m’lord, pardons, I’m no serving man either. I have the honor to be a knight.”). Here I find more similarities to Jon and Selyse.

Therefore, if I were looking in "The Hedge Knight" for a parallel to that event in ADWD, I would prefer the latter.

So, in this case, Jon is more Dunk than Egg.

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This is related to the discussion.  It's this quote that is making me still wanting Jon's Targaryen name to be 'Aemon' and not Aegon.  However, I'm at about 50/50 on both.  Regardless, it relates to Jon's royal connection with House Targaryen... a royal blood connection.

Maester Aemon sighed. “Have you heard nothing I’ve told you, Jon? Do you think you are the first?” He shook his ancient head, a gesture weary beyond words. “Three times the gods saw fit to test my vows. Once when I was a boy, once in the fullness of my manhood, and once when I had grown old. By then my strength was fled, my eyes grown dim, yet that last choice was as cruel as the first. My ravens would bring the news from the south, words darker than their wings, the ruin of my House, the death of my kin, disgrace and desolation. What could I have done, old, blind, frail? I was helpless as a suckling babe, yet still it grieved me to sit forgotten as they cut down my brother’s poor grandson, and his son, and even the little children

**Like Aemon, figuratively... Jon was literally helpless as a suckling babe.

 

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