How different was the wait between AFFC and ADWD?

[Kandrax]

I finished my first reading in december and despite that i am impatient to get sixth book.

[Gertrude]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The show doesn't fill a hole imo, the show is a hole! 

But are you watching?

I think the show started out great, and now it ... is this hole, I agree. I struggled to decide if I would watch these last few seasons, but I figured it would be hard to avoid spoilers and if I was going to be in any way spoiled, I'd rather it be first hand and not piecing it together from the bits of it that leaked through to me. Even though the story is not what I want or hope for when the books finally do arrive, it is something. It keeps me engaged and speculating and appreciating the books as I think a complete content drought wouldn't do.

[Lady Anna]

14 hours ago, Yukle said:

This wait between books is so much harder than the last simply because I'm changing - just as much as everyone else on Earth - and huge emotional investments in this series are not as strong as they once were. That's not to say that I don't like the series, I certainly do, just that I've had diminishing passion and enthusiasm. I'd like to think that the release of tWoW will reverse this, but it would be naive to think that I will have the same obsession that I once did.

The last time we had to wait, I was impatient - but in a good way. I was anticipating what was coming. Now, it's less intense. I'm just sad not to have read on, but I won't feel heartbroken if I never get to. It's as though I've had closure already, and that the fate of Westeros was simply never settled and decided.

Agree with everything you said. It's exactly how I feel as well. And I think the show definitely mitigated a lot of things during this wait, and the sad part is, that for a lot of people, it will make reading the next books redundant. Especially since there's not just one book missing, but two (or maybe three); TWOW hasn't come out yet, ADOS will only come out years after the show ended.

[Joy Hill]

21 hours ago, divica said:

Meereen had quite awkward things.

Like how many people are attacking and defending the city? And where are the elephants?

But I still don't understand why it took so much time. There are plenty of other events in the series where logistics, timing and such require just as much attention.

[Lord Lannister]

I guess I was "lucky" in a sense. Season 4 of the show had just aired when I gave in to a friend who had been pestering me for years to read the books. After reading all five, I binge watched all four seasons of the show just in time for season 5 to air, then reread everything again, so I had a good immersion into things without much of a wait. I finally read a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms last year, so I got a bit of a fix from that. Along with the sample chapters from Winds. I guess the question now is if we'll see season 8 of the show or Winds first. Of course that question was asked for season 7, season 6, etc. I'm just hoping Winds is a massive 1000 page novel with the wait we've had and all the stuff that needs to happen!

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Joy Hill said:

But I still don't understand why it took so much time. There are plenty of other events in the series where logistics, timing and such require just as much attention.

Martin has said that one of the issues he had was figuring out who had to arrive first and why etc, and that it took lots of reshuffling of PoVs and also rewrites related to that as well.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Meereenese_knot

"Now I can explain things. It was a confluence of many, many factors: lets start with the offer from Xaro to give Danyships, the refusal of which then leads to Qarth's declaration of war. Then there's the marriage of Daenerys to pacify the city. Then there's the arrival of the Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, there's the order of arrival of various people going her way (Tyrion, Quentyn, Victarion, Aegon, Marwyn, etc.), and then there's Daario, this dangerous sellsword and the question of whether Dany really wants him or not, there's the plague, there's Drogon's return to Meereen...

All of these things were balls I had thrown up into the air, and they're all linked and chronologically entwined. The return of Drogon to the city was something I explored as happening at different times. For example, I wrote three different versions of Quentyn's arrival at Meereen: one where he arrived long before Dany's marriage, one where he arrived much later, and one where he arrived just the day before the marriage (which is how it ended up being in the novel). And I had to write all three versions to be able to compare and see how these different arrival points affected the stories of the other characters. Including the story of a character who actually hasn't arrived yet."

[kissdbyfire]

6 hours ago, Gertrude said:

But are you watching?

Sorry, missed this earlier.

Nope, not for a couple of yrs now. Won't get into it here as per forum rules.

 

[Gertrude]

5 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

And I think the show definitely mitigated a lot of things during this wait, and the sad part is, that for a lot of people, it will make reading the next books redundant. Especially since there's not just one book missing, but two (or maybe three); TWOW hasn't come out yet, ADOS will only come out years after the show ended.

Yeah, I've been thinking about that and being sad about it for a while. Once the show is over, for so, so many people, the story will be over and this is how it happened. There will be no media articles or friends telling people - no, it didn't happen that way! The book is better!

eta: oops, forgot I was in the book forums

[divica]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Martin has said that one of the issues he had was figuring out who had to arrive first and why etc, and that it took lots of reshuffling of PoVs and also rewrites related to that as well.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Meereenese_knot

"Now I can explain things. It was a confluence of many, many factors: lets start with the offer from Xaro to give Danyships, the refusal of which then leads to Qarth's declaration of war. Then there's the marriage of Daenerys to pacify the city. Then there's the arrival of the Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, there's the order of arrival of various people going her way (Tyrion, Quentyn, Victarion, Aegon, Marwyn, etc.), and then there's Daario, this dangerous sellsword and the question of whether Dany really wants him or not, there's the plague, there's Drogon's return to Meereen...

All of these things were balls I had thrown up into the air, and they're all linked and chronologically entwined. The return of Drogon to the city was something I explored as happening at different times. For example, I wrote three different versions of Quentyn's arrival at Meereen: one where he arrived long before Dany's marriage, one where he arrived much later, and one where he arrived just the day before the marriage (which is how it ended up being in the novel). And I had to write all three versions to be able to compare and see how these different arrival points affected the stories of the other characters. Including the story of a character who actually hasn't arrived yet."

I think it makes sense because what happens in meereen and how long it takes will define how things will happen when danny arrives in westeros. He probably has his vision of the political situation upon danny's arrival and he has to coordinate the meereen timeline with that. In addition, it seems there are people all over the world deciding to travel to danny at diferent times. I understand it is complicated...

And we can t forget that grrm has said there will be a new dance of dragons. So at some point the dragons are going to get separated...

 

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, divica said:

I think it makes sense because what happens in meereen and how long it takes will define how things will happen when danny arrives in westeros. He probably has his vision of the political situation upon danny's arrival and he has to coordinate the meereen timeline with that. In addition, it seems there are people all over the world deciding to travel to danny at diferent times. I understand it is complicated...

Yeah, I get it too. It's an awful lot of balls up in the air, and all the chronology for all the characters etc to figure out. Must be insanely time-consuming!

1 minute ago, divica said:

And we can t forget that grrm has said there will be a new dance of dragons. So at some point the dragons are going to get separated...

 

Either that or more dragons or both! 

[Lady Anna]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

Yeah, I've been thinking about that and being sad about it for a while. Once the show is over, for so, so many people, the story will be over and this is how it happened. There will be no media articles or friends telling people - no, it didn't happen that way! The book is better!

eta: oops, forgot I was in the book forums

Yeah...And it's so funny cause after Dance was released and season 1 aired, some people thought Martin would release the next books quicker so that the show wouldn't catch up to him....oh sweet summer children. 

[divica]

7 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Yeah...And it's so funny cause after Dance was released and season 1 aired, some people thought Martin would release the next books quicker so that the show wouldn't catch up to him....oh sweet summer children. 

I believed he would release the next book after 3 years and the final book after another 3 years so that it would come out at the same time as the last season.

Those were happier times...

[Lady Anna]

48 minutes ago, divica said:

I believed he would release the next book after 3 years and the final book after another 3 years so that it would come out at the same time as the last season.

Those were happier times...

Is it possible that if he didn't have so many problems with Feast and Dance the series would already be finished? It seems that those two books halted his progress on the story....but he did expand it even more...so i don't know

[divica]

17 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

Is it possible that if he didn't have so many problems with Feast and Dance the series would already be finished? It seems that those two books halted his progress on the story....but he did expand it even more...so i don't know

I think he wrote AFfC very fast. If we take into account that he had to rethink how the story would go because of the timeskip not happening, rewrite part of the book, he probably released a dunk and egg story in that period and that if we add part of ADwD then AFfC is a huge book then 5 years isn t that much.

However I will never understand what happened after AFfC. It feels like some disaster appeared in grrm's life... We went from a 1 year prediction to a 6 years wait... And then another 7(?) years for the next book? If we subtract 2 years from the AFfC time because he had to redo the book and write dunk and egg then he used to spend around 3 years per book and after AFfC he started to need much more.

[Lady Anna]

1 minute ago, divica said:

I think he wrote AFfC very fast. If we take into account that he had to rethink how the story would go because of the timeskip not happening, rewrite part of the book, he probably released a dunk and egg story in that period and that if we add part of ADwD then AFfC is a huge book then 5 years isn t that much.

However I will never understand what happened after AFfC. It feels like some disaster appeared in grrm's life... We went from a 1 year prediction to a 6 years wait... And then another 7(?) years for the next book? If we subtract 2 years from the AFfC time because he had to redo the book and write dunk and egg then he used to spend around 3 years per book and after AFfC he started to need much more.

Yes the worst part was the wait between Feast and Dance. It's so weird cause allegedly he wrote them as one book (hence why it was so long and he had to divide it), but if that's true then why did Dance take so long....Either he hadn't written it yet (unlikely given the supposed 1-year difference), or he rewrote everything again. I honestly suspect he himself lost some enthusiasm for the series. Not doing the timeskip threw things in other directions he had to plan in detail, it may have been like writing a new series from scratch (and I know he isn't a planner).

Anyway, while I'm disappointed of course, I've already made my peace with this situation. Like Gertrude said above it's harder to care as you used to, and even if Martin quit the series I wouldn't be mad. It already feels like it's.....over in some way, you know?

[divica]

1 hour ago, Lady Anna said:

Yes the worst part was the wait between Feast and Dance. It's so weird cause allegedly he wrote them as one book (hence why it was so long and he had to divide it), but if that's true then why did Dance take so long....Either he hadn't written it yet (unlikely given the supposed 1-year difference), or he rewrote everything again. I honestly suspect he himself lost some enthusiasm for the series. Not doing the timeskip threw things in other directions he had to plan in detail, it may have been like writing a new series from scratch (and I know he isn't a planner).

Anyway, while I'm disappointed of course, I've already made my peace with this situation. Like Gertrude said above it's harder to care as you used to, and even if Martin quit the series I wouldn't be mad. It already feels like it's.....over in some way, you know?

If martin did an interview where he answered all possible question I could have about the series then I would feel that it is over.

As someone who read the books shortly before ADwD and watches the show I think I will have that feeling that is over when got ends or after TWoW is released. Simply because I can t stay invested in the series for another decade without new material. I can't imagine that most of the old fans would still be interested in asoiaf if it wasn t for the show. Three huge gaps between books is too much for almost everybody... On the other hand we will never know if martin wouldn t release the books faster if it wasn t the show...

[Grover Bluejoy]

I did not get into the books until after the first few seasons of the show aired, so I have to ask:

How was the typical fan reaction to these prior delays?

If you read any of the comment sections on any post he makes on Facebook, (I don't know if he's on other Social Media platforms; FB is the only one I use) even the one he made a couple of weeks back about one of his cats dying, people are generally very nasty and downright disrespectful towards him about Winds not being finished.

Was it like that for Feast or Dance?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

38 minutes ago, Grover Bluejoy said:

I did not get into the books until after the first few seasons of the show aired, so I have to ask:

How was the typical fan reaction to these prior delays?

If you read any of the comment sections on any post he makes on Facebook, (I don't know if he's on other Social Media platforms; FB is the only one I use) even the one he made a couple of weeks back about one of his cats dying, people are generally very nasty and downright disrespectful towards him about Winds not being finished.

Was it like that for Feast or Dance?

No, he wasn't on Facebook then. Actually, when he started writing AFFC, there was no Facebook, period, since Mark Zuckerberg was still in high school. The series is seriously old.

[Joy Hill]

23 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Martin has said that one of the issues he had was figuring out who had to arrive first and why etc, and that it took lots of reshuffling of PoVs and also rewrites related to that as well.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Meereenese_knot

"Now I can explain things. It was a confluence of many, many factors: lets start with the offer from Xaro to give Danyships, the refusal of which then leads to Qarth's declaration of war. Then there's the marriage of Daenerys to pacify the city. Then there's the arrival of the Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, there's the order of arrival of various people going her way (Tyrion, Quentyn, Victarion, Aegon, Marwyn, etc.), and then there's Daario, this dangerous sellsword and the question of whether Dany really wants him or not, there's the plague, there's Drogon's return to Meereen...

All of these things were balls I had thrown up into the air, and they're all linked and chronologically entwined. The return of Drogon to the city was something I explored as happening at different times. For example, I wrote three different versions of Quentyn's arrival at Meereen: one where he arrived long before Dany's marriage, one where he arrived much later, and one where he arrived just the day before the marriage (which is how it ended up being in the novel). And I had to write all three versions to be able to compare and see how these different arrival points affected the stories of the other characters. Including the story of a character who actually hasn't arrived yet."

Thanks!

Yeah, I read that quote before, but I'm still puzzled as to why this took (maybe is still taking?) sooo much time (5 years!). There are plenty of other intricate storylines in the series. Oh well, maybe I'm just sour that a storyline that I'm not very interested in is eating so much time (which is admittedly very selfish).

On 25/01/2018 at 0:39 PM, kissdbyfire said:

The bold x 100 for me. I started reading the series around 2001, I think. The first three books had been published, and there were years of wait before Feast was out. But during those years of waiting for Feast I was working 95 hrs/week. So, while I was anxious to get the next instalment, I think my workload didn't allow for me to feel the wait so keenly. With Dance it was different... I was even more anxious for the next book, and working sane hours. On top of that, there were all the frustrated expectations, updates that ended up being totally wrong etc. So, yeah, in an ideal world I'd like to get a book/year.  

But since we know that's not happening, I much prefer no updates and just an announcement when it's done.

In a nutshell, it's been easier this time.

And btw, I completely understand how frustrating not having any updates can be for some, but I also completely understand Martin's stance on the matter. 

But here I couldn't disagree more!

The show doesn't fill a hole imo, the show is a hole! 

I agree that GRRM is terrible at making predictions, so he souldn't speculate on release dates. That being said, I personally would enjoy an update on what he wrote now and then (for example, he once wrote in a comment that he just wrote a conversation between Jaime and the Blackfish. That kind of thing would be nice).

[Joy Hill]

18 hours ago, divica said:

If martin did an interview where he answered all possible question I could have about the series then I would feel that it is over.

As someone who read the books shortly before ADwD and watches the show I think I will have that feeling that is over when got ends or after TWoW is released. Simply because I can t stay invested in the series for another decade without new material. I can't imagine that most of the old fans would still be interested in asoiaf if it wasn t for the show. Three huge gaps between books is too much for almost everybody... On the other hand we will never know if martin wouldn t release the books faster if it wasn t the show...

I think the show definitely contributed to the slower pace. GRRM doesn't even want to hear about the existence of fanfiction after all, imagine what the show is doing to him.

1 hour ago, Grover Bluejoy said:

I did not get into the books until after the first few seasons of the show aired, so I have to ask:

How was the typical fan reaction to these prior delays?

If you read any of the comment sections on any post he makes on Facebook, (I don't know if he's on other Social Media platforms; FB is the only one I use) even the one he made a couple of weeks back about one of his cats dying, people are generally very nasty and downright disrespectful towards him about Winds not being finished.

Was it like that for Feast or Dance?

Jesus. I just quickly browsed his FB page for the first time and you're right, people are incredibly nasty.