What's your favourite Reverse Honeypot?

[Annara Snow]

42 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Lol why I should I write a serious refutation of something about how fast some toddler grows - I only addressed some of the relevant criticisms revolving around the main plotlines.

And if you think my refutations weren't sound or had flaws in them, you have the option to make such a case in a response comment. Thing is, this is a pretty good demonstration of how well R&R type arguments hold up in any other thread

I already did, no matter how poor, nonsensical, and, in some cases, self-defeating your arguments were. But you somehow always fail to realize that you're completely defeated in debate and blissfully convinced that you're doing such a great job and totally winning this debate thing. Which is almost cute, but becomes boring after a while due to the repetitiveness.

In any case, the argument that timeline not making sense is not relevant criticism is one of your funniest arguments so far, alongside "Night's Watch desertion is no big deal in Westeros", "someone dying and being resurrected is no big deal and wouldn't freak out anyone", "killing Oberyn's family to avenge Oberyn and his family makes perfect sense", "Ellaria getting the support of the people and all but one of Doran's guards happened off-screen and this is not bad writing at all", "Ramsay somehow had huge manpower and resources to terrorize the North without any outside allies, and this requires no explanation", and, of course, "Tommen's suicide did not prove that he was emotionally dependent on Margaery and unable to function without her, because it was the concrete floor that killed him, not suicide"????!!!

I don't even know what you were going for with that one... you seemed a bit lost there, even by your standards.

[Pink Fat Rast]

 

24 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

of your funniest arguments so far, alongside "Night's Watch desertion is no big deal in Westeros", "someone dying and being resurrected is no big deal and wouldn't freak out anyone", "killing Oberyn's family to avenge Oberyn and his family makes perfect sense", "Ellaria getting the support of the people and all but one of Doran's guards happened off-screen and this is not bad writing at all", "Ramsay somehow had huge manpower and resources to terrorize the North without any outside allies, and this requires no explanation", and, of course, "Tommen's suicide did not prove that he was emotionally dependent on Margaery and unable to function without her, because it was the concrete floor that killed him, not suicide"????!!!

I don't even know what you were going for with that one... you seemed a bit lost there, even by your standards.

Congratulations - in your zeal, you managed to completely misread and misunderstand every single point you just listed; often to the point of seeing the exact polar opposite of what was actually said.

The only exception is the one that wasn't boldened, which you got more or less right give or take.

[Annara Snow]

23 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

 

Congratulations - in your zeal, you managed to completely misread and misunderstand every single point you just listed; often to the point of seeing the exact polar opposite of what was actually said.

The only exception is the one that wasn't boldened, which you got more or less right give or take.

That may be true if 1) you're extremely bad at expressing yourself, 2) your arguments are half-baked and contradictory. Like I said, I doubt even you knew what you were going for with that last one.

It seems you get so caught up in your own zeal to defend your beloved show at any costs that you don't think thomgs through or build up coherent arguments, possibly hoping that the sheer quantity of your posts will wear everyone down.

[Pink Fat Rast]

10 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

That may be true if 1) you're extremely bad at expressing yourself

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150160-what-was-the-best-unintentional-lesson-learned-from-game-of-thrones/#comment-8118346 
"The writing at the macro-level sucked because it reduced what should've been a fleshed out characterization and especially worldbuilding, to a few bare cliff notes - however, the cliff notes are still in there so the basic concept is mostly clear."

"Ellaria getting the support of the people and all but one of Doran's guards happened off-screen and this is not bad writing at all."

...

:D

[Meera of Tarth]

12 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

I like the idea that Baby Sam is a being for whom time passes much slower than for everyone else, which is why he had grown so little (maybe he will reach adolescence in about 50 years), and that the universe is balancing this out by making time pass much more quickly than average for some other characters, particularly Aeron Greyjoy, which is why he looks about 15-20 years older than his eldest brother Balon and about 40-45 years older than his other elder brother, Euron. 

This certainly explains a lot of things about the show's timeline: clearly, for instance, the Riverlands exist on a different plane than, say, King's Landing (as it's easy to do math and see that the total amount of time between episode 3.9 and the end of season 6 in King's Landing was several months, at most a year if we are generous, but Edmure Tully had been a prisoner "for years"). Those different planes of existence intersect occasionally, which is why it seems that the Riverlands is in a void and then suddenly pops into existence from time to time. It also explains the drastically different travel times of various characters, which gave rise to the theory that some characters, like Little finger or Varys, have transporters. While that theory may have been compelling at one point, the "time passes differently" theory is much better at explaining everything, including the aging rate of baby Sam and the disappearing Riverlands.

It may also somewhat excuse Margaery Tyrell - as she only came to King's Landing at the end of season 2), she wasn't aware how slowly time passes in KL , and her sense of time that has passed since the events of season 1 (when Tommen was 8 years old, according to Loras) has made her believe that Tommen - who was constantly in King's Landing, where time passes more slowly - is much older than he really is, and no one ever corrected her misconception. (This confusion was also reflected in the actors, with Natalie Dormer saying in interviews during season 5 that Tommen was an innocent 17 year old, while Dean-Charles Chapman was saying Tommen was 12.)

I was about to say this!!

I've always thought that there must be a secret reason why Baby Sam doesn't age up normally or a subtle way to show us that time is relative in Westeros. Example, KL's arcs always last weeks or months (the trials of Tyrion, Cersei, Margaery, season 7 being just two weeks-that's what the banker from Braavos says, and the pregnancy of Cersei..etc) instead of years since mid season four (in the Riverlands, the North and Braavos it's been years). Of course, there are exceptions to this such as Tommen's case, that might be another subtle hint from the showrunners to the viewers....

But I wanted to add that this has to be related to the idea of Craster's sons' possible magic and whitewalkers. We all know that WWs and the NK like babies so as to create new whitewalkers, as it is established in season 4 and this image is repeated in Bran's visions (so it must be of great importance).

So let's get back to the whitewalkers. We all know that they are not particularly fast guys. So that means that their timeline matches the one of KL and babySam (not Sam Senior, his timeline is diffeent). What will happen now that they have crossed the Wall? Will they spend all season 8 travelling? Will it depend on the region they are traveling? Or there will be a revelation to the viewers that not only seasons are not functioning normally but also time? Maybe we will discover that whitewalkers control the seasons and time! It's interesting...

[Lucius Lovejoy]

On 1/27/2018 at 7:08 AM, Annara Snow said:

I like the idea that Baby Sam is a being for whom time passes much slower than for everyone else, which is why he had grown so little (maybe he will reach adolescence in about 50 years), and that the universe is balancing this out by making time pass much more quickly than average for some other characters, particularly Aeron Greyjoy, which is why he looks about 15-20 years older than his eldest brother Balon and about 40-45 years older than his other elder brother, Euron. 

This certainly explains a lot of things about the show's timeline: clearly, for instance, the Riverlands exist on a different plane than, say, King's Landing (as it's easy to do math and see that the total amount of time between episode 3.9 and the end of season 6 in King's Landing was several months, at most a year if we are generous, but Edmure Tully had been a prisoner "for years"). Those different planes of existence intersect occasionally, which is why it seems that the Riverlands is in a void and then suddenly pops into existence from time to time. It also explains the drastically different travel times of various characters, which gave rise to the theory that some characters, like Little finger or Varys, have transporters. While that theory may have been compelling at one point, the "time passes differently" theory is much better at explaining everything, including the aging rate of baby Sam and the disappearing Riverlands.

It may also somewhat excuse Margaery Tyrell - as she only came to King's Landing at the end of season 2), she wasn't aware how slowly time passes in KL , and her sense of time that has passed since the events of season 1 (when Tommen was 8 years old, according to Loras) has made her believe that Tommen - who was constantly in King's Landing, where time passes more slowly - is much older than he really is, and no one ever corrected her misconception. (This confusion was also reflected in the actors, with Natalie Dormer saying in interviews during season 5 that Tommen was an innocent 17 year old, while Dean-Charles Chapman was saying Tommen was 12.)

 

 

 

(I'm looking forward to Pink Fat Rast writing a dead serious, 100,000 words post trying to disprove this,  using arguments he genuinely believes to be super duper strong and logical, and congratulating himself on how he's totes proven the bad book fans wrong and defended his beloved show. It's kind of funny in it's own way. )

 

I laughed so hard at all of this.  Bravo!

[Rhollo]

My personal reverse honeypot is how Jon's whole arc can be seen as the story of a simple guy who is shoved into positions of leadership without any desire or qualification to be there. This makes him extremely uncomfortable and the only escape he sees is dying a hero's death. So he assigns himself stupid field missions and puts himself into unnecessary dangerous situations whenever possible (Hardhome, BotB, Wight Hunt).

He even kinda get's his wish when he is killed by the NW mutineers, but as a cruel joke, Mel brings him back, which he clearly didn't want, since he straight up tells her to not do it again.

At least he got to quit the NW because of this but, oh no, it get's even worse as he stumbles all the way up to being KitN despite desperate efforts to sabotage himself. But some 10yo girl thinks he is the bees knees, so you're it, Johnny.

 

It's the gothic horror version of Forrest Gump.

[Pink Fat Rast]

3 hours ago, Rhollo said:

My personal reverse honeypot is how Jon's whole arc can be seen as the story of a simple guy who is shoved into positions of leadership without any desire or qualification to be there. This makes him extremely uncomfortable and the only escape he sees is dying a hero's death. So he assigns himself stupid field missions and puts himself into unnecessary dangerous situations whenever possible (Hardhome, BotB, Wight Hunt).

He even kinda get's his wish when he is killed by the NW mutineers, but as a cruel joke, Mel brings him back, which he clearly didn't want, since he straight up tells her to not do it again.

At least he got to quit the NW because of this but, oh no, it get's even worse as he stumbles all the way up to being KitN despite desperate efforts to sabotage himself. But some 10yo girl thinks he is the bees knees, so you're it, Johnny.

 

It's the gothic horror version of Forrest Gump.

Him having a death wish in S6 (until the bit where he survives the mass trampling at the end) is already part of the official plot, as you yourself noted - it came and went.

Him being an occasional hothead dumbass (like for example in that battle) is also official part of the plot.

So honeypot theories revolving around "what if Jon Snow is stupid" or "what if Jon Snow just wants to die" aren't really working.

[Rhollo]

18 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Him having a death wish in S6 (until the bit where he survives the mass trampling at the end) is already part of the official plot, as you yourself noted - it came and went.

Him being an occasional hothead dumbass (like for example in that battle) is also official part of the plot.

So honeypot theories revolving around "what if Jon Snow is stupid" or "what if Jon Snow just wants to die" aren't really working.

Great, so Jon's story is officially farcical

[Pink Fat Rast]

7 hours ago, Rhollo said:

Great, so Jon's story is officially farcical

The flaws he shows at various points in S6-7 can be described as arrogance, hotheadedness, heightened emotional state (during BoB in particular), recklessness and blindly honorable values.

In S1-4, he also showed many of those characteristics, but often also came off a bit slow and dumb - now he doesn't. It's a tone/expression thing.

If he still were "dumb" in his current kingly state, it might've been farcical - this way, not so much.
However, his mistakes don't sufficiently pay off in the narrative, so it appears somewhat weird and pointless at times.