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DeCon JonCon- I Don't Understand


Pride of Driftmark

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One character that I have never been able to fully understand or appreciate is Jon Connington. He is a paragon of Unconditional Old Dynasty Loyalism, together with a relatively small group (Crackclaw Men, House Darry, and Varys/Illyrio?) 

However, there is a fundamental thing that doesn't quite add up with Jon. I am curious for input as to whether or not he is loyal to the idea of House Targaryen as overlord of the Seven Kingdoms, or if he is simply loyal to (and therefore blinded by) the memory of Prince Rhaegar. 

Another thing that always struck me is why Jon was never won over by Robert. I know Jon "chafed at serving such a lord", but Robert easily won over Ned (whose honor is like Jon Connington on steroids) and his other unruly bannermen. Was it simply love for Rhaegar? It is a compelling character motivation, I know, but it feels like something's missing. He obviously fully believes in the legitimacy of Aegon VI, even though we have little cause to be. 

Any input at all would be great. 

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Jon Con was already in exile by the time Robert became king and Griffin's Roost had already been transferred to his cousin, Ser Ronald. So the only time Robert could have won over JC was after the Battle of the Bells, but JonCon escaped so there was no opportunity. Besides, it would have meant JC taking up arms against Rhaegar, his most cherished friend.

So, to answer your question: JC is driven by his loyalty to the Targ dynasty and the memory of Rhaegar in particular. Plus, if fAegon takes the Iron Throne, JC gets to keep Griffin's Roost.

 

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I don't think he's necessarily loyal to House Targaryen, otherwise I suspect he'd go to Daenerys and Viserys. It wasn't until he was introduced to "Aegon" that he seems to have found his calling, the perfect opportunity to redeem himself for failing Rhaegar, which seems like a personal triumph more than anything. He does not seem particularly interested in marrying or getting an heir of some sort to his newly reclaimed lands. In theory he could have gotten Griffin's Roost back via an invasion led by Viserys as well, but he didn't join them.

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I think Jon Conn is mainly driven by his loyalty to Rhaegar than the Targaryen dynasty itself. He does mention that even Rhaegar saw plainly that Aerys had lost it, which I take to mean that he was one of the driving forces that would have had Rhaegar remove his father from the throne.

During his first 5 years of exile, he could have gone to Willem Darry who had Viserys and Dany, and he did nothing of the sort as far as we know.

48 minutes ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

He obviously fully believes in the legitimacy of Aegon VI, even though we have little cause to be. 

I really would like to know what kind of proof he was presented with by Varys and Illyrio or if he was just desperate enough to believe whatever they were telling him. Jon Conn is looking for redemption and he wants to be worthy of Rhaegar's esteem, but man, if that kid is fake, that fall will not be pleasant.

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2 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I really would like to know what kind of proof he was presented with by Varys and Illyrio or if he was just desperate enough to believe whatever they were telling him. Jon Conn is looking for redemption and he wants to be worthy of Rhaegar's esteem, but man, if that kid is fake, that fall will not be pleasant.

Some are arguing that he's simply deluding himself into believing Aegon is real, because he couldn't cope with truth. If it's ever revealed that he is fake, it would be interesting to hear him learn of Jon, his own namesake and the actual son of Rhaegar (if you believe he is). He seems to be a very tense person, driven by hatred, who knows what he'd do.

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As for Ned and Robert getting along, it might be that Robert was nicer to him than Brandon was. Robert was the good (slightly) older brother to Ned that Brandon wasn't. Even Ned was probably more fun for Robert to hang out with than young Stannis.

We don't know how much Robert won over Ned's banner-men, only that they were, mostly, fiercely loyal to The Ned.

Even Stannis debated following Robert. Can't hold it against Jon Con to have doubts... also, there may be past strife between the Connington and Baratheon families.

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46 minutes ago, Dimmu Borgir said:

Some are arguing that he's simply deluding himself into believing Aegon is real, because he couldn't cope with truth. If it's ever revealed that he is fake, it would be interesting to hear him learn of Jon, his own namesake and the actual son of Rhaegar (if you believe he is). He seems to be a very tense person, driven by hatred, who knows what he'd do.

I find it hard to tell if he has doubts or no. I don't think his comment on the eye color is much to go by. But it's certainly possible that he is deluding himself. People tend to do that when they want something to be true. 

I am looking forward to him finding out about Jon if and when that happens. I'm guessing it might be a very bittersweet moment for him.

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Even Stannis debated following Robert. Can't hold it against Jon Con to have doubts... also, there may be past strife between the Connington and Baratheon families.

I'm interested in knowing if House Connington continued fighting on Targaryen's side after Jon was exiled or if they decided to follow their liege lord instead. But since Robert reduced them to a house of landed knights, I'm guessing they stayed loyal to Targaryen. The only other House I can think of that received this treatment is House Darry. 

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I think jon con was in love with rhaegar, i dont think targaryens matter to him in the general sense, but since he was in love with rhaegar sees aegon as a way to redeem himself in rhaegars eyes as well as trying to honour him.

Also i think jon con would of recieved/needed concrete proof that aegon is really aegon before agreeing to anything, and wouldnt support aegon if he had any doubts whatsoever because supporting a faegon would dishonour rhaegar the man he was in love with memory.

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7 hours ago, Dimmu Borgir said:

Some are arguing that he's simply deluding himself into believing Aegon is real, because he couldn't cope with truth. If it's ever revealed that he is fake, it would be interesting to hear him learn of Jon, his own namesake and the actual son of Rhaegar (if you believe he is). He seems to be a very tense person, driven by hatred, who knows what he'd do.

Uh, no. Jon was named after Jon Arryn, not Jon Connington.

5 hours ago, Robb Snow said:

Do we know if Robert Baratheon ever offered a pardon to the "exiled by aerys"-Jon Connington?

Considering the rumor was put about that JonCon drank himself to death, I doubt it. Most likely that rumor was started by Varys himself, and I don't think we know exactly when it was started but it certainly could have been well before Varys and Illyrio brought JC in on the Aegon deal.

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3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Uh, no. Jon was named after Jon Arryn, not Jon Connington.

Considering the rumor was put about that JonCon drank himself to death, I doubt it. Most likely that rumor was started by Varys himself, and I don't think we know exactly when it was started but it certainly could have been well before Varys and Illyrio brought JC in on the Aegon deal.

Actually, that rumor was started by Varys so JonCon could fade completely out of sight. JonCon thinks about it openly in the story.

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20 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

One character that I have never been able to fully understand or appreciate is Jon Connington. He is a paragon of Unconditional Old Dynasty Loyalism, together with a relatively small group (Crackclaw Men, House Darry, and Varys/Illyrio?) 

However, there is a fundamental thing that doesn't quite add up with Jon. I am curious for input as to whether or not he is loyal to the idea of House Targaryen as overlord of the Seven Kingdoms, or if he is simply loyal to (and therefore blinded by) the memory of Prince Rhaegar. 

Another thing that always struck me is why Jon was never won over by Robert. I know Jon "chafed at serving such a lord", but Robert easily won over Ned (whose honor is like Jon Connington on steroids) and his other unruly bannermen. Was it simply love for Rhaegar? It is a compelling character motivation, I know, but it feels like something's missing. He obviously fully believes in the legitimacy of Aegon VI, even though we have little cause to be. 

Any input at all would be great. 

I think Jon is motivated by a personal loyalty to his loving memory of Rhaegar, but that is outweighed by his desire fore revenge and the chance to restore his honor. That's why we see him disregard any doubts he might suspect regarding Aegon's payernity. 

Not everyone was turned by Robert. Jon Connington appears to have spent considerable time in King's Landing. And Jon was banished before the end of Robert's Rebellion. If Jon had returned, he might have found a hospitable reception in Robert's Red Keep, but for whatever reason, he remained abroad, and his title was awarded to Red Ronnet. 

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13 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Considering the rumor was put about that JonCon drank himself to death, I doubt it. Most likely that rumor was started by Varys himself, and I don't think we know exactly when it was started but it certainly could have been well before Varys and Illyrio brought JC in on the Aegon deal.

 

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9 hours ago, bent branch said:

Actually, that rumor was started by Varys so JonCon could fade completely out of sight. JonCon thinks about it openly in the story.

That's what makes this sooo fascinating...

"What would you have me do?" asked the torchbearer, a stout man in a leather half cape. . .

"If one Hand can die, why not a second?" replied the man with the accent and the forked yellow beard. "You have danced the dance before, my friend." . . .

"Before is not now, and this Hand is not the other," the scarred man said as they stepped out into the hall. . . .

I love this exchange. When the casual, first-time reader reads this, she understands the Hand in question to be Jon Arryn, and that Varys must have caused Jon Arryn’s death, especially since we just learned that he does not want the new Hand learning about the “twincest,” and we learn as we read, that Jon was killed after learning about the “twincest.” But substitute another Jon, Jon Connington, in for Jon Arryn, and you can see what Illyrio might have been suggesting: That Varys attempt to co-opt Eddard into their ulterior plot.

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21 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

One character that I have never been able to fully understand or appreciate is Jon Connington. He is a paragon of Unconditional Old Dynasty Loyalism, together with a relatively small group (Crackclaw Men, House Darry, and Varys/Illyrio?) 

Yes, he was hand of the king for a time 

21 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

However, there is a fundamental thing that doesn't quite add up with Jon. I am curious for input as to whether or not he is loyal to the idea of House Targaryen as overlord of the Seven Kingdoms, or if he is simply loyal to (and therefore blinded by) the memory of Prince Rhaegar. 

See above response 

21 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

 Another thing that always struck me is why Jon was never won over by Robert.

Bob beat him in battle, a battle that got him exiled 

21 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

I know Jon "chafed at serving such a lord", but Robert easily won over Ned (whose honor is like Jon Connington on steroids) and his other unruly bannermen.

Bob and Ned were childhood friends

21 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

Was it simply love for Rhaegar? It is a compelling character motivation, I know, but it feels like something's missing. He obviously fully believes in the legitimacy of Aegon VI, even though we have little cause to be. 

He was a prominent Stormlord close to the royal family. And he was Gay for the prince.
So it was both 

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13 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Uh, no. Jon was named after Jon Arryn, not Jon Connington.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a namesake is also defined as "a person or thing having the same name as another". That was the definition I was going by, but you're absolutely right - I agree. Though it wouldn't stop Jon Connington from perhaps drawing the wrong conclusion. Certainly, despite Jon Snow not being specifically named after him, it would have some effect on him.

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2 hours ago, Dimmu Borgir said:

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a namesake is also defined as "a person or thing having the same name as another". That was the definition I was going by, but you're absolutely right - I agree. Though it wouldn't stop Jon Connington from perhaps drawing the wrong conclusion. Certainly, despite Jon Snow not being specifically named after him, it would have some effect on him.

I know what the OED is. The general usage of the term namesake is a person or thing named in honor of another. The structure of the word supports this usage as a namesake per the general usage is named for the sake of the person who had the name first. Interestingly, Wikipedia supports this usage, as do a number of other sources including lesser dictionaries than the OED. ;)

Good point about the name affecting JonCon regardless.

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12 hours ago, bent branch said:

Actually, that rumor was started by Varys so JonCon could fade completely out of sight. JonCon thinks about it openly in the story.

I was right and I didn't even know it. Curse this fibro! I must do a re-read to pick up on all the things I've forgotten.

Do we know when the rumor was put out? Was it right away, or did they give it some time to make it more believable? 

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

That's what makes this sooo fascinating...

"What would you have me do?" asked the torchbearer, a stout man in a leather half cape. . .

"If one Hand can die, why not a second?" replied the man with the accent and the forked yellow beard. "You have danced the dance before, my friend." . . .

"Before is not now, and this Hand is not the other," the scarred man said as they stepped out into the hall. . . .

I love this exchange. When the casual, first-time reader reads this, she understands the Hand in question to be Jon Arryn, and that Varys must have caused Jon Arryn’s death, especially since we just learned that he does not want the new Hand learning about the “twincest,” and we learn as we read, that Jon was killed after learning about the “twincest.” But substitute another Jon, Jon Connington, in for Jon Arryn, and you can see what Illyrio might have been suggesting: That Varys attempt to co-opt Eddard into their ulterior plot.

Agreed. Shame Joffrey got in the way. 

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