Xray the Enforcer Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Reminder: This thread is for the discussion of issues relating to the lives of LBGTQ+ (lesbian, bisexual, gay, transgender/transsexual, queer/questioning) people. This thread aims to be a supportive space for issues on sexuality and gender identities. Please do not post comments that negate, belittle, or insult people's chosen identity. This thread operates with a number of givens, including (but not limited to): that equal marriage rights are human rights, and thus are not subject to debate in this thread; that bisexuality is a legitimate orientation and is not up for debate in this thread; among others. This is not an exhaustive list, and it is up to the mods' discretion what is or isn't a legitimate avenue of debate. Edited January 26, 2018 by Xray the Enforcer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Valley Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 New Thread! Hi Everybody! Xoxoxoxoxoxoxo. Happy Friday! See you nerds in the drinking thread later, God Willing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Why am I always the one to point out how the current reality is worse than the old one? But, I'll be honest. These statistics aren't as bad as I thought they would be. https://www.glaad.org/files/aa/Accelerating Acceptance 2018.pdf But category 2 is worrisome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 26/01/2018 at 7:43 PM, Robin Of House Hill said: Why am I always the one to point out how the current reality is worse than the old one? But, I'll be honest. These statistics aren't as bad as I thought they would be. https://www.glaad.org/files/aa/Accelerating Acceptance 2018.pdf But category 2 is worrisome. I thought the acceptance of gay marriage one was pretty depressing, I'd have thought legalisation would have made it go the other way. Regular conservative people tend be relatively quick to give way on these kinds of things. Like in the U.K, first we had Civil Partnerships, and conservatives opposed them. A few years later and those same people are saying "we don't need gay marriage, I support gay equality, but we have that through civil partnerships!". Maybe it will take a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 I think it's unwise to take that data in a vacuum. If you subbed in "atheist" or "Jew" or "Muslim" in any of those questions, you'd see a similar jump in people willing to admit that they're retrograde dipshits. As such, while it's depressing, it's part of our dumpster-fire cultural zeitgeist, rather than growing animus against LGBTQ+ people in particular. And, yes, I do think that's an important distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I like the quote at the end of the document: "Forward progress ebbs and flows in every social justice movement." If you were born a gay man or woman in 50BCE within the city of Rome, nobody would have cared. Emperor Hadrian was openly gay, for instance. 1,000 years later and it was cause for disinheritance - at best. It says a lot about how people like me, who don't fall into the category of LGBTQIA+ must work so hard at supporting fellow humans' need for the recognition of their rights. There really isn't an excuse for the institutionalised discrimination that exists and it's disheartening to see a drop in those classified "allies" in the document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 The problem I see is in the section entitled "A Shift From Allies to Detached Supporters." I'd really like to see an ind depth analysis of why that drift is occurring. Whether its a case of people protecting themselves in an increasingly problematic political climate, or the specifics of what is making people uneasy. And yes, there is always a pendulum effect to progress in the social arena, but with the mobilization of reactionary forces, this is starting to look like one step forward and two steps back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Yukle said: If you were born a gay man or woman in 50BCE within the city of Rome, nobody would have cared. Emperor Hadrian was openly gay, for instance. 1,000 years later and it was cause for disinheritance - at best. It says a lot about how people like me, who don't fall into the category of LGBTQIA+ must work so hard at supporting fellow humans' need for the recognition of their rights. There really isn't an excuse for the institutionalised discrimination that exists and it's disheartening to see a drop in those classified "allies" in the document. It's an interesting topic, because the normal Roman view of homosexuality would still be considered highly offensive today, they thought recieving was absolutely shameful, in fact I'm sure I read it was a crime for a patrician to take the submissive role to a plebian. It's certainly a mistake when people assume every society before 1960 ever was Victorian style homophobic, but at the same time I'm not aware of any that view homosexuality as modern, liberal society does. It's a pretty generous definition of "ally". None of those things make me uncomfortable, but I don't call myself a gay ally, anymore than I'm a black ally, a Muslim ally, etc, just an egalitarian. Don't you actually have to,y'know, do something to be an ally? 16 hours ago, Robin Of House Hill said: The problem I see is in the section entitled "A Shift From Allies to Detached Supporters." I'd really like to see an ind depth analysis of why that drift is occurring. Whether its a case of people protecting themselves in an increasingly problematic political climate, or the specifics of what is making people uneasy. And yes, there is always a pendulum effect to progress in the social arena, but with the mobilization of reactionary forces, this is starting to look like one step forward and two steps back. Even in a private survey, could it partly be that people just feel emboldened, even subconsciously, by seeing powerful figures openly voicing bigoted views? I thinks socialisation is a strong enough force that it could effect whether someone would tick a box saying they felt uncomfortable around gay people, if they felt that was taboo. Edited January 29, 2018 by mankytoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 hours ago, mankytoes said: Even in a private survey, could it partly be that people just feel emboldened, even subconsciously, by seeing powerful figures openly voicing bigoted views? I thinks socialisation is a strong enough force that it could effect whether someone would tick a box saying they felt uncomfortable around gay people, if they felt that was taboo. I think it is simpler than that. When people see that those in power are attacking a group, they worry what will happen if those in power see them as supporting that group. It's a reaction based on fear of what may happen to themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/28/2018 at 0:15 PM, mankytoes said: I thought the acceptance of gay marriage one was pretty depressing, I'd have thought legalisation would have made it go the other way. Regular conservative people tend be relatively quick to give way on these kinds of things. Like in the U.K, first we had Civil Partnerships, and conservatives opposed them. A few years later and those same people are saying "we don't need gay marriage, I support gay equality, but we have that through civil partnerships!". Maybe it will take a few years. Eh, I think the government just needs to get out have the marriage business altogether. In theory there's supposed to be separation of church and state, and too much of matrimony has it's roots in religion. If that requires rewriting tax codes and things to recognize households as opposed to marriages so much the better. It gets the government out of the business of picking and choosing what to and not to recognize, which is what we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Piece of human garbage Steven Anderson (the piece of literal trash who said that there were '50 less pedophiles in the world' after the Pulse shooting) was planning to go to Jamaica to seep his vile trash juice at the UWI campus in Kingston. A petition was started a while back to get the government to disallow it, and today he was officially banned from entering the country at all. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/29/jamaica-bans-anti-gay-arizona-pastor-from-visiting-country Small steps forward I guess. Still have those awful laws on the books though :\ Edited January 30, 2018 by KiDisaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: Eh, I think the government just needs to get out have the marriage business altogether. In theory there's supposed to be separation of church and state, and too much of matrimony has it's roots in religion. If that requires rewriting tax codes and things to recognize households as opposed to marriages so much the better. It gets the government out of the business of picking and choosing what to and not to recognize, which is what we have now. This is just the old 'marriage is a religious institution' argument, which is historically untrue and a pointless nonsense anyway. The government is no more capable of getting 'out of the marriage business' than it is of abolishing war. Marriage is a government business and so it must be equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, KiDisaster said: Small steps forward I guess. Yep. It might be the tiniest of steps, but it's still a step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 15 hours ago, Robin Of House Hill said: I think it is simpler than that. When people see that those in power are attacking a group, they worry what will happen if those in power see them as supporting that group. It's a reaction based on fear of what may happen to themselves. Sounds very plausable, like a natural survival tactic. A bit like little kids no longer wanting to be friends with the one who wet himself in class. I'd think that thought of thing was mainly subconscious? 13 hours ago, KiDisaster said: Piece of human garbage Steven Anderson (the piece of literal trash who said that there were '50 less pedophiles in the world' after the Pulse shooting) was planning to go to Jamaica to seep his vile trash juice at the UWI campus in Kingston. A petition was started a while back to get the government to disallow it, and today he was officially banned from entering the country at all. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/29/jamaica-bans-anti-gay-arizona-pastor-from-visiting-country Small steps forward I guess. Still have those awful laws on the books though :\ That sounds really positive, considering how homophobic my impression of Jamaica is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 hours ago, mankytoes said: Sounds very plausable, like a natural survival tactic. A bit like little kids no longer wanting to be friends with the one who wet himself in class. I'd think that thought of thing was mainly subconscious? I cringe at the analogy, but I can't argue with it. When those not directly threatened start backing away, the threat must be perceived as real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 In case anyone thought the problem was only the extreme right. Of course, it may be the the Republican Party is now part of the extreme right. http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-voted-define-being-transgender-disqualifying-psychological-and-798726 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 3:46 AM, Robin Of House Hill said: In case anyone thought the problem was only the extreme right. Of course, it may be the the Republican Party is now part of the extreme right. http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-voted-define-being-transgender-disqualifying-psychological-and-798726 OMG! This is the saddest I have felt in ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Yukle said: OMG! This is the saddest I have felt in ages. Apologies. that wasn't my intent. I do think people are better off when they know what is going on, that may affect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Valley Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) I made out with a girl I dated for a while before Mr. Fling. When I went to go talk to her about it, we were surrounded by community shit (about kids) and their accompanying problems. In context, I made out with her in a very communal area (my Mardi Gras ball) and was rather happy about it. OTOH, I'm in NO POSITION to be making out with people that aren't disposable. This girl is not disposable. In other news, I haven't shared here. I'm probably not getting married. Still living with the gf, but we broke up in December. I'm totally devastated about my end-of-dream, but fine with how our relationship is at this time. Pretty sure I'm acting nuts, but I haven't had sex at all in a very long time (over a year) and I'm GOING to at some point over the next ten days. I am not a liar, but I have been a soft-peddler. Help me out with make-out girl. It's not the right time for me to court her, but EVERYTIME I see her we make out or go home and make out. I need to tell her what's going on with my domestic situation. She hasn't exactly asked, but there wasn't really a good chance. I brought her soup and a book at work. I recognize that this looks like courtship behavior and I need to really talk to her ASAP. What are the rules? This whole situation is uncomfortable as fuck. Edited February 7, 2018 by Lily Valley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) @Lily Valley, I lack the knowledge to be of any help, but I do know that if anyone is capable to dealing with these issues, it is you. Edited February 7, 2018 by Robin Of House Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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