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LGBTQ+ 6 -- It's a Rainbow of Flavors


Xray the Enforcer
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Reminder: This thread is for the discussion of issues relating to the lives of LBGTQ+ (lesbian, bisexual, gay, transgender/transsexual, queer/questioning) people. This thread aims to be a supportive space for issues on sexuality and gender identities. Please do not post comments that negate, belittle, or insult people's chosen identity.

This thread operates with a number of givens, including (but not limited to): that equal marriage rights are human rights, and thus are not subject to debate in this thread; that bisexuality is a legitimate orientation and is not up for debate in this thread; among others. This is not an exhaustive list, and it is up to the mods' discretion what is or isn't a legitimate avenue of debate. 

 

Edited by Xray the Enforcer
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On 26/01/2018 at 7:43 PM, Robin Of House Hill said:

Why am I always the one to point out how the current reality is worse than the old one?  But, I'll be honest.  These statistics aren't as bad as I thought they would be.    https://www.glaad.org/files/aa/Accelerating Acceptance 2018.pdf  But category 2 is worrisome.

I thought the acceptance of gay marriage one was pretty depressing, I'd have thought legalisation would have made it go the other way. Regular conservative people tend be relatively quick to give way on these kinds of things. Like in the U.K, first we had Civil Partnerships, and conservatives opposed them. A few years later and those same people are saying "we don't need gay marriage, I support gay equality, but we have that through civil partnerships!". Maybe it will take a few years.

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I think it's unwise to take that data in a vacuum. If you subbed in "atheist" or "Jew" or "Muslim" in any of those questions, you'd see a similar jump in people willing to admit that they're retrograde dipshits. As such, while it's depressing, it's part of our dumpster-fire cultural zeitgeist, rather than growing animus against LGBTQ+ people in particular. And, yes, I do think that's an important distinction.

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I like the quote at the end of the document: "Forward progress ebbs and flows in every social justice movement."

If you were born a gay man or woman in 50BCE within the city of Rome, nobody would have cared. Emperor Hadrian was openly gay, for instance. 1,000 years later and it was cause for disinheritance - at best.

It says a lot about how people like me, who don't fall into the category of LGBTQIA+ must work so hard at supporting fellow humans' need for the recognition of their rights. There really isn't an excuse for the institutionalised discrimination that exists and it's disheartening to see a drop in those classified "allies" in the document.

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The problem I see is in the section entitled "A Shift From Allies to Detached Supporters."  I'd really like to see an ind depth analysis of why that drift is occurring.  Whether its a case of people protecting themselves in an increasingly problematic political climate, or the specifics of what is making people uneasy.

And yes, there is always a pendulum effect to progress in the social arena, but with the mobilization of reactionary forces, this is starting to look like one step forward and two steps back.

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20 hours ago, Yukle said:

If you were born a gay man or woman in 50BCE within the city of Rome, nobody would have cared. Emperor Hadrian was openly gay, for instance. 1,000 years later and it was cause for disinheritance - at best.

It says a lot about how people like me, who don't fall into the category of LGBTQIA+ must work so hard at supporting fellow humans' need for the recognition of their rights. There really isn't an excuse for the institutionalised discrimination that exists and it's disheartening to see a drop in those classified "allies" in the document.

It's an interesting topic, because the normal Roman view of homosexuality would still be considered highly offensive today, they thought recieving was absolutely shameful, in fact I'm sure I read it was a crime for a patrician to take the submissive role to a plebian. It's certainly a mistake when people assume every society before 1960 ever was Victorian style homophobic, but at the same time I'm not aware of any that view homosexuality as modern, liberal society does.

It's a pretty generous definition of "ally". None of those things make me uncomfortable, but I don't call myself a gay ally, anymore than I'm a black ally, a Muslim ally, etc, just an egalitarian. Don't you actually have to,y'know, do something to be an ally?

16 hours ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

The problem I see is in the section entitled "A Shift From Allies to Detached Supporters."  I'd really like to see an ind depth analysis of why that drift is occurring.  Whether its a case of people protecting themselves in an increasingly problematic political climate, or the specifics of what is making people uneasy.

And yes, there is always a pendulum effect to progress in the social arena, but with the mobilization of reactionary forces, this is starting to look like one step forward and two steps back.

Even in a private survey, could it partly be that people just feel emboldened, even subconsciously, by seeing powerful figures openly voicing bigoted views? I thinks socialisation is a strong enough force that it could effect whether someone would tick a box saying they felt uncomfortable around gay people, if they felt that was taboo.

Edited by mankytoes
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2 hours ago, mankytoes said:

 

Even in a private survey, could it partly be that people just feel emboldened, even subconsciously, by seeing powerful figures openly voicing bigoted views? I thinks socialisation is a strong enough force that it could effect whether someone would tick a box saying they felt uncomfortable around gay people, if they felt that was taboo.

I think it is simpler than that.  When people see that those in power are attacking a group, they worry what will happen if those in power see them as supporting that group.  It's a reaction based on fear of what may happen to themselves.

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On 1/28/2018 at 0:15 PM, mankytoes said:

I thought the acceptance of gay marriage one was pretty depressing, I'd have thought legalisation would have made it go the other way. Regular conservative people tend be relatively quick to give way on these kinds of things. Like in the U.K, first we had Civil Partnerships, and conservatives opposed them. A few years later and those same people are saying "we don't need gay marriage, I support gay equality, but we have that through civil partnerships!". Maybe it will take a few years.

Eh, I think the government just needs to get out have the marriage business altogether. In theory there's supposed to be separation of church and state, and too much of matrimony has it's roots in religion. If that requires rewriting tax codes and things to recognize households as opposed to marriages so much the better. It gets the government out of the business of picking and choosing what to and not to recognize, which is what we have now.

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Piece of human garbage Steven Anderson (the piece of literal trash who said that there were '50 less pedophiles in the world' after the Pulse shooting) was planning to go to Jamaica to seep his vile trash juice at the UWI campus in Kingston. 

A petition was started a while back to get the government to disallow it, and today he was officially banned from entering the country at all. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/29/jamaica-bans-anti-gay-arizona-pastor-from-visiting-country

Small steps forward I guess. Still have those awful laws on the books though :\ 

 

Edited by KiDisaster
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5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Eh, I think the government just needs to get out have the marriage business altogether. In theory there's supposed to be separation of church and state, and too much of matrimony has it's roots in religion. If that requires rewriting tax codes and things to recognize households as opposed to marriages so much the better. It gets the government out of the business of picking and choosing what to and not to recognize, which is what we have now.

This is just the old 'marriage is a religious institution' argument, which is historically untrue and a pointless nonsense anyway. The government is no more capable of getting 'out of the marriage business' than it is of abolishing war. Marriage is a government business and so it must be equal.

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15 hours ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

I think it is simpler than that.  When people see that those in power are attacking a group, they worry what will happen if those in power see them as supporting that group.  It's a reaction based on fear of what may happen to themselves.

Sounds very plausable, like a natural survival tactic. A bit like little kids no longer wanting to be friends with the one who wet himself in class. I'd think that thought of thing was mainly subconscious?

 

13 hours ago, KiDisaster said:

Piece of human garbage Steven Anderson (the piece of literal trash who said that there were '50 less pedophiles in the world' after the Pulse shooting) was planning to go to Jamaica to seep his vile trash juice at the UWI campus in Kingston. 

A petition was started a while back to get the government to disallow it, and today he was officially banned from entering the country at all. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/29/jamaica-bans-anti-gay-arizona-pastor-from-visiting-country

Small steps forward I guess. Still have those awful laws on the books though :\ 

 

That sounds really positive, considering how homophobic my impression of Jamaica is.

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10 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Sounds very plausable, like a natural survival tactic. A bit like little kids no longer wanting to be friends with the one who wet himself in class. I'd think that thought of thing was mainly subconscious?

 

I cringe at the analogy, but I can't argue with it.  When those not directly threatened start backing away,  the threat must be perceived as real.

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On 2/4/2018 at 3:46 AM, Robin Of House Hill said:

In case anyone thought the problem was only the extreme right.  Of course, it may be the the Republican Party is now part of the extreme right.

http://www.newsweek.com/republicans-voted-define-being-transgender-disqualifying-psychological-and-798726

OMG! This is the saddest I have felt in ages. :(

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I made out with a girl I dated for a while before Mr. Fling.  When I went to go talk to her about it, we were surrounded by community shit (about kids) and their accompanying problems.  In context, I made out with her in a very communal area (my Mardi Gras ball) and was rather happy about it.  OTOH, I'm in NO POSITION to be making out with people that aren't disposable.  This girl is not disposable. 

In other news, I haven't shared here.  I'm probably not getting married.  Still living with the gf, but we broke up in December.  I'm totally devastated about my end-of-dream, but fine with how our relationship is at this time.  

Pretty sure I'm acting nuts, but I haven't had sex at all in a very long time (over a year) and I'm GOING to at some point over the next ten days.  

I am not a liar, but I have been a soft-peddler.  Help me out with make-out girl.  It's not the right time for me to court her, but EVERYTIME I see her we make out or go home and make out.  I need to tell her what's going on with my domestic situation.  She hasn't exactly asked, but there wasn't really a good chance.  

I brought her soup and a book at work.  I recognize that this looks like courtship behavior and I need to really talk to her ASAP.  

What are the rules?  This whole situation is uncomfortable as fuck. 

 

Edited by Lily Valley
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