The "Podrick is Tysha's Daughter" Thread: Unapologetically Wild Speculation

[hiemal]

It is clear to me that something is going on with Podrick and this is my best guess.

Why do I suspect that Podrick might be another Danny Flint/Sarella Sand? Fumble-tongued and shy, he nevertheless is comfortable sharing a room with Lady Brienne. He has issues with her gender, "Ser/Lady" slipping out almost constantly- could this because he is going through something similar? On the way to Quiet Isle, Brother Meribald makes a few comments on girls that make me wonder. Pod's given history seems doubtful to me for a few reasons. His lack of any kind of martial training coupled with his ability to read and his familiarity with the sigils of Houses half the Realm away show that he received a quality education- but not one that is typically given to boys. Tywin's apparent familiarity with Pod strecthes my credibility as well. Tywin is not the sort to mingle with his troops- so why should he concern himself with this particular case of "justice" to the point of sending Pod to "squire" for Tyrion (who is less a knight than Brienne in every way but that he comes with his sword)? "Podrick" doesn't sound like a Westerland name- it sounds Northern to me- granted, Jaime and Cersei don't sound Westron either (did Tywin or Joanna name those two? I assume Tyrin named Tyrion?), but then again maybe that's the point... "Jeyne, Jeyne- it rhymes with Payne!"  

Where does Tysha fit in? Well, for starters the sigil for House Payne, gold coins on purple and white chequy is within spitting distance of Tyrion's imagined sigil for Tysha of silver coins on a bloody sheet and piques my interest. Tywin's fascination with whores and the disparity, I suspect, between the man and the Lord he was forced to become for his family, is part of it. He gobbled Tyrion's sloppy seconds with Shae and I suspect he may have done so with his father's mistress after her Walk of Shame. Perhaps he even brought her to Chataya's so he could visit through the the passage Tyrion used, the son following the father down that particular vaginal symbol in this case in the usual Oedipal order. Speaking of Oedipus- we have a sphinx, the weird incesty triangle, and if no actual Tiresias we do have the blind dispensing wisdom and several instances of gender-bending as well as House Paege's sigil of intertwined serpents... Apparently, Tywin's bed is "where whores go" so I could easily see him taking an interest in Tysha.

Who is the father? I suspect that Tyrion is a mule as well as a sphinx- he would field an army of bastards that would "dwarf" even Walder Frey's brood otherwise. It could be Tywin, but I suspect that Podrick is another baby of a hundred fathers, like Lollys' little Tyrion and that is another play on the virgin-birth inversion that usually plays out as the mother dying in childbirth. That concept is to explored more fully in another thread, however, but that both are linked with Tyrion is not a coincidence, I argue. As for what Tywin's purpose is in uniting these two- I'm still working on that. The difference between public Tywin and inner Tywin is great enough to deny easy speculation, but it seems a lot of trouble to go through just to twist a couple tails.

I've also speculated that Pod is one of the Barratheon byblows that were fathered and supposedly strangled at the Rock or that he is a lost scion of House Reyne or Tarbeck. But I'm putting my money on Pod being Tysha's rape baby. Any other wild Podrick tinfoil out there? I'd love to hear it!

 

[Mordred]

It is wild speculation but so is R+L=J.  You're in good company my friend.  This is the place for wild speculations.

Tyrion would have fathered too many undersized bastards by now.  He's sterile.  His sperm is no good.  So yeah if the lad is the son of Tysha it's from one of the men who gang raped her. 

[Kandrax]

2 hours ago, hiemal said:

It is clear to me that something is going on with Podrick and this is my best guess.

Why do I suspect that Podrick might be another Danny Flint/Sarella Sand? Fumble-tongued and shy, he nevertheless is comfortable sharing a room with Lady Brienne. He has issues with her gender, "Ser/Lady" slipping out almost constantly- could this because he is going through something similar? On the way to Quiet Isle, Brother Meribald makes a few comments on girls that make me wonder. Pod's given history seems doubtful to me for a few reasons. His lack of any kind of martial training coupled with his ability to read and his familiarity with the sigils of Houses half the Realm away show that he received a quality education- but not one that is typically given to boys. Tywin's apparent familiarity with Pod strecthes my credibility as well. Tywin is not the sort to mingle with his troops- so why should he concern himself with this particular case of "justice" to the point of sending Pod to "squire" for Tyrion (who is less a knight than Brienne in every way but that he comes with his sword)? "Podrick" doesn't sound like a Westerland name- it sounds Northern to me- granted, Jaime and Cersei don't sound Westron either (did Tywin or Joanna name those two? I assume Tyrin named Tyrion?), but then again maybe that's the point... "Jeyne, Jeyne- it rhymes with Payne!"  

Where does Tysha fit in? Well, for starters the sigil for House Payne, gold coins on purple and white chequy is within spitting distance of Tyrion's imagined sigil for Tysha of silver coins on a bloody sheet and piques my interest. Tywin's fascination with whores and the disparity, I suspect, between the man and the Lord he was forced to become for his family, is part of it. He gobbled Tyrion's sloppy seconds with Shae and I suspect he may have done so with his father's mistress after her Walk of Shame. Perhaps he even brought her to Chataya's so he could visit through the the passage Tyrion used, the son following the father down that particular vaginal symbol in this case in the usual Oedipal order. Speaking of Oedipus- we have a sphinx, the weird incesty triangle, and if no actual Tiresias we do have the blind dispensing wisdom and several instances of gender-bending as well as House Paege's sigil of intertwined serpents... Apparently, Tywin's bed is "where whores go" so I could easily see him taking an interest in Tysha.

Who is the father? I suspect that Tyrion is a mule as well as a sphinx- he would field an army of bastards that would "dwarf" even Walder Frey's brood otherwise. It could be Tywin, but I suspect that Podrick is another baby of a hundred fathers, like Lollys' little Tyrion and that is another play on the virgin-birth inversion that usually plays out as the mother dying in childbirth. That concept is to explored more fully in another thread, however, but that both are linked with Tyrion is not a coincidence, I argue. As for what Tywin's purpose is in uniting these two- I'm still working on that. The difference between public Tywin and inner Tywin is great enough to deny easy speculation, but it seems a lot of trouble to go through just to twist a couple tails.

I've also speculated that Pod is one of the Barratheon byblows that were fathered and supposedly strangled at the Rock or that he is a lost scion of House Reyne or Tarbeck. But I'm putting my money on Pod being Tysha's rape baby. Any other wild Podrick tinfoil out there? I'd love to hear it!

 

Still better than Craster was Rhaegar theory.

[Nevets]

3 hours ago, hiemal said:

It is clear to me that something is going on with Podrick and this is my best guess

You mean, other than the fact that he is loyal to a fault and extremely persistent?  I'm not seeing it.

I'm not sure whether I should dignify this theory with a response.  Oh, well, into the breach.

Podrick was reprieved because his name was Payne and he was related to Ilyn Payne.  Jaime mentions that Tywin felt a debt of honor to Ser Ilyn because he had his tongue ripped out because of a remark about Tywin's power that Aerys didn't like.  Giving a reprieve to Ilyn's distant cousin is nothing more than further repayment on that debt.  And because Podrick is a young child and clearly not the instigator of the theft, it really doesn't cost him anything.   

Tywin didn't place Podrick with Tyrion; Kevan did.  And that was because he didn't know what else to do with him.  He probably figured Tyrion would need help and Podrick was available.

Podrick a girl??!!  You must be joking!  Podrick and Brirenne have been traveling for months, and under conditions not conducive to privacy.  If Podrick was a girl, Brienne would have noticed.  And it would have been mentioned in her POV.  Martin may occasionally withhold information, but not to that extent.

1 hour ago, Superzapper Recharge said:

It is wild speculation but so is R+L=J.  You're in good company my friend.  This is the place for wild speculations

R+L=J is based on clear indications in the text.  this is based on ... not much at all.   Wild speculation with nothing to back it up.

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Superzapper Recharge said:

It is wild speculation but so is R+L=J. 

People need to learn the definition of "wild" and "speculation"  before they post in here 

 

2 hours ago, Superzapper Recharge said:

Tyrion would have fathered too many undersized bastards by now.  He's sterile.  His sperm is no good.  So yeah if the lad is the son of Tysha it's from one of the men who gang raped her. 

Says who? People have access to pregnancy terminating tea. It is a convenient plot device, and because of it there is no reason to think that Tyrion is sterile 

[Lady Dacey]

I just wanna say I read the title and thought it was a ridiculous idea, but then I read what you came up with and I really enjoyed it. I'm not convinced, but there are certainly interesting aspects to your tinfoil. Thank you for sharing with us. 

Its late now and I must go to sleep, but I hope to come back to this thread when my brain is working properly and comment some more. 

[hiemal]

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

You mean, other than the fact that he is loyal to a fault and extremely persistent?  I'm not seeing it.

I'm not sure whether I should dignify this theory with a response.  Oh, well, into the breach.

Podrick was reprieved because his name was Payne and he was related to Ilyn Payne.  Jaime mentions that Tywin felt a debt of honor to Ser Ilyn because he had his tongue ripped out because of a remark about Tywin's power that Aerys didn't like.

To me, that is the strongest argument that Podrick is exactly what he seems- the two Paynes both having trouble finding their tongues...

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

 Giving a reprieve to Ilyn's distant cousin is nothing more than further repayment on that debt.  And because Podrick is a young child and clearly not the instigator of the theft, it really doesn't cost him anything.   Tywin didn't place Podrick with Tyrion; Kevan did.  And that was because he didn't know what else to do with him.  He probably figured Tyrion would need help and Podrick was available.

That is what is told to us, anyways- and of course, it could well be true and there is nothing more to it. If Pod was assigned to Tyrion other than convenience, as Tyrion suspects, Kevan would, imho, be a lion's paw for his brother. Of couse, Tyrion could be being paranoid or sardonic. Or both.

 

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

Podrick a girl??!!  You must be joking!  Podrick and Brirenne have been traveling for months, and under conditions not conducive to privacy.  If Podrick was a girl, Brienne would have noticed.  And it would have been mentioned in her POV.  Martin may occasionally withhold information, but not to that extent.

Not exactly joking, but I do admit I may be selling it a bit harder that I feel is truly justified. Mostly I'd like to hear some ideas from others about what they think might be going on with one my personal favorite non-PoV characters (if anything). I'm not so sure about Brienne noticing, though- apparently others have managed to pull off their charades better than the two little girls that Jon picks out of the mob of hostages. Danny Flint must have fooled his Brothers for sometime before her unfortunate discovery and Sarella continues his subterfuge still, like the twin sphinxes that guard the gate, male and female. Pod doesn't draw attention to himself by nature and squires are meant to be in the background anyways. I think he could pull it off. For a while anyways. Depends on how much focus Brienne pays to things like her squire's toilet habits. I don't know how old Pod claims to be but if he were a girl he would probable assume a younger age along with her gender pronouns and that might make it easier to fool Brienne during physical training.

[hiemal]

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

 

Says who? People have access to pregnancy terminating tea. It is a convenient plot device, and because of it there is no reason to think that Tyrion is sterile 

The only reason I can actually think of is Bronn naming his stepson Tyrion as much as a kind of legacy to his former employer as to twist Cersei's tail (or instead of? Casually pissing Cersei off seems a dumb career move for someone as canny as Bronn) and that's not really compelling. This one is more of a hunch, based on some weird symbolism I'm playing around with. And, of course, the notion that what with Lannisters shitting gold there would be at least enterprising woman who figures they ejaculate it as well, and wants to cash in on a noble bastard?

[hiemal]

Total spur-of-the-moment left-field spitball :

What if Varys isn't a eunuch at all, but a woman? Playing someone who had been cut like that would seem to be easier than playing a man (even a young one like Pod or Alleras) although the change in social status seems dubious. Varys shaves his head and doesn't wear anything clingy. He could just be making stuff up about the sorcerer and the voice from the flames.

"I have heard it said that poison is a woman's weapon."

Pycelle stroked his beard thoughtfully. "It is said. Women, cravens … and eunuchs." He cleared his throat and spat a thick glob of phlegm onto the rushes. Above them, a raven cawed loudly in the rookery. "The Lord Varys was born a slave in Lys, did you know? Put not your trust in spiders, my lord."... AGoT

Hmmmmm, Varys is already a kind of twisted mother figure to the little birds. What if Varys was (f)Aegon's mother and the hands and talk of a sister just a red herring?

Just tossing it out there.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

I once had a theory that Podrick Payne was somewhat closely related to Ilyn Payne and that's why Tywin spared him, alas, it was not very interesting.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

Not too bad of an idea, especially since Pod was born around the time when Tyrion and Tysha were together, and Pod has lack hair, like Tysha.

Still not quite convinced though.

[Corvo the Crow]

The Sailor's Wife in Braavos who only beds those who marry her has a daughter, Lanna, a golden haired prostitute who is worth more than the other girls. If anyone is Tyrion's child, it is her because, yeah, "A Lannister is worth more".

[Dorian Martell's son]

15 hours ago, hiemal said:

The only reason I can actually think of is Bronn naming his stepson Tyrion as much as a kind of legacy to his former employer as to twist Cersei's tail (or instead of? Casually pissing Cersei off seems a dumb career move for someone as canny as Bronn) and that's not really compelling. This one is more of a hunch, based on some weird symbolism I'm playing around with. And, of course, the notion that what with Lannisters shitting gold there would be at least enterprising woman who figures they ejaculate it as well, and wants to cash in on a noble bastard?

This is a possibility, but I think it is far more to do with Bronn honoring the man who took him from being a crusty sellsword to personal guard, on through battle glory, knighthood to lord of a castle 

[hiemal]

4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

The Sailor's Wife in Braavos who only beds those who marry her has a daughter, Lanna, a golden haired prostitute who is worth more than the other girls. If anyone is Tyrion's child, it is her because, yeah, "A Lannister is worth more".

I have her pegged for the daughter of Gerion- he already has one daughter from the wrong side of the sheets. That would also make sense, however.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

@hiemal I read this your post this morning and had a few laughs but did not think much of it, but I'm re-reading ACOK and came across this delightful quote for you from Tyrion III...

Quote

"Within he found a boy of twelve laying out clothing on the bed; his squire, such that he was.  Podrick Payne was so shy he was furtive.  Tyrion had never quite gotten over the suspicion that his father had inflicted the boy on him as a joke."

Lots of juicy ways to read into this!

[Lord Lannister]

Sadly this doesn't even crack the top ten list of crackpot theories.

[Dorian Martell's son]

13 hours ago, hiemal said:

Total spur-of-the-moment left-field spitball :

What if Varys isn't a eunuch at all, but a woman? Playing someone who had been cut like that would seem to be easier than playing a man (even a young one like Pod or Alleras) although the change in social status seems dubious. Varys shaves his head and doesn't wear anything clingy. He could just be making stuff up about the sorcerer and the voice from the flames.

"I have heard it said that poison is a woman's weapon."

Pycelle stroked his beard thoughtfully. "It is said. Women, cravens … and eunuchs." He cleared his throat and spat a thick glob of phlegm onto the rushes. Above them, a raven cawed loudly in the rookery. "The Lord Varys was born a slave in Lys, did you know? Put not your trust in spiders, my lord."... AGoT

Hmmmmm, Varys is already a kind of twisted mother figure to the little birds. What if Varys was (f)Aegon's mother and the hands and talk of a sister just a red herring?

Just tossing it out there.

I have thought of varys being a drag king, but I find his lack of junk and therefore lack of desire for sex or an heir is a driving factor of why he is willing to play a game of decades.  

[Nevets]

19 hours ago, hiemal said:

If Pod was assigned to Tyrion other than convenience, as Tyrion suspects, Kevan would, imho, be a lion's paw for his brother. Of couse, Tyrion could be being paranoid or sardonic. Or both.

I think he is being sardonic.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time.  

19 hours ago, hiemal said:

Not exactly joking, but I do admit I may be selling it a bit harder that I feel is truly justified. Mostly I'd like to hear some ideas from others about what they think might be going on with one my personal favorite non-PoV characters (if anything).

He is one of my faves, as well.  It's why I know so much about him.  I expect his importance lies in his actions, and not in some secret of his past or present.  I anticipate something heroic, perhaps.  It is also worth noting that he knows Sansa, so can identify her and provide introductions if they ever run into her.

I also, for some reason, ship him with Arya (and (f)Arya).  They are roughly the same age and class, and unlike Edric Dayne, he has actually succeeded in killing someone.  Plus the person he is in service to is actively looking for her, which means they might actually meet. 

[hiemal]

45 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I have thought of varys being a drag king, but I find his lack of junk and therefore lack of desire for sex or an heir is a driving factor of why he is willing to play a game of decades.  

That's an interesting point.

[hiemal]

1 hour ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

@hiemal I read this your post this morning and had a few laughs but did not think much of it, but I'm re-reading ACOK and came across this delightful quote for you from Tyrion III...

Lots of juicy ways to read into this!

That's one of the ones that got this train of thought moving forward. I'm doing a reread myself and looking for Pod stuff in particular but I haven't gotten that far and couldn't for the life of me remember enough to to a search on the Ice and Fire site. Thanks!