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Least favorite theory?

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3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Arya just murdered a guy who had done nothing to her or anyone for as far as she knows to keep the approval of a murderous cult because she searching meaning.

Ah, the old insurance fraudster! This one has gone round and round, too. (Funny how people love this guy.) Remember when Arya was running with the Brotherhood w/o Banners, and they attacked a village and she thinks on how it's war, and in a war, the soldiers have to follow orders? So take any man in an army. When the action starts, his duty is to kill or disable as many of the opposing army as he can. He doesn't know any of them. They haven't done anything to him. But this is okay for him? Same difference.

Arya doesn't think of the House of Black&White as what we, in the 21st, would call a "cult." It's an order of assassins, founded on establishing justice. She has joined them and is following the program, trusting that they know what they're doing. But you may have missed the part where she observes the old dude for day after day, trying to figure out why he's been marked for death, trying to get some sort of justification to herself that he should die. When the Kindly Man explains insurance fraud, then she understands.

3 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

I'm sorry for the entirely off topic post. 

Not at all! I had no idea there were Rambo books; probably a lot better than the movies. Stallone really is a zombie. I'll add them to my reading list.

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2 hours ago, Beathag said:

However, a bit off point, do we need three Targs any longer?  There are only two fired-up dragons.  To have an extra Targ roaming around without a dragon may well cause problems.  Or is the leader of the White Walkers a Targ?  Is there any way to "save" the ice dragon and reunite him with the two?

Well, now you're conflating the teevie series with the books! In the books, all three dragons are alive, Dany has not yet gotten to Westeros (we can hope it will one day occur), and there are no "White Walkers", just "wight walkers". The alien-type creatures (and they really are; read the Game of Thrones prelude) are known as The Others. Plus, no ice dragon. GRRM says his "ice dragon" was in a different story/different world than ASOIAF.

That said, there was a good Simpsons re-run last night with lots of Game of Thrones allusions (and Nikolaj Coster-Waldeau). After the dragon is killed by freezing, the Homer Serfson character desperately builds a wood fire in its mouth, trying to revive it. Might be worth a try.

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I'm with the Bloodraven was behind everything being bogus and dissatisfying not to mention negating the considerable pool of magic and human talent all over the place.   

But I think the theory I dislike most is Jojen Paste.    It's just too creepy.   

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1 hour ago, zandru said:
5 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

Ah, the old insurance fraudster! This one has gone round and round, too. (Funny how people love this guy.) Remember when Arya was running with the Brotherhood w/o Banners, and they attacked a village and she thinks on how it's war, and in a war, the soldiers have to follow orders? So take any man in an army. When the action starts, his duty is to kill or disable as many of the opposing army as he can. He doesn't know any of them. They haven't done anything to him. But this is okay for him? Same difference.

 

Was Arya conscripted? Lots of boys in this age get forced to fight in a war to which they have no interest. No? In fact she can very quit any time she wants and be set up with a life of leisure should she just ask. Has she joined up this guild for some higher ideal? For her Country,get  family, hell  just mankind in general?  No. She joined up because she was empty and she thought joining this guild could make her feel whole. 

To compare her kills to those done by Eddard during the rebellion when he had to fight else he and everyone he loves dies

woefully unjust.

1 hour ago, zandru said:

Arya doesn't think of the House of Black&White as what we, in the 21st, would call a "cult.

It is a cult. 

Like, it's not a matter it being a different setting. A cult is small religion , not much accepted. Just about every main religion in its initial stages could be classified as a "cult".

1 hour ago, zandru said:

But you may have missed the part where she observes the old dude for day after day, trying to figure out why he's been marked for death, trying to get some sort of justification to herself that he should die. When the Kindly Man explains insurance fraud, then she understands.

MAnd she still kills the guy without having known what he had actually done; and the kindly man makes perfectly clear should she stay She is not going to merely kill those who've committed some great immoral act.

 

1 hour ago, zandru said:

t's an order of assassins, founded on establishing justice.

For the many faced God because giving death is a gift.

She like Bran seems to be toying with a dark force that they don't really understand in hope of getting better.

I honestly hope she doesn't fall off the brink but there is a risk

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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Sorry for mistakes, overlook them, please, :blush: I don't have time now to check spelling.

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The idea that Illyrio gave Daenerys three dragon's eggs because he believed she would hatch them seems a bit speculative to me. Are there any hints that either Illyrio or Varys had any prophetic abilities, or that they had interest in such prophecies? I'm not saying your wrong, I would just like to see more of a hint from the author. 

I didn't mean that they "knew" or predicted that the hatching will happen, just that they thought that to hatch a dragon egg a dragonseed/dragonblood/dragonlord is needed. Because Targaryens used to put dragon egg in a cradle with a newborn Targaryen, to bond that dragon with that baby, and thru this bond to make the egg to hatch.

What was basically done by Dany with all three eggs - she took each of them into her bed, and slept with them, and those three dragon eggs became alive even before they hatched.

Drogon:

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Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. “Khaleesi,” Jhiqui said, “what is wrong? Are you sick?”

“I was,” she answered, standing over the dragon’s eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shell. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers…or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.

From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it. Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather.

Rhaegel:

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After a moment she added, “Please, bring me one of the dragon’s eggs.”

Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her…as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. “You are the dragon,” Dany whispered to him, “the true dragon. I know it. I know it.” And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.

 Viseryon:

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“Bring me…egg…dragon’s egg…please…” Her lashes turned to lead, and she was too weary to hold them up.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragon’s egg. It was the pale one, its scales the color of butter cream, veined with whorls of gold and bronze, and Dany could feel the heat of it. Beneath her bedsilks, a fine sheen of perspiration covered her bare skin. Dragondew, she thought. Her fingers trailed lightly across the surface of the shell, tracing the wisps of gold, and deep in the stone she felt something twist and stretch in response. It did not frighten her. All her fear was gone, burned away.

So to hatch dragon egg two things are needed - prospective dragonrider and fire. Both engredients were present in Summerhall, from where seven of Targaryen dragon eggs disapeared, and in Dothraki Sea, where Dany hatched three eggs given to her by Illyrio.

Probably he didn't believed much in the possibility that Dany OR Viserys will be able to bond with those dragon souls, and hatch the eggs, but he still gave them those eggs, just in case. Also he still had 4 more, that he probably gave to fAegon, hoping that he will able to hatch them, because he also has dragonblood, even if he is fake (if he's a Blackfyre then he still can have enough dragonblood to form a bond with a dragon. Obviously that Qentin's blood wasn't pure enough. But Brown Ben Plumm's, even though his dragonlord ancestor was one generation further from him than Quentin's great grandmother Daenerys (wife of Maron Martell, and sister of Daeron the Good), was liked by dragons more than Qentin's. So it seems that eggs' hatching is like a lottery - Viserys had the same amount of dragonblood as Dany, but dragons didn't connected with him, didn't visited his dreams, he never felt a need to hold them or be close to them, like Dany had; while Dany managed to connect with all three, and hatched them.

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Perhaps. But we know he supported the Targlings in order to gain Dothraki muscle for Aegon.

I'm not so sure about that.

Seems to me that whatever was Illyrio's original plan concidering Targaryens, it changed many many times. And by the time Illyrio planned to marry Dany with Khal Drogo, and send Viserys with them to Vaes Dothrak, by that time he already didn't really supported them. He knew that Viserys will die in Dothraki Sea (because he himself planned his future death), and he didn't seriously expected that Khal Drogo will give his warriors to Viserys or Dany, and he didn't thought that either of Targaryens will hatch those dragon eggs. So when he sent Targaryen to Vaes Dothrak, he thought that he will never see them again.

Death of Viserys was part of the original plan. Though a man with poisoned wine, that became the reason why Khal Drogo agreed to support Dany in her conquest of Westeros, was added into Illyrio's plan only after Viserys' death, and after Dany became pregnant, and after there appeared a prophecy, that her son will be the Stallion that will mount the world. Only then Blackfyres decided to use Dothraki. Jorah was spying after Dany and Viserys and reporting to Varys, and Doreah was spying after Dany, Viserys and Jorah and reporting everything to Illyrio. So when Doreah reported to Illyrio about the prophecy, they decided to use it, to get support of Dothraki for fAegon. First Doreah suggested to Dany, that she should use her female charms to convince her husband to conquer 7K for her, but when that didn't worked, Varys sent a poisoner. 

He informed Robert about Dany's pregnancy, then convinced Robert to send that poisoner to kill Dany, but simultaneously he has sent a letter to Jorah, in which he informed him about that poisoner. From Doreah's reports he knew that Jorah fell in love with Dany, thus it was obvious that if he will find out about murder attempt, he will prevent it from happening. And as result of that plan, Khal Drogo decided to fight for Dany and support her claim of Iron Throne. And everything was going according to Varys' paln, until Drogo got sick and died. If that didn't happened, probably Illyrio was going to surprise Dany with revelation about her long lost relative, surviving son of her brother Rhaegar. It's obvious that if all happened like that, then Dany would have joined her forces with fAegon, and Khal Drogo supported his wife's relative to seize power in Westeros. 

But Khal Drogo died. Jorah's loyalty to Varys and Illyrio was already weivering (he was frequently suggesting to Dany to run away together to Asshai, or something like that). Doreah died while they were going thru Red Waist. But even prior she died, she didn't had an opportunity to report most recent events to her masters. Becaue there was too little people left, and thus all of them were constantly in plain sight. And if they used ravens to carry their messages, then probably they were either stolen or lost after Drogo's death, and massmigration of Dothraki that followed after that. Or if she used to send a messenger with a letter, then when there was left only a few of riders, it was out of the question to send any of them with secret messages to Illyrio, because their absence would have been noticed. So prior they arrived to Qarth, Illyrio and Varys didn't even knew about dragons. So they thought that after Drogo's death, Dany is useless to them, and it's obvious that Drogo's ex riders won't fulfill Drogo's promise to Dany and won't fight for her. But when they found out about dragons, they changed their plan again, and Illyrion wanted to get Dany back, together with her dragons. If he failed to provide fAegon with Dothraki horde, then he wanted to give him the dragons.

But original plan didn't included Drogo giving his support to fAegon. Thus Dany wasn't married with Drogo to gain that support. Thru that marriage Illyrion was just getting rid of excess peaces on his board of Game of Thrones. Dany and Viserys both were those excess figures. Though he still gave them dragon eggs, just in case.

Edited by Megorova

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37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I'm not so sure about that.

Seems to me that whatever was Illyrio's original plan concidering Targaryens, it changed many many times. And by the time Illyrio planned to marry Dany with Khal Drogo, 

This was the first plan that we are aware of. 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

and send Viserys with them to Vaes Dothrak, 

Illyrio wanted Viserys to stay with him in Pentos. 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

by that time he already didn't really supported them.

Illyrio never supported them. He let them wander from place to place becoming more and more desperate, until Daenerys was old enough to wed to Drogo. 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

He knew that Viserys will die in Dothraki Sea (because he himself planned his future death), 

How do you know this? Isn't it possible that Illyrio hoped to have Viserys vouch for his brother's son? If Viserys refused, he could have Strong Belwas sew him up in a sack with some stone and toss him into the Bay of Pentos to swim with the fishes. If Viserys had vouched for Aegon, perhaps Illyrio could have arranged for Viserys to wed Arianne and become Prince Dorne. Why throw away a potential asset as valuable as Viserys? 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

and he didn't seriously expected that Khal Drogo will give his warriors to Viserys or Dany,

That's not what Tristan Rivers tells. Tristan tells us that the fat man planned to have Viserys join them with 50 thousand Dothraki screamers. 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

and he didn't thought that either of Targaryens will hatch those dragon eggs.

I thought you said he hoped the Targlings would hatch the eggs? 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

So when he sent Targaryen to Vaes Dothrak, he thought that he will never see them again.

Death of Viserys was part of the original plan.

Then why did Illyrio weep for the plans he had made after Viserys was killed? 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Though a man with poisoned wine, that became the reason why Khal Drogo agreed to support Dany in her conquest of Westeros, was added into Illyrio's plan only after Viserys' death,

The assassination attempt was set in motion before Viserys was killed. And wasn't the reason for the assassination attempt to goad Drogo into attacking earlier than expected? 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

and after Dany became pregnant, and after there appeared a prophecy, that her son will be the Stallion that will mount the world. Only then Blackfyres decided to use Dothraki.

Doesn't Illyrio or Jorah or both of them explain that the Dothraki will only fight for Viserys if their omens favor war? And only after Drogo presents his bride and potential heir to the dosh khaleen? 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Jorah was spying after Dany and Viserys and reporting to Varys, and Doreah was spying after Dany, Viserys and Jorah and reporting everything to Illyrio. So when Doreah reported to Illyrio about the prophecy, they decided to use it, to get support of Dothraki for fAegon. 

What? How did you reach this conclusion? 

37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

First Doreah suggested to Dany, that she should use her female charms to convince her husband to conquer 7K for her,

Hey, I like that... I never thought of that, and I have never seen that suggested. 

40 minutes ago, Megorova said:

From Doreah's reports he knew that Jorah fell in love with Dany,

But where does the author suggest that Doreah is reporting back to Illyrio? 

42 minutes ago, Megorova said:

And everything was going according to Varys' paln, until Drogo got sick and died. If that didn't happened, probably Illyrio was going to surprise Dany with revelation about her long lost relative, surviving son of her brother Rhaegar. It's obvious that if all happened like that, then Dany would have joined her forces with fAegon, and Khal Drogo supported his wife's relative to seize power in Westeros. 

Wait, didn't you say Illyrio didn't expect Drogo to give his fighters to Viserys or Daenerys? 

44 minutes ago, Megorova said:

So prior they arrived to Qarth, Illyrio and Varys didn't even knew about dragons. So they thought that after Drogo's death, Dany is useless to them, and it's obvious that Drogo's ex riders won't fulfill Drogo's promise to Dany and won't fight for her. But when they found out about dragons, they changed their plan again, and Illyrion wanted to get Dany back, together with her dragons. If he failed to provide fAegon with Dothraki horde, then he wanted to give him the dragons.

Clearly.

46 minutes ago, Megorova said:

But original plan didn't included Drogo giving his support to fAegon. Thus Dany wasn't married with Drogo to gain that support. Thru that marriage Illyrion was just getting rid of excess peaces on his board of Game of Thrones. Dany and Viserys both were those excess figures. Though he still gave them dragon eggs, just in case.

Why not? If all he wanted to do was have Viserys and Daenerys removed, he could have them sewn into sacks with stones and tossed into the Bay of Pentos. 

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12 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The idea that Bloodraven is the Three-Eyed-Crow...

and that Varys’s disguises are mundane and not supernatural.

That's not a theory. It's a fact.

My least favorite theory is that Littlefinger is descended from House Reyne or House Targaryen. Just let him be Littlefinger.

And could the Blackfyre Or Not discussion maybe go to another thread? Perhaps one of the dozens I'm sure already exist on said topic?

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10 hours ago, Beathag said:

Since those of us who have been mulling theories over for 20-odd years or so knew Jon was a Targ, it was no shock that R+L=J. 

My least favorite theory is that Tyrion is a Targ. I would like him to inherit the Rock, and continue as his father writ small. And have all that is due him - the Queen's or King's Hand, for instance. However, a bit off point, do we need three Targs any longer?  There are only two fired-up dragons.  To have an extra Targ roaming around without a dragon may well cause problems.  Or is the leader of the White Walkers a Targ?  Is there any way to "save" the ice dragon and reunite him with the two?

My other least favorite theory is that Dany and Arya are psychopaths --  these women are doing what they must to get by and have been from early on.  Jamie, Sander, Jon, and so forth, have been killing and no one has decided they are psychopaths.

In the books there are still three.

Moving on...

I'm sure that there are people who think that my most hated theory is that Aegon is a Blackfyre. Nope, what I hate about that theory is that at least 90% of their "evidence" is pure bullshit and repeating it over and over doesn't make it any better. Despite what some may think, I'm actually a strong supporter of the idea that Illyrio is the descendent of Aegor Rivers and Dalla Blackfyre, making him the Blackfyre of the female line. There is a minimal possibility of Illyrio being Aegon's father, but Serra is definitely not his mother. Whether Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Elia hinges entirely upon why Varys and Illyrio are doing what they are doing. If it turns out they are prophecy junkies, then Aegon will definitely be Rhaegar's son. Anyhow, Varys and Illyrio had their hands on three Targaryens at one point. This is not inconsequential in my opinion.

No, the theory I hate the most is Cantuse's theory that Robb's will was given to a citizen of Oldtown to take to there to "protect" it. This is like the Allied commanders in WWII sending their backup plans to Berlin for safe keeping. Honestly, it blows my mind that anyone thinks this is a good theory. If Robb and company trusted this ship's captain that much, why did they make him go outside while they were discussing their plans?

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8 hours ago, zandru said:

Well, now you're conflating the teevie series with the books! In the books, all three dragons are alive, Dany has not yet gotten to Westeros (we can hope it will one day occur), and there are no "White Walkers", just "wight walkers".

Huh. I could swear...

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Mormont was deaf to the edge in his voice. "The fisherfolk near Eastwatch have glimpsed white walkers on the shore."

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"Oh, my sweet summer child," Old Nan said quietly, "what do you know of fear? Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods."

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"Mance be damned," the big man cursed. "You want to go back there, Osha? More fool you. Think the white walkers will care if you have a hostage?" He turned back to Bran and slashed at the strap around his thigh. The leather parted with a sigh.

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"Giants and worse than giants, Lordling. I tried to tell your brother when he asked his questions, him and your maester and that smiley boy Greyjoy. The cold winds are rising, and men go out from their fires and never come back … or if they do, they're not men no more, but only wights, with blue eyes and cold black hands. Why do you think I run south with Stiv and Hali and the rest of them fools? Mance thinks he'll fight, the brave sweet stubborn man, like the white walkers were no more than rangers, but what does he know?"

 
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"And there are still giants there, and . . . the rest . . . the Others, and the children of the forest too?"
"The giants I've seen, the children I've heard tell of, and the white walkers . . . why do you want to know?"
"Did you ever see a three-eyed crow?"
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The horn blew thrice long, three long blasts means Others. The white walkers of the wood, the cold shadows, the monsters of the tales that made him squeak and tremble as a boy, riding their giant ice-spiders, hungry for blood . . .

 

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"You must tell them, Sam," he said. "The archmaesters. You must make them understand. The men who were at the Citadel when I was have been dead for fifty years. These others never knew me. My letters . . . in Oldtown, they must have read like the ravings of an old man whose wits had fled. You must convince them, where I could not. Tell them, Sam . . . tell them how it is upon the Wall . . . the wights and the white walkers, the creeping cold . . ."

 

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"The white walkers go lightly on the snow," the ranger said. "You'll find no prints to mark their passage." A raven descended from above to settle on his shoulder. Only a dozen of the big black birds remained with them. The rest had vanished along the way; every dawn when they arose, there had been fewer of them. "Come," the bird squawked. "Come, come."

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For now. "We hold the Wall. The Wall protects the realm … and you now. You know the foe we face. You know what's coming down on us. Some of you have faced them before. Wights and white walkers, dead things with blue eyes and black hands. I've seen them too, fought them, sent one to hell. They kill, then they send your dead against you.


 

 

Quote

 

"Winter is coming," Jon said at last, breaking the awkward silence, "and with it the white walkers. The Wall is where we stop them. The Wall was made to stop them … but the Wall must be manned.

No, you're right, no white walkers in the books. ;)

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12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I'm with the Bloodraven was behind everything being bogus and dissatisfying not to mention negating the considerable pool of magic and human talent all over the place.   

But I think the theory I dislike most is Jojen Paste.    It's just too creepy.   

I have no opinion on Jojen paste being true or not but I don't think it would be too out there for this story. I could definitely see Martin including something like that.

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4 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

No, you're right, no white walkers in the books. ;)

!!!!  Looks as if you've got me! Thanks for the enlightenment!

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13 hours ago, zandru said:

Not at all! I had no idea there were Rambo books; probably a lot better than the movies. Stallone really is a zombie. I'll add them to my reading list.

...And then join a Rambo forum and keep reminding people not to mix book Rambo with the TV Rambo :lol:

Maybe you can recommend them to me if you come to them first. 

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15 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Was Arya conscripted?

Okay, this whole thing seems to be a philosophical difference of opinion. It's great for trained knights and men at arms to kill total strangers who have never offended them because they're following orders, but it's an abomination for a little girl to do so. Check.

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2 hours ago, zandru said:

Okay, this whole thing seems to be a philosophical difference of opinion. It's great for trained knights and men at arms to kill total strangers who have never offended them because they're following orders, but it's an abomination for a little girl to do so. Check.

All killing no matter the reason or context is equally morally egregious. A 15 least year old boy conscripted to fight and kill in a war had as much choice for disobeying horrific orders with the penalty being death as Arya whose penalty could simply being kicked out and into a life of leisure and comfort. 

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4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

All killing no matter the reason or context is equally morally egregious. A 15 least year old boy conscripted to fight and kill in a war had as much choice for disobeying horrific orders with the penalty being death as Arya whose penalty could simply being kicked out and into a life of leisure and comfort. 

I could not disagree more, and I question your understanding of morality.

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19 hours ago, mankytoes said:

I've got to go with Tyrion Targ, because there are a lot of hints to it in the text. But it would be bad writing, it would undermine the whole story. I don't like it because I'm a little worried it's true.

I agree with this completely. Worst theory ever, but sadly from what the show has shown us in addition to text from TWOIAF, I sadly see this being true.

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13 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

A 15 least year old boy conscripted to fight and kill

Oh, but we're not talking about child draftees - we're talking about men who have voluntarily trained much of their lives to kill other men, and who have long dreamed of doing so. Many of them even take oaths of how honorable and morally good they will be. Like little Bran aspired to. And yes, these guys kill folks they don't know, have no grudge with, and don't even dislike - because their "cultish order" requires it.

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54 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I could not disagree more, and I question your understanding of morality.

I question your understanding of sarcasm. Really do I really need to explain that I wasn't serious?

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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43 minutes ago, zandru said:

Oh, but we're not talking about child draftees - we're talking about men who have voluntarily trained much of their lives to kill other men, and who have long dreamed of doing so. Many of them even take oaths of how honorable and morally good they will be. Like little Bran aspired to. And yes, these guys kill folks they don't know, have no grudge with, and don't even dislike - because their "cultish order" requires it.

You said:

 

19 hours ago, zandru said:

So take any man in an army. When the action starts, his duty is to kill or disable as many of the opposing army as he can. He doesn't know any of them. They haven't done anything to him. But this is okay for him? Same difference.

Not just those who'd be trained much of their lives for this(which is honestly would be the nobles, the Knights), for a career in the military. A lot of  peasant men( males 15+) are drafted to fill a quota. They don't have the option to refuse orders and instead quit to which they'd get set up with a nobleman's wife. They follow orders or they die.  Arya murdered  someone she saw so no reason to die other than to keep in an order whose made it very clear should she ask to simply  they'd set her up with a life of leisure and mundaneness.

Knights when given order to attack group A do so with the excuse of a higher purpose: family, country, they honestly believe they are making a better place.

It's not because Arya is a girl she's being speculated to becoming a psychopath it's her increasing lessening need for  justification for having to kill

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